Here is Cody's stock 150,000 mile 3.0 doing 497 whp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh0S75b6Rwo&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh0S75b6Rwo&feature=plcp
GT37R Startup Video.
- Thread starter EAC
- Start date
Hey, this is all new to me too.
Ideally at one point, I'd like to get where you are.... and that's trapping 130 mph. Where I live, if you don't trap 130 mph, you might as well be trapping 100 mph.
The car is actually faster than that, it is me that is not yet capable of making perfect pass. If I can ever put a complete pass together I am sure that the car will run 10.2 at 135. My best pass ever I was 4/10 ahead of my 10.7 at the 1/8 mile when the car started to bounce so I had to get on the brakes and ran a 11.3 at 90 mph,that is too bad because my 1/8 mile was 6.7 at 105 mph. Maybe oneday I will learn but I dont get to the track much more than 2-3 times a year.Hey, this is all new to me too.
Ideally at one point, I'd like to get where you are.... and that's trapping 130 mph. Where I live, if you don't trap 130 mph, you might as well be trapping 100 mph.
Yeah, the faster you get, the more wild the ride gets. :biggrin:
Can you tell me a little about your turbo specs, I read you said it was a el cheapo 67mm. I'm just curious if it's close to mine.
It's crazy that you put up that much HP at only 14psi, even before the E85.
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I'm happy to hear you are willing to push it. I'm SC and if i was turbo i would make 500whp and not think twice about it. Sure im new here and new to the Nsx. Not new to turbo or honda motors. Its really funny to me the false info here. Alot has changed over the years in technology and tuning. A guy here in Fl was making 713whp and tracking the car on an S2000 motor on C16. Whats blowing up the Nsx and cracking the rings is detonation and not a proper tune. Not 10lbs of boost. Stock head studs and headgaskets can hold plenty of psi. Its the HP the motor makes not the psi that causes failure. Give it a few years as the Nsx changes hands to people that will push it and you will see. The Nsx motor is no different then other Honda motors or any motor. Different motors have weak points. Its funny how a civic motor built cheaply with one cam and tiny parts can hold 18lbs of boost just fine and people think headgaskets let go at 10lbs. Headgaskets let go from pressure and pressure is from detonation. Turbo size is a huge factor. One turbo can make 450whp at 10lbs when another will make 500whp. If a 4 cyclinder S2000 can make 500whp safely which many do why cant a V-6?
I'm happy to hear you are willing to push it. I'm SC and if i was turbo i would make 500whp and not think twice about it. Sure im new here and new to the Nsx. Not new to turbo or honda motors. Its really funny to me the false info here. Alot has changed over the years in technology and tuning. A guy here in Fl was making 713whp and tracking the car on an S2000 motor on C16. Whats blowing up the Nsx and cracking the rings is detonation and not a proper tune. Not 10lbs of boost. Stock head studs and headgaskets can hold plenty of psi. Its the HP the motor makes not the psi that causes failure. Give it a few years as the Nsx changes hands to people that will push it and you will see. The Nsx motor is no different then other Honda motors or any motor. Different motors have weak points. Its funny how a civic motor built cheaply with one cam and tiny parts can hold 18lbs of boost just fine and people think headgaskets let go at 10lbs. Headgaskets let go from pressure and pressure is from detonation. Turbo size is a huge factor. One turbo can make 450whp at 10lbs when another will make 500whp. If a 4 cyclinder S2000 can make 500whp safely which many do why cant a V-6?
I agree, it's amazing how far tuning has advanced over the recent years.
I'm not a tuner, but how, exactly, has tuning "advanced" over the years?
You still shoot for a target AFR, and advance timing as much as possible until you detect your particular pre-detonation frequency with det cans tuned to the bore diameter of your engine.
Nothing has really changed in how a good tuner tunes an engine.
Maybe people are playing it safer in target AFR's or timing, but running too rich is still death to an engine with cylinder washdown. Just takes longer to kill it. Also, it kills cats quicker.
New people on here are quick to knock what the older folks have gone through and experienced before. Sure, you can get 500WHP on a stock C30, but for how long? 400WHP is obviously a safer bet. It all depends how comfortable you feel, and if you can afford a $6-8k rebuild if/when the engine goes.
Sure, I would be willing to push a cheap B-series or S2000 engine a lot more than a C30. I think anyone on this forum would.
Dave
You still shoot for a target AFR, and advance timing as much as possible until you detect your particular pre-detonation frequency with det cans tuned to the bore diameter of your engine.
Nothing has really changed in how a good tuner tunes an engine.
Maybe people are playing it safer in target AFR's or timing, but running too rich is still death to an engine with cylinder washdown. Just takes longer to kill it. Also, it kills cats quicker.
New people on here are quick to knock what the older folks have gone through and experienced before. Sure, you can get 500WHP on a stock C30, but for how long? 400WHP is obviously a safer bet. It all depends how comfortable you feel, and if you can afford a $6-8k rebuild if/when the engine goes.
Sure, I would be willing to push a cheap B-series or S2000 engine a lot more than a C30. I think anyone on this forum would.
Dave
Bingo.
Not all of us are made of money but I was driving a Honda civic my NSX budget would certainly make me feel like I am. 500hp... on a 4cyl? SURE!
With a 10k motor at risk.. my balls are simply not as big
well I guess you guys don't realize making 700+whp is not cheap on any motor. Or building a built motor. Trust me after building 10k Turbo kit, a 10k motor and 5k driveline for a Civic turning the boost up to 32lbs and reving the motor to 10,000 rpms and hoping nothing goes wrong is not any easier then doing to an Nsx. Going fast cost money in any car. I built a Civic because I wanted to. I spent just as much to trap 147mph as most guys. I'm far from rich gentleman. Any 9 second car import especially costs lots of money. Yes its expensive to replace an Nsx motor. I'm not arguing thatBingo.
Not all of us are made of money but I was driving a Honda civic my NSX budget would certainly make me feel like I am. 500hp... on a 4cyl? SURE!
With a 10k motor at risk.. my balls are simply not as big
Sorry, by "tuning", I meant alot more than just AFR and TIMING, although tuning has advanced more over the years with better tuning tools. What has changed over the years are the tools we use, whether it be: better ECU's which allow more advanced and thorough adjustments, more efficient parts, higher octane fuels, E85, anti detonation devices, ignition systems.... the list goes on and on.
Without guys testing/tuning and pushing the limits, we wouldn't see NSX HP numbers slowly increasing like we've seen.
Fun Fun :redface:
Without guys testing/tuning and pushing the limits, we wouldn't see NSX HP numbers slowly increasing like we've seen.
Fun Fun :redface:
I think we can all agree that if a C30/32 block was as easy to find as a K, B, F series block many more NSX owners would be attempting a high HP build.
Part of the reason why i'm pretty darn close to picking up a BRZ. It'll be a lot more dispensable. :redface:
We're not talking about 700HP, we're talking about the difference of a STOCK c-series engine (with OEM head bolts and those cheap paper gaskets like you said earlier) making the difference between 400 and 500WHP.
I felt the need to interject in a friendly, inquisitive sense so as to not disturb our apparently long-running "non-confrontational" and general sense of forum brotherhood we've got going on right now (from Shawn)
The old-timers (I'm not one of them BTW), have been there and done that. Of course, that was back when aftermarket parts were even slimmer pickings and engines/rebuilds were even more expensive. So yes, over time, it became generally established that 400WHP was pretty safe on a stock C-series, even if your tuner was mediocre. Look at the poor guy asking questions in the other thread about how his AEM meth kit was set up by some "tuner." Like anything, even recommended "experts" leave a lot to be desired in some cases. Unfortunately, I have a feeling a lot of NSX owners have had bad tunes in the past from even their recommended "experts," hence the common 400WHP cap on a stock engine.
There was a lot of expertise back in the day. For example, look at this:
http://webpages.charter.net/eddyanm/traces2.html
These are knock traces done a long time ago by a past forum member on their C-series when he did his own MOTEC conversion. Now, these folks really had good engine background, were knowledgeable about tuning, and did their own homework and testing instead of taking some internet advice 'yo and spreading it around as if they're experts.
I've done some of my own tuning and would like to learn more about it with my AEM Series 2. With this new system, knock control is improved, and I even put in new knock sensors on my engine to help increase the knock frequency signal-noise ratio. I expect knock to occur in the 6-7kHz range based on my calcs in this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139892
But will make my own det cans to listen (or find a tuner with the Australian KnockBlock). That, and I will have an EGT sensor in each bank, and MAY buy a sparkplug with a built-in cylinder pressure sensor (I already have a Yokogawa DAS) so I can move it around and look at actual cylinder pressure. The BW EFR turbos even have options to measure turbine RPM - that would be cool for my twin turbo setup if I don't do twin Aerochargers.
So, the bottom line is that if you don't have the funds to fix yours or others mistakes when tuning your engine, do REAL research and try to to educate yourself as much as possible about what's going on. That will help you narrow down and weed out potential tuners when it comes time to tune your engine :smile:
Sorry for the off-topic. That's an awesome startup video EAC. What does your exhaust system look like underneath?
Oh, maybe you missed it, but I'm doing a build right now in the DIY section:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154927
You're right, it's not cheap. Even for my "reliable" 500WHP goal.
Dave
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