Gauge problem after installing SOS gauge rings and different Speedo

[MvM]

I have a problem after changing some parts on my gauge cluster.

Before my current NA2 1998 3.2 6-speed NSX-T I had a NA1 3.0 manual 5-speed 1994 NSX.
This NSX was fitted with a carbon trim cluster panel as well as a 320 kph speedometer whereas the standard European NSX have a speedo that only goes up to 280 kph.
I had als ordered a set of those nice and shiny SOS Gauge Cluster Rings.

Today, I took out the gauge cluster from my NSX
I replaced the cluster panel with that om my old car. Nothing strange there.
I removed the OEM plastic cluster rings and the put in the SOS aluminum cluster rings.
I also swapped the 280kph speedo with the 320kph speedo from my old 1994 NSX.
This is a relatively simple swap. After removing several small bolts in the rear of the gauge cluster unit, you can simply lift the speedo out of the cluser unit and replace it with another one. Which is exactly what I did.

Then, I put everything back in the car.

Now, however, I have a problem.

When I start the car, both my oil pressure gauge and the temperature gauge immediately go up to their highest mark. For the record, these have NOT been replace and have always been working just fine.
Fuel gauge and Volt meter seem to be working find. Tacho also.
Also, I noticed that my speedo gives a speed about 4-7 kph LOWER than my actual speed is according to my navigation unit. So, when I am driving 100 on the speedo, my GPS tells me I am doing 105. 110khh is actually 115 and 120kph on the speedo is actually 127kph.

So, I have two questions.

Is there a way to calibrate my speedo? (not terribly important, but would be nice).
HOW can I fix my oil pressure and temperature gauge so they will give me the right values.

EDIT:
Does any one know if a NA1 1994 gauge cluster unit is compatible with a NA2 1998 gauge cluster unit ??

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

gauges usualy go all the way to the top if they are getting an incorrect signal...

you may have plugged someting in worng

my .02

 

[MvM]

gauges usualy go all the way to the top if they are getting an incorrect signal...

you may have plugged someting in worng

Thanks for the quick response.
However, I believe there is not very much to plug wrong.
There are only four (4) connectors under the gauge.
Two big green ones directly to the gauge cluster itself, one on each side.
Two smaller ones for the headlight switch and instrument panel lighting (left) and the TCS switch on the right.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Thanks for the quick response.
However, I believe there is not very much to plug wrong.
There are only four (4) connectors under the gauge.
Two big green ones directly to the gauge cluster itself, one on each side.
Two smaller ones for the headlight switch and instrument panel lighting (left) and the TCS switch on the right.

look from the gauge to the wafer wiring

 

[shawn110975]

if you took the gauges out of the cluster all 4 of them. if you look on the back of them there is this Hair like wire that coils around the magnet motor that actually makes the needles move. when you re-install them and torx the screws down to much they snap the wires in the magnets coiled wire. I have doen this before in another honda.

I am not saying thats your issue but if your gonna take it apart again to check everything make sure to look at the copper wire coiled around the back of the needles. you will see what i am talking about.

when I re-install these delicate items I only torx them down very snug. never tight as hell. they will snap.

now if you torxed them down real hard then when you check the soilder marks that the bolts touch to make the connection to the board you will see you screwed them down and taken off the soilder

now they are not making a proper connection. a steel screw isnt friendly to soilder.

since it worked before you did this thats my only advice.

soilder repair is easy but you need to take you time and make it perfect.

 

[R13]

On the speedo calibration:

Aftermarket wheels, or stock wheels & tire sizes? (a slightly larger-than-stock diameter wheel/tire combo could easily throw the speedo off by a few %)

Also, did your old speedo agree exactly with your GPS?

 

[MvM]

if you took the gauges out of the cluster all 4 of them. if you look on the back of them there is this Hair like wire that coils around the magnet motor that actually makes the needles move. when you re-install them and torx the screws down to much they snap the wires in the magnets coiled wire. I have doen this before in another honda.

I am not saying thats your issue but if your gonna take it apart again to check everything make sure to look at the copper wire coiled around the back of the needles. you will see what i am talking about.

when I re-install these delicate items I only torx them down very snug. never tight as hell. they will snap.

now if you torxed them down real hard then when you check the soilder marks that the bolts touch to make the connection to the board you will see you screwed them down and taken off the soilder

now they are not making a proper connection. a steel screw isnt friendly to soilder.

since it worked before you did this thats my only advice.

soilder repair is easy but you need to take you time and make it perfect.

Thanks for the explanation.

I have one of the gauge from my previous NSX now in my hand.
On the front I only see the gauge plate and the red needle.
On the rear, you have silver colored round cover which covers the copper coil.
Around this cover is a relatively thick wire with a few resistors.
You can take the cover off because it is not fixed.
Underneath there is the copper coil from which two very thin strands are attached to one of the fixtures.

Are these the strands you are talking about ??

For the record, I only replaced the speedo unit, that is, I took the complate unit out from my old cluster unit and inserted it into the cluser of my current NSX. I did NOT take the gauge apart in any way.
The ONLY screws I removed where those which attach the gauge to the gauge housing from the rear.

 

[MvM]

Aftermarket wheels, or stock wheels & tire sizes? (a slightly larger-than-stock diameter wheel/tire combo could easily throw the speedo off by a few %)

Also, did your old speedo agree exactly with your GPS?

I am running 265/35 ZR18 rear tires.
The original speedo was right on the mark with only a 2-4 kph ABOVE the actual (GPS) speed. In my 1994 NSX this same 320kph speedo gave exactly the same results.

What I did this time was to just replace the speedo gauge into the original gauge cluster unit of my 1998 NSX.
Another idea might be to replace the whole 1998 cluster with that of my 1994 NSX.
However, I am not sure that the 1994 cluster is the same as the 1998 one, so I choose to keep the original 1998 cluster because of this.

 

[shawn110975]

yeah those are the strands of wire I was talking about. but if they are not broke or snapped then it maybe something else you missed.

sorry i couldnt help more.

 

[R13]

I am running 265/35 ZR18 rear tires.
The original speedo was right on the mark with only a 2-4 kph ABOVE the actual (GPS) speed. In my 1994 NSX this same 320kph speedo gave exactly the same results.

What I did this time was to just replace the speedo gauge into the original gauge cluster unit of my 1998 NSX.
Another idea might be to replace the whole 1998 cluster with that of my 1994 NSX.
However, I am not sure that the 1994 cluster is the same as the 1998 one, so I choose to keep the original 1998 cluster because of this.

That's backwards from how it should go. Taller tires should make the speedo read low by a small % (it reads revolutions, and larger diameter = same speed with fewer wheel/diff revolutions). So maybe the new one is actually better calibrate than the old one. If the old one was a little optimistic, then the change from the taller tires might have just brought it in spec......oh well, I'm just spit-balling here.

 

[greenberet]

If you’re now going about 5-6% faster than your speedometer says and were going about 2% slower than the speedometer said before, you’re now going about 7-8% faster at an indicated 100-120 kmh than you were before. The gear ratios in the six-speed transmission are such that you should be traveling 7.5% faster in top gear than you were with the five-speed. So maybe the speedometer just needs to be recalibrated for a six-speed instead of for a five-speed. You’d have to check exactly where the speed sensor takes its signal to see whether that is correct, but it might be. It would be interesting whether people who have carried out a five to six-speed transmission conversion while keeping the same speedometer have experienced the same issue. If it’s just a matter of calibration, here are some instructions: http://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Speedometer_Calibration

In the Service Manual, it states that if the oil pressure and coolant temperature gauge pointers don’t swing at all, you should check whether there is an “open” in the wiring. Since your pointers swing all the way, maybe you have the opposite. Since all you did was open up the instrument cluster, the issue should be in there somewhere.

Best of luck and please post the solution when you find it!

 

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

also think that maybe the signals flowing through the wires are different comparing the OBDI (your old NA1) and the OBDII (your current NA2). That may influenced the little gauges you didn't mess with...

... really don't have a clue, but i installed the NA2 NSX-R gauge cluster pods in my NA1 gauge housing, using my OEM NA1 back circuit and everything works fine.... although i complain pretty much in the opposite way than you do about the shown speed... the NSX-R speedo shows MORE speed than my OLD NA1 speedo, and also RPM... like this:

OLD NA1 - 150km/h
NEW NSX-R - 160km/h

OLD NA1 cut off at 8050rpms
NEW NSX-R cut off at 8500rpms

there are small blue adjusters in the electronic circuit in the back, that Detlef told me are just for this: calibrating needle errors, but i didn't want to mess with them.
Here they are:


HERE you can find photos i took when i swapped the gauges

and in MY BUILD THREAD you can read in post #14 the details of the swap

hope that i helped in some way.

Nuno

 

[A_J]

Could it be different speed sensors on 5 and 6 gear transmissions?

Part 12 on the attached drawing:

 

[xory72]

I have a problem after changing some parts on my gauge cluster.

Before my current NA2 1998 3.2 6-speed NSX-T I had a NA1 3.0 manual 5-speed 1994 NSX.
This NSX was fitted with a carbon trim cluster panel as well as a 320 kph speedometer whereas the standard European NSX have a speedo that only goes up to 280 kph.
I had als ordered a set of those nice and shiny SOS Gauge Cluster Rings.

Today, I took out the gauge cluster from my NSX
I replaced the cluster panel with that om my old car. Nothing strange there.
I removed the OEM plastic cluster rings and the put in the SOS aluminum cluster rings.
I also swapped the 280kph speedo with the 320kph speedo from my old 1994 NSX.
This is a relatively simple swap. After removing several small bolts in the rear of the gauge cluster unit, you can simply lift the speedo out of the cluser unit and replace it with another one. Which is exactly what I did.

Is there a way to calibrate my speedo? (not terribly important, but would be nice).
HOW can I fix my oil pressure and temperature gauge so they will give me the right values.

EDIT:
Does any one know if a NA1 1994 gauge cluster unit is compatible with a NA2 1998 gauge cluster unit ??

MvM,

I think I can solve your problem for you.

There are three differnt guage clusters for the NSX! Most people do not know this.
1 for 91-94
1 for 95,96
1 for 97-05.

Honda changed the pin out of the wiring harness which also meant they changed the circuit traces in the cluster to match. I am not sure why but my guess is OBDII.

I know this as I had done the S2000 cluster conversion and through the R&D stanges (many of them) I had all three service manuals (91-94 / 95-96 and 97+) to figure out wire pin outs etc. and sure enough ... different pin outs on the wiring harness.

So ... if you are using a 91-94 cluster in your 98 car ... it will not work. Put your 98 cluster back in and I bet everything is fine.

The electonic circuit card is the KEY. Because the traces are different and lead to different grounding and power spots for the guages.

Good luck and I hope this helps. If I am out in left feild, please someone let me know.

 

[A_J]

What you are saying could well be the cause even if he only changed the speedo from his old cluster to his new one. If the speedo connects to one wrong pin in the back it could disrupt/mess up the signals to the other gauges.

I would take out the 320km/h speedo and compare it to the 98 version, maybe the pin layout is different there as well if the main board on the cluster is different.

MvM,

I think I can solve your problem for you.

There are three differnt guage clusters for the NSX! Most people do not know this.
1 for 91-94
1 for 95,96
1 for 97-05.

Honda changed the pin out of the wiring harness which also meant they changed the circuit traces in the cluster to match. I am not sure why but my guess is OBDII.

I know this as I had done the S2000 cluster conversion and through the R&D stanges (many of them) I had all three service manuals to figure out wire inps outs etc. and sure enough ... different pin outs on the wiring harness.

So ... if you are using a 91-94 cluster in your 98 car ... it will not work. Put your 98 cluster back in and I bet everything is fine.

The electonic circuit card is the KEY. Because the traces are different and lead to different grounding and power spots for the guages.

Good luck and I hope this helps. If I am out in left feild, please someone let me know.

 

[Hagasan]

xory72 beat me too a reply. I was also going to say put the old one back in first. It can be easy to get side-tracked and chase faults that aren't there.

I have an 04 cluster and I know it is different from the 95-95 I have in my car.

Putting your old cluster should see your minor gauges working too. I very much doubt you have any fault on the car, just incompatible parts without modifications to make them work...

 

[MvM]

First, thank you for all the technical input from every one.
It is nice to know that there is so much NSX knowledge out there to help us simple guys out.

Just to be clear for everybody, I specifically did NOT change the cluster.
All I did was change the Speedo. I suspected that there might have been some changes over the years, so I decided not to change the cluster but only change the speedo.

I took out the cluster out and took another look at it.
And yes, STMPO and shawn110975 were correct.
One of those tiny wires of the coil was indeed broken.
I replaced the Oil-Pressure/Temperature-unit with the one from my 1994-cluster and both gauges are working fine now.

The speedo still reads a little low. I followed the speedo adjustment instructions that was posted but it is till reading low.
Since I had (have) no idea how much turning the pot meter would adjust the reading, I only turned the meter only slightly, but I will have to do that again.

So, I have to take out the cluster again for some new adjustments.

One other thing though.
I replace both wedge bulb lights with LEDs because I wanted to cluster lighting to be a little brighter in the dark but that doesn't work very well.
LED-lights are much more focused in their throw and now I have more light on one side than on the other.
I have some incandescent bulbs that have a higher light temperature rating (the match the color of my Xenon-headlights) and will try those next.

 

[UnhuZ]

Hi,

One other thing though.
I replace both wedge bulb lights with LEDs because I wanted to cluster lighting to be a little brighter in the dark but that doesn't work very well.
LED-lights are much more focused in their throw and now I have more light on one side than on the other.
I have some incandescent bulbs that have a higher light temperature rating (the match the color of my Xenon-headlights) and will try those next.

if you sand the LED all arround, there will be less focus of the light... it was something that comtec recommended in his thread to update the parking lights with LED bulbs... try that :wink:

Thanks,
Nuno

 

[stevenlee]

First, thank you for all the technical input from every one.
It is nice to know that there is so much NSX knowledge out there to help us simple guys out.

Just to be clear for everybody, I specifically did NOT change the cluster.
All I did was change the Speedo. I suspected that there might have been some changes over the years, so I decided not to change the cluster but only change the speedo.

I took out the cluster out and took another look at it.
And yes, STMPO and shawn110975 were correct.
One of those tiny wires of the coil was indeed broken.
I replaced the Oil-Pressure/Temperature-unit with the one from my 1994-cluster and both gauges are working fine now.

The speedo still reads a little low. I followed the speedo adjustment instructions that was posted but it is till reading low.
Since I had (have) no idea how much turning the pot meter would adjust the reading, I only turned the meter only slightly, but I will have to do that again.

So, I have to take out the cluster again for some new adjustments.

One other thing though.
I replace both wedge bulb lights with LEDs because I wanted to cluster lighting to be a little brighter in the dark but that doesn't work very well.
LED-lights are much more focused in their throw and now I have more light on one side than on the other.
I have some incandescent bulbs that have a higher light temperature rating (the match the color of my Xenon-headlights) and will try those next.

To recalibrate the Speedo, I loosened the gauge cluster and let rest on a towel on my steering column while I adjusted the blue pot with a small scrrew driver. Then I did speed check drives using 2 different GPS units for control speed. After making 2 or 3 fine tuning adjustments my Speedo matched the GPS speeds perfectly. I'm running 295-35-18 rear tires. Once you have the gauge cluster loose, it is very easy to do.

 

[rsevo6]

MvM,

I think I can solve your problem for you.

There are three differnt guage clusters for the NSX! Most people do not know this.
1 for 91-94
1 for 95,96
1 for 97-05.

Honda changed the pin out of the wiring harness which also meant they changed the circuit traces in the cluster to match. I am not sure why but my guess is OBDII.

I know this as I had done the S2000 cluster conversion and through the R&D stanges (many of them) I had all three service manuals (91-94 / 95-96 and 97+) to figure out wire pin outs etc. and sure enough ... different pin outs on the wiring harness.

So ... if you are using a 91-94 cluster in your 98 car ... it will not work. Put your 98 cluster back in and I bet everything is fine.

The electonic circuit card is the KEY. Because the traces are different and lead to different grounding and power spots for the guages.

Good luck and I hope this helps. If I am out in left feild, please someone let me know.

Even though this probably has nothing to do with solving MvM's problems, I might add that the European spec NSX has some other specs than the US version:
In Europe, the NSX was changed to OBII in 2001, so a lot later than in the US, so even though a '98 EU-spec like MvM's has the 3.2 engine and 6 speed, resembles the US '98 version a lot, it is however still OBDI

 

[NSXDRYVER]

ok guys sorry but i'm confused..
are you talking the little blue potentiometers that are facing you in Unhuz's post 12# pic?
or are you talking the little units that you can just barely see through the opening that the screwdriver is making? (2 on each side of the screwdriver),in the same pic.
i read the Wiki,but that really wasn't helpful
Gary~