Frustrated Buyer and Seller. (need advice)

[Ski_Banker]

I guess I'm in the minority with NSXstacy here:

1. GPW DID start this thread and related his own interpretation of events. Why on earth would anyone do that if they did not honestly believe them to be true (perhaps distorted, but still true).

2. They are used wheels and look pretty good to me. Agreed they aren't "flawless" but I doubt that the buyer would be anywhere near this nitpicky if he wasn't so upset about the overall transaction. Lugnut scratches - come on, get real. The ebay ad certainly could have been better, and should have included pics, but still. Maybe GPW should pay to have them refinished for the buyer.

3. I think GPW did offer to rescind the transaction earlier but it wasn't accepted by the buyer (although he hadn't seen the wheels yet I guess).


It is certainly a poor transaction, and it seems that both sides could have handled it better, but to *threaten* a guy over this "S cal is small world" is extreme. If, after trying to make the deal work, GPW is getting lambasted as an ebay fraudster, I would probably do the same and say in the word of Eric Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home" Fact is, only 2 people here know what really took place either in miscommunication or genuine dishonesty.

My $.02.

 

[jag]

I did offer to keep the wheels if he paid for refinishing. He told me to get a price in my area to have them refinished. I check my area along with companies on the east and west coast and found the average cost was between $130-175. per wheel plus shipping. I gave him that option and he refused.

I am not saying the wheels have no value. I'm saying I would not have purchased them for the price I paid if I knew they were not "flawless". I could have easily purchase flawed wheels for less and had them refinished. Paying top dollar in the used market and then having to pay to have them refinished is not what was presented nor agreed upon.

I did not purchase them off ebay... I'm not sure where you got that from. I purchased them right here off NSXPrime.

At the time I was dealing with Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] and he offered to refund the money, I had not received the wheels and was "trying to be accomodating" to someone who had not done what they promised. Had I known that I was being lied to AND that the wheels weren't as described, I would have, and in hind site should have, requested my money back.

You are now starting to sound like Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] who thinks I should be satisfied that I even got the wheels regardless of how long it took and should also be happy that they aren't more damaged than what they are.

Where is it stated that a buyer should be satisfied with something completely different than what he purchased. Again, if the ad says
"I have a set of FLAWLESS MINT Solaris Silver W/ Center caps 16/17 Inch stock NSX Wheels. There is not a single scratch, chip or any flaw to them at all", should I expect anything different? Regardless of how you feel about the scratches around the lug nuts, Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] should have either said that there were scratches or at the very least not said "There is not a single scratch, chip or any flaw to them at all." Anything other than that is a lie and dishonest.

I guess I'm in the minority with NSXstacy here:

1. GPW DID start this thread and related his own interpretation of events. Why on earth would anyone do that if they did not honestly believe them to be true (perhaps distorted, but still true).

2. They are used wheels and look pretty good to me. Agreed they aren't "flawless" but I doubt that the buyer would be anywhere near this nitpicky if he wasn't so upset about the overall transaction. Lugnut scratches - come on, get real. The ebay ad certainly could have been better, and should have included pics, but still. Maybe GPW should pay to have them refinished for the buyer.

3. I think GPW did offer to rescind the transaction earlier but it wasn't accepted by the buyer (although he hadn't seen the wheels yet I guess).


It is certainly a poor transaction, and it seems that both sides could have handled it better, but to *threaten* a guy over this "S cal is small world" is extreme. If, after trying to make the deal work, GPW is getting lambasted as an ebay fraudster, I would probably do the same and say in the word of Eric Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home" Fact is, only 2 people here know what really took place either in miscommunication or genuine dishonesty.

My $.02.

 

[91 X]

moral of the story is never ever ever buy "flawless mint" USED rims for that much cake without inspecting them in person:frown: If there not in your neck of the woods, then just pass on them or buy with low expectations of condition.

not sticking up for the seller, but you can't expect USED rims to be FLAWLESS MINT, unless of coarse they were never on the car to begin with and bubble wrapped:redface:

good luck...

 

[comquat1]

moral of the story is never ever ever buy "flawless mint" USED rims for that much cake without inspecting them in person:frown: If there not in your neck of the woods, then just pass on them or buy with low expectations of condition.

not sticking up for the seller, but you can't expect USED rims to be FLAWLESS MINT, unless of coarse they were never on the car to begin with and bubble wrapped:redface:

good luck...

I don't know about what you said because this winter I did the exact thing. I bought a full set of SSR integrals that were indeed flawless with no issues. I think Jag's getting railroaded by this seller who's falling back on a lame excuse that he spent the money already and can't offer a refund. I would say jag needs to expect to pay shipping back but should be able to get the balance of his money back on this deal as he's not satisfied with the condition. Unfortunately Andy doesn't care about his reputation otherwise he'd do the right thing.

 

[91 X]

I don't know about what you said because this winter I did the exact thing. I bought a full set of SSR integrals that were indeed flawless with no issues. I think Jag's getting railroaded by this seller who's falling back on a lame excuse that he spent the money already and can't offer a refund. I would say jag needs to expect to pay shipping back but should be able to get the balance of his money back on this deal as he's not satisfied with the condition. Unfortunately Andy doesn't care about his reputation otherwise he'd do the right thing.

I agree dude got screwed and should be able to get his money back if not satisfied, but my point was that it's not a good idea to buy over the internet(not personally inspected), used items and expect "flawlessness" I meam pits and lugnut scratches it's impossible not to get some of those on that type of rim...I think the buyer would have been satisfied with the condition if he didn't get such a run around from the seller in the process.....sour grapes, imho

 

[comquat1]

I think the buyer would have been satisfied with the condition if he didn't get such a run around from the seller in the process.....sour grapes, imho

Yes, if he got a different price. He paid a premium for rims that (just through my bad memory) usually go for under $1500/set.

 

[jag]

I was told by Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] that he just had the wheels professionally refinished. I have seen wheels refinished by Robert Woods and other wheel refinishers and they are as good if not better than new. These wheels either weren't refinished or they were done very cheaply.

Here is a picture of how the wheels showed up when they were delivered.

moral of the story is never ever ever buy "flawless mint" USED rims for that much cake without inspecting them in person:frown: If there not in your neck of the woods, then just pass on them or buy with low expectations of condition.

not sticking up for the seller, but you can't expect USED rims to be FLAWLESS MINT, unless of coarse they were never on the car to begin with and bubble wrapped:redface:

good luck...

 

[Ski_Banker]

I did offer to keep the wheels if he paid for refinishing. He told me to get a price in my area to have them refinished. I check my area along with companies on the east and west coast and found the average cost was between $130-175. per wheel plus shipping. I gave him that option and he refused.

I am not saying the wheels have no value. I'm saying I would not have purchased them for the price I paid if I knew they were not "flawless". I could have easily purchase flawed wheels for less and had them refinished. Paying top dollar in the used market and then having to pay to have them refinished is not what was presented nor agreed upon.

I did not purchase them off ebay... I'm not sure where you got that from. I purchased them right here off NSXPrime.

At the time I was dealing with Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] and he offered to refund the money, I had not received the wheels and was "trying to be accomodating" to someone who had not done what they promised. Had I known that I was being lied to AND that the wheels weren't as described, I would have, and in hind site should have, requested my money back.

You are now starting to sound like Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] who thinks I should be satisfied that I even got the wheels regardless of how long it took and should also be happy that they aren't more damaged than what they are.

Where is it stated that a buyer should be satisfied with something completely different than what he purchased. Again, if the ad says
"I have a set of FLAWLESS MINT Solaris Silver W/ Center caps 16/17 Inch stock NSX Wheels. There is not a single scratch, chip or any flaw to them at all", should I expect anything different? Regardless of how you feel about the scratches around the lug nuts, Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] should have either said that there were scratches or at the very least not said "There is not a single scratch, chip or any flaw to them at all." Anything other than that is a lie and dishonest.

Hey, I'm certainly not defending the seller here. Just saying that there are 2 sides to the story (the transaction, not the quality of the rims - that is self evident). Given all this reputation smearing, I'd be amazed and for what its worth, disappointed, if GPW DIDN'T pay to have them refinished. That solves the problem going forward. I see your point about paying a premium for flawless rims if cheaper ones are available that you could refinish on your own. Don't know where I got "Ebay" from - just assumed I guess.

Someone suggested that this thread was a "pre-emptive strike" against future publicity - highly doubt that, coming from someone who can't manage his money well enough to deal with the transaction appropriately.

 

[jag]

Someone suggested that this thread was a "pre-emptive strike" against future publicity - highly doubt that, coming from someone who can't manage his money well enough to deal with the transaction appropriately.

If you read his original post, you will see that he says "Anyhow, Now he is calling and threatining me with slander of my name and making a complaint through paypal."

I did not threaten him. Nor did I ever say I'd slander him. After he refused to stand behind his promises, I told him I would let others on NSXPrime know the truth of what was happening. Funny thing, within a day of that conversation, he started this post. I did not reply because I was unaware of it being started and don't normally read the "off topic" section of the forum. I only found it when I researched his posts from his profile. There is no doubt in my mind that it was pre-emptive and he was looking to garner support for "his side" of the story. I too believe that there is always two sides to every story. I think everyone here can read this thread and is entitled to their own opinion. All I ask is that you put yourself in my place and judge what you would do if this happened to you.

 

[sjones]

after reading this whole thread... my opinion is that a "FULL REFUND" is the only appropriate thing to do. Send the wheels back to the seller. They were not as described in the forsale ad.

 

[zahntech]

Here are a few random thoughts...

Are the wheels "flawless mint"? Not exactly... but it appears that the claim of "no chips scratches gouges" is true. IMHO scratches on the sides surrounding the lug holes are typical of used wheels and not relevant to condition. I would probably have mentioned the pitting, but OTOH, these wheels look (based on the photos) to be about as good as you're ever likely to get for used wheels, almost all of which have chips or scratches, unlike these. The simple fact is, most used wheels are not perfect, even when they're described as "excellent condition" or "mint". If you want wheels that are absolutely perfect, without even the slightest flaw, you're not likely to find that in a used set. Buy new. Or buy in person, when you can inspect them before finalizing the transaction. Sorry if this upsets others who may not agree, but (as a fairly experienced buyer and seller of used wheels) that's what I believe.
QUOTE]


flaw·less ( P ) Pronunciation Key (flôls)
adj.
Being entirely without flaw or imperfection. See Synonyms at perfect



Oh come on Ken...the definition of "Flawless" is very precise..there is nothing left up to "interpretation"....and the Idea that you can't buy used wheels that are not screwed up is ridicules...there are people that take very meticulous care of their possessions and then sell them used at some point.

Andy or Erik whoever GPW is, misrepresented the items for sale, that's a fact.

 

[jalnjr]

andy:

you worked really hard for your negative feedback. deal with it.

 

[awsomr1]

First I would like to say sorry if my last command about "So. Cal is a small community to hide from" comes across to those of you as a threat. Although it was not my intention to threat GPW but I guess it does sounds like it. For that I do apologist.

"Extreme" or "Wenzels", I do not think so, if someone took my money and ship me item not as listed and refuse to make it good, wether thru refund or refinish in this case, I would be piss and wish there is something I can do legally. File a claim in the local small claim court will cost more than what its worth.

That statement is intented for GPW to reply to this thread, he started it, now that the complaining/defending(depands on which way you look at this) party is replying, I think he should at least make his defence, is he taking the fifth? Or since this thead is no longer going in his favor he quits.

Either way, Jag, next time if you are buying something in So. Ca, give me a call, I will look them over for you. I'm sure we are all welling to assist each other in this community.

Once again I do apologist if my last post sounds too much like a threat.

 

[VampNSXX]

I am on the buyers side 100%, to me flawless is flawless. On my wheel I have no scratches like the wheels the buyer received but just the fact that there is a little chip on the inside of the wheel that you will never see I would say excellent condition not flawless. I am very picky when it come to stuff like that. that is why when I buy stuff I want to see it first to make sure it is actually in the condition they say.

This really pisses me of when someone buys something and gets something else.

 

[donwon]

Yikes, This is ugly, sorry to hear about this.

A very good idea to have a local 3rd party check it out. I hope it gets resolved.

 

[BadCarma]

I swear I saw these on ebay while this all took place and the reason I believe that is I put them in my watch list and have not been back to ebay since,I will have to check that out. I am not 100% on this but I have a very good memory

 

[schuey1010]

Funny how he stop posting on this thread after Jag started to respond.

Exactly what I was thinking. Are you still sticking with your story??

Flawless means just that. Many people have a distorted sense of the word flawless. I nearly bought a flawless 2001 NSX from Colorado too. Good thing.

Those wheels, although in the buyers mind flawless, are not what he paid for!

 

[Dtrigg]

Think he'll be a NSXPO next year?

 

[Stick-e-rice]

Never purchase anything without detailed pictures. I think fault begins here. In a return situation both should lose money, buyer pays return shipping and seller refunds but no fees; which I think is the best solution for this case.

Now that this issue is public, makes the resolution that much more difficult as both are bitter. I don't think bringing this forth on the forum then trying to accomplish a resolution was a good idea. It seems the object was for hurtful purposes, which was accomplished here.

I think GPW should be given a chance to make right (lets not assign blame on anyone yet) because the wheels were in pretty good condition although not flawless. If he needs time then maybe Jag will be kind enough to give him some additional time for the refund. And Jag can ship them back to him for a full refund but no fees. Both lose a little bit of money and should we just say lesson learned on both ends here.

And we can move on to more pleasant things like the next NSX event. I have still yet to attend one and drive the NSX

Just my 2 cents, but what do I know, hehe.

 

[jag]

It seems the object was for hurtful purposes, which was accomplished here.

The object here was for truthful purposes.

Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] started this thread and made claims that were not true. I have given him different options of working through this prior to EVER responding on this thread. All were refused. I even told him in advance that I would post here as a consequence of his actions and did not post for two weeks. [He started this thread on Mar 3, I did not post anything about it until Mar 16th] Only after I found that he had started this thread did I respond.

My intent for responding was to tell the truth and to inform others of my experience so that they would not have the same experience. It is a sad day when people do not have to take responsibility for their actions.

 

[jag]

I think GPW should be given a chance to make right (lets not assign blame on anyone yet) because the wheels were in pretty good condition although not flawless.

As I stated in the previous post, it's a sad day when people don't have to take responsibility for their actions. I did not pay $1725. for "pretty good" wheels. I paid $1725. for wheels "without a single scratch, chip or any flaw to them at all" as stated in his ad. I do not want these wheels [even though you think they are "pretty good"] on my car because of the imperfections so what should I do with them?

If he needs time then maybe Jag will be kind enough to give him some additional time for the refund. And Jag can ship them back to him for a full refund but no fees. Both lose a little bit of money and should we just say lesson learned on both ends here.

As I've stated previously, if Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] wants to pay for refinishing the wheels to flawless or take the wheels back even if I had to pay for shipping, I would work with him. I've even said I would work with him if he couldn't repay me right away. All offers have been refused.

 

[comquat1]

So what will he offer to do for you to make things right?

Or is he telling you to stick it? I'm not knowledgeable on this subject, but could this be classified as mail fraud? Are you thinking of pressing charges in small claims court at all?

 

[jag]

So what will he offer to do for you to make things right?

Or is he telling you to stick it? I'm not knowledgeable on this subject, but could this be classified as mail fraud? Are you thinking of pressing charges in small claims court at all?

At this point he will offer nothing. He says I'm on my own.
I have not considered other options at this time.

 

[nsxtasy]

if Andy Freeman [GPW_NSX] wants to pay for refinishing the wheels to flawless or take the wheels back even if I had to pay for shipping, I would work with him. I've even said I would work with him if he couldn't repay me right away.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Andy, I assume you posted here because you wanted to get second (and third and fourth) opinions on what is fair. You've gotten that now. Are you ready to do the right thing, or are you going to continue to maintain your silence, which makes you seem even more guilty? We're all watching...

 

[Stick-e-rice]

Or some additional cash from Andy might work also. I sold my 16/17, although they were JDM with H centers and gunmetal finish for $1100 plus shipping. Wheel had minor curb rash on one wheel and tiny nicks all over on the 4 wheels if you really stare at it but overall above average condition.

I'd say $1100-$1300 is market value so maybe partial refund to Jag if that is acceptable to Jag.

That might work better if money is the issue on Andy's side, i'm sure he can come up with 300-700 with some time depending on how much Jag paid for the wheels. Being short of money is nothing to be ashamed about, I'm always broke:biggrin:

Hope this gets resolved and both parties are happy. I think the worse has past so hopefully Andy will reply so at least a resolution plan is in place to move forward.

I think once Andy replies, this thread will get closed and we will all forget this in a few months.

A respectable member here on Prime might just act as an impartial mediator if both agrees. Just another idea. Then an email can be sent to Andy and be handled outside of this site where it is less public.

Best of luck.:smile: