Friendly run with a 930

[tucsonsx]

paulviriyapan,

Just reading your post gave me a seizure; the last thing I remember was 2.7 overheating - changing the 5 blade fan for an 11 blade fan with the small pulley, installing the front radiator style oil cooler, the muscles tightening as I approached a traffic jam while my wife asked why we had to turn the ac off while the Sentra next to us didn't...........

 

[911-NSX]

It was probably a wide body. Unless you have some mods my old 88 N/A 911 would keep up with your NSX. If the 930 had mods it would eat an NSX up. Anyone that knows cars would not even try to argue that. Either way, at least you feel better. Just do not put up your title on a real 930 next time. I love the NSX, but if I wanted speed the 930 would be my choice. I am not bashing so do not get defensive. I love both cars, but I am just putting in my 2 cents.

 

[paulviriyapan]

Without trying to ruffle your feathers, but I highly doubt that a stock N/A '88 911 Carrera (3.2 liters, G50 tranny) could keep up with an NSX. When I drove the 993 I thought it was roughly on par with the NSX (I didn't drag race the two cars against each other so I don't know for sure). Let's put it this way, while driving the 993, I never thought "whoa this is faster than the NSX". I KNOW the 993 is faster than a '88 Carrera.

My brother and myself have been avid Porsche fans for a while, so I don't want to knock the car. But I think that the n/a 911 isn't really that fast a car out of the box. I thought my 2.7 liter was a dog, the SC 3.0 liter only had 180 h.p. for approximately the same weight as an NSX. So when you say a 3.2 carrera can keep up with an NSX I don't really see how, because it doesn't approach the same h.p. to weight ratio as the NSX.

When you're talking about the 930 turbo, that's a different car. Still I don't think that an early 930 can outrun an NSX out of the box. When you are talking about the standards for a late 70's, the porsche 930 was fast, but by today's standards, not so much so. Of course, that doesn't take into considerations the mods made to the cars.

 

[spartan2-3]

Sorry 911-NSX but I have to agree with Paulviriyapan, stock for stock there is no way an 88 N/A Carrera would be in par with an NSX.

Maybe it was a widebody but to see the stock dual tip exhaust and hear the Turbo whine was probably my imagination

One thing for sure he was NOT a "Porcupine"

This is exactly what it looked like color and everything.

 

[911-NSX]

I did not say my car could beat an NSX, I said it would keep up with one. I also did not state my car was stock. Stock a NSX would beat a 88 911 by about the same amount a 930 would beat an NSX. From a roll favers the 930 unless he did not downshift. That is possible. Without a downshift you would pull on a 930, but when that turbo kicks in, he would show you tail lights. NSX's are not drag cars. They are not meant to be. If you drive one as a drag car you will be spending some good coin on clutches. It is very hard to find a stock 930, but you may have ran into one. With the turbo upgrade they will beat most cars on the street. Again, I am looking at the NSX as one of my possible options this spring so obviously I love the car, I just do not think it would take a 930 with same skill drivers.

 

[NSX/MR2]

I am one of those guys that willing to spend money on clutches for the NSX, 3 in one year. Have raced against lots of car, and I say that stock for stock, short of a 993TT, 996TT, GT2, Gt3 and a few specialized Porsches out there (not readily available,) the NSX will torch the 930 gladly. Remember, the NSX is not slow in stock form at all (it is faster than a C5, M3, NA 996,) quite a few have broke into the 12s range. Do a search regarding acceleration on the NSX around here. Also, visit the video gallery.

 

[paulviriyapan]

911-NSX, I think the problem that you are going to run into here is that alot of NSX owners (including myself) were previous 911 owners, so you're dealing with people who are readily familiar with what a 911 can and cannot do. I still like the 911, and if it were not for the fact that my car (sadly) caught on fire, I would still have it. However, with all due respect to someone who has good taste in cars, you are incorrect.

Firstly, in regards to your comment about modding your n/a 911 carrera, I am unaware of what such modifications could be. While we NSX'ers bitch and moan about the cost and lack of aftermarket performance enhancements, I know that the situation is even worse for a 911 owner. Like I said previously, most of the mods out there are to keep the car together, not to make it go faster. The only effective mods for a 911 owner are engine swaps. Other than that, there's not much else that will give you much enhancement. (I.E. no aftermarket turbo/super chargers, no NOS kits, no headers/exhaust.)

I also have before me a copy of the Performance Products catalog (one of the many many Porsche catalogs in my collection), which happens to list the h.p. made per model.

It says here that a 1988 911 (chassis numbers 91JS100001-5000), with a 3164 cc engine (engine code 930.25), with a 95x74.4 Bore/stroke and a 9.5:1 compression ratio will make 214 h.p at 5900 rpm. Unfortunately, it does not list the weight of the car, but I am reasonably certain that the car weighs in at around 3200 lbs. The 911 was not really a 'light' car. It still has a steel body, and this is where the NSX's aluminum body makes up. Compare a '91 through '94 NSX with 270 h.p. at approximately 3000 lbs. So the NSX makes about 56 more h.p. and weighs around 200 lbs less.

As for the 930 Turbos (which also weigh in at around 3200lbs) the horsepower (stock, rated by Porsche themselves) figures are as follows:

1976-1977-245 h.p.@5500 rpm
1978-1979-265 h.p.@5500 rpm
1980-1983-No U.S. 930's available.
1984-1986-300 h.p.@5500 rpm
1986-1989-282 h.p.@5500 rpm.
1990-No U.S. 930's available
1991-1993-315 h.p.@5750 rpm
1994-355@5500 rpm
1995-1998-400 h.p.@4500 rpm
2000 996 Turbo-420 h.p.@600 rpm.

 

[len3.8]

All, Base 88 911 does not way 3200lbs, More like 2755. They didn't get that heavy until the 964 versions came out with AWD.
What Paul said about the mods on the 911 is as accurate as it gets. Unless you swap out the engine with a 993 of 1998 which would net you 270-282lbs depending on what you are reading, You would be stock with the 214-30hp the factory rated it at, chip,exhaust, may get you another 15hp. Still the torque is just not there.... Now on the 930's, you may have the hp ratings, but no torque ratings... The 930's were torque monsters... Like some of the others I have had the 911 series, moded the 911 series, The stock NSX is not going to outrun a late model 930, maybe the stock 75-76 cars, but with the small mods that Matteni mentioned, it's not a race..... Then NSX MR2 says "I say that stock for stock, short of a 993TT, 996TT, GT2, Gt3 and a few specialized Porsches out there (not readily available,) the NSX will torch the 930 gladly" You forgot about the 964 series 911t's, they will toast a NSX, Drag or on the road. dream what you want.
Have had both, have both,driven both, I like the NSX as well as anyone else, don't make it into something it is not...

 

[NSX/MR2]

Well, I guess I haven't ran into a 964TT. No, of couse I am not try ing to make the NSX a car that it is not (still fast compare to lots of stock cars out there.) I am just stating that many NSX owners drag race their cars and have found that most Porsches short of the ones i mentioned to be easily taken. Also, I have driven a 996 TT and ridden in my buddy's Boxster before, I have some idea (No, I don't have them myself.) However, since I haven't raced the car that you mentioned yet, you maybe right.

 

[len3.8]

Now a Boxster S, that would be interesting.... Just letting you know on the 911's.... The 91-2 & 94 especially the 94's were monsters.... Not only drag racing, the are very competent on the track & twisty roads.... They are very reliable....... Everything the NSX is ,short the absolute handling... They are not as exotic looking as the NSX.... On the top end as someone said you now have a good run.... Now as to which one I would take as a overall auto, The NSX hands down.... I think they compliment each other very well... Both cars are up to most tasks, and handle them quite well....


This thread may need to be moved to off topic...

 

[paulviriyapan]

OK guys I found the stats on the various model Porsches on this site: Porsche stats by year

Keep in mind that these figures are for the EUROPEAN spec cars, which didn't have to be weighed down to meet DOT crash certifications, and didn't have to deal with EPA smog (like have those horrible thermal reactors which made the 2.7's overheat). The horsepower figures I have previously posted are accurate for the U.S. model cars.

If you scroll down to the bottom, you will see that the weight of a 1978-1979 930 Turbo is 1385 kilograms which translates to 3047 lbs. I have a feeling that the U.S. spec ones have got to be heavier (and they are using the U.S. spec horsepower figures). In any event, the published stats for the European models shows the 0-60 times of roughly 5 seconds, which is roughly what the NSX has been tested to run 0-60. Long story short, I don't think that a *stock* 930 can *toast* an NSX unless it's one of the super duper later models (1994 964, 993 TT, or 996 TT).

I think we should keep the comparisons clean here, a stock v. stock comparison, and a modded v. modded comparison. Stock on stock, I don't see any NSX *toasting*. Modded, I am sure the 930 Turbo can be a beast. However, I would also like to point, in the vein of modded cars, that Mr. Gerry Johnson's NSX puts out 503 rwhp, and after he is done with my car, I expect mine to pull over 400 rwhp.

 

[len3.8]

Quote: Paul
If you scroll down to the bottom, you will see that the weight of a 1978-1979 930 Turbo is 1385 kilograms which translates to 3047 lbs.

In regards to lbs, That came into question on the stock 88 Carrera, Not the turbo models.


Quote: Paul
I don't think that a *stock* 930 can *toast* an NSX unless it's one of the super duper later models (1994 964, 993 TT, or 996 TT).

Read my post again, You just stated pretty much what I said.
Except you left out the 91-92, which still outrun the NSX by a very good margin... Again BTDT,

As far as the comparison with Gerry's Turbo, which I am sorta biased towards, Read: I plan on having it... Even if you have the engine built with 503hp and 500ftlbs, my plans by the way... There are guys with modded 930's,993tt's, 964t's putting out those very #'s... So that really just opens up another avenue.. Not interested in turning down that one....

Glad to see you made the right choice on your setup
I would love to see/ride in those cars when they are done Paul.