My bad, correct Stuntman...toe in on the rear, toe out on the front...
'floaty' feeling
- Thread starter swerve2007
- Start date
My bad, correct Stuntman...toe in on the rear, toe out on the front...
:smile:
Do you happen to know of (or know the link) of the stock alignment settings for the NSX for every 'version'? -I'd like to add it to my setup database
fair enaugh,
i will install zanardi stuff and see how she responds.
thanks for input guys.
i will install zanardi stuff and see how she responds.
thanks for input guys.
Zanardi what?
I have been tracking my '92 since 96, at lots of tracks. I know exactly the floatiness you are describing. I felt it most often in higher (over 60mph) speed long benders, with it particularly bad with a gentle off-camber component being the absolute worst - sometimes the floatiness was so bad it made you want to puke in your helmet
Turn 3 at Roebling Road stands out in my mind for demonstrating this 'feature'. I know how bad it can be, bro.Two suggestions. Take a slightly different line to more abruptly come on/off power or time the transition differently to 'settle' the NSX sooner in the turn. I found you can then confidently get back on the power just fine. Truthfully, the car can handle the corner just fine 'floating' but your brain has trouble going along with that plan when it feels like your a__ is on jelllo.
Or just get the non-compliance bushings and forget about it. Don't bother with changing out the whole suspension for this one issue.
This is one of the subtleties of the stock car setup.
Cheers,
Johnnymo
I would like to kindly disagree and again state that this 'floaty-ness' is due to the soft damping and spring rates rather than bushing deflection.I have been tracking my '92 since 96, at lots of tracks. I know exactly the floatiness you are describing. I felt it most often in higher (over 60mph) speed long benders, with it particularly bad with a gentle off-camber component being the absolute worst - sometimes the floatiness was so bad it made you want to puke in your helmet
Two suggestions. Take a slightly different line to more abruptly come on/off power or time the transition differently to 'settle' the NSX sooner in the turn. I found you can then confidently get back on the power just fine. Truthfully, the car can handle the corner just fine 'floating' but your brain has trouble going along with that plan when it feels like your a__ is on jelllo.
Or just get the non-compliance bushings and forget about it. Don't bother with changing out the whole suspension for this one issue.
This is one of the subtleties of the stock car setup.
Cheers,
Johnnymo
0.02
Johnnymo, you live in Dana Point? I'm in San Clemente. What color is your car/what tracks do you visit?
-Billy
Mine's Sebring Silver. I've tracked it at Streets of Willow, Laguna Seca, Firebird, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta, VIR, Roebling, Sebring, Summit Point, Shenandoa, Loew's, Pocono, the Rock, and a few more I'm sure to have forgotton. I lived in N.C. for 8 years and Boston for 4 before moving back west so the car has seen a lot of the east with Car Guys
I used to hang around a lot at VIR and Road Atlanta, but found Shenandoa to be the most challenging track in the recent crop.My floatiness went away with the non compliance bushings, and my only other change to the suspension was the CT adjustable sways and the strut tower brace to stiffen up the rear more. The latter two changes were done early on and I still had the jello feeling until the NSX guys at Road Atlanta pointed me in the right direction. As far as the difference of opinion, perhaps we are describing two different phenomenona. I do agree with the earlier discussion about tires/pressures/alignment FIRST and FOREMOST with the car; I've never driven a car more sensitive to those 3 things for sure.
John
Awesome. What track is Shenandoa again? I think i've been there...Mine's Sebring Silver. I've tracked it at Streets of Willow, Laguna Seca, Firebird, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta, VIR, Roebling, Sebring, Summit Point, Shenandoa, Loew's, Pocono, the Rock, and a few more I'm sure to have forgotton. I lived in N.C. for 8 years and Boston for 4 before moving back west so the car has seen a lot of the east with Car Guys
My floatiness went away with the non compliance bushings, and my only other change to the suspension was the CT adjustable sways and the strut tower brace to stiffen up the rear more. The latter two changes were done early on and I still had the jello feeling until the NSX guys at Road Atlanta pointed me in the right direction. As far as the difference of opinion, perhaps we are describing two different phenomenona. I do agree with the earlier discussion about tires/pressures/alignment FIRST and FOREMOST with the car; I've never driven a car more sensitive to those 3 things for sure.
John
Do you live in Dana Point now?
What springs/shock setup are you running? Often discriptions are vague, and easier to trouble-shoot when talking in person or over the phone, but usually 'floaty-ness' is a description of vague and imprecise body movement usually due to springs/shocks, when on stock springs/shocks, the stock bushings don't tend to be the problem.
Shenandoa is part of the Summit Point complex in W.Va and was designed to be a KinderNurburgring. Lots of elevation change, off camber, decreasing radius, you name it, if it challenges car control and your skills - it's got it.
I live in D.P. now.
I have left the car's suspension pretty much stock, as it's been my trusty daily driver for over 13 years. I figured good enough for Senna = another dimension from my limits. I think this kind of symptom is hard to describe without being in a car with someone when it's near the limit. Around here that's gonna be tricky. Anybody with the stock setup want to try the onramp from MacArthur to the 73S that's 80-90 range and see if you get it? The NSX gets a little unsettled there, of course only at the posted speed limit
Cheers,
John
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I usually drive the big track but have driven shanandoah shortly after it was paved.Shenandoa is part of the Summit Point complex in W.Va and was designed to be a KinderNurburgring. Lots of elevation change, off camber, decreasing radius, you name it, if it challenges car control and your skills - it's got it.
I live in D.P. now.
I have left the car's suspension pretty much stock, as it's been my trusty daily driver for over 13 years. I figured good enough for Senna = another dimension from my limits. I think this kind of symptom is hard to describe without being in a car with someone when it's near the limit. Around here that's gonna be tricky. Anybody with the stock setup want to try the onramp from McArthur to the 73S that's 80-90 range and see if you get it? The NSX gets a little unsettled there, of course only at the posted speed limit
Cheers,
John
The stock nsx suspension is quite good but does have its shortcomings...
True True. This thread is describing one of them. I have noticed that it's easy with this car to get "lost" when you start playing with the suspension; she's a fickle bird. I remember when Peter Cunningham and Pierre Kleinubing from RealTime were beating around MidOhio in our cars and were noting just how MANY of the cars we were tracking were set up all wrong
) The lightly-massaged stock suspension set up by a three-time world champion and arguably the greatest car control driver ever to get behind the wheel of our car (and daily drive) has kept me safe and happy with my daily driver for a long time. Cheers,
John
PS. Dear God, Senna could just drive the CRAP out of the NSX. I love watching in the YouTube videos how he would be furiously feathering the throttle and spinning the wheel....yet the front of the car remained resolutely pointed in the intended direction at inhuman speeds. Man, I miss that guy on Sundays.
I am still not exactly sure about what you mean by "floaty feeling"?
Do you mean the feeling that occurs in the rear of the NSX when you take a long seeping turn at a somewhat higher speed that it feels like the car is first kind of 'leaning' on one wheel and switches over to the other wheel?
Like if the rear end the car is 'taking a set'?
If it is that what you mean, you are most probably talking about the rear toe-link bushings. I used to have that in my car too, even after I had switched to the Tein-RA suspension.
Later on, I replaced my toe-links with the non-compliance links from SOS and now that feeling has completely disappeared. Now, my rear end feels solidly planted on the ground in every corner that I take.
Do you mean the feeling that occurs in the rear of the NSX when you take a long seeping turn at a somewhat higher speed that it feels like the car is first kind of 'leaning' on one wheel and switches over to the other wheel?
Like if the rear end the car is 'taking a set'?
If it is that what you mean, you are most probably talking about the rear toe-link bushings. I used to have that in my car too, even after I had switched to the Tein-RA suspension.
Later on, I replaced my toe-links with the non-compliance links from SOS and now that feeling has completely disappeared. Now, my rear end feels solidly planted on the ground in every corner that I take.
I have been tracking my '92 since 96, at lots of tracks. I know exactly the floatiness you are describing. I felt it most often in higher (over 60mph) speed long benders, with it particularly bad with a gentle off-camber component being the absolute worst - sometimes the floatiness was so bad it made you want to puke in your helmet
Two suggestions. Take a slightly different line to more abruptly come on/off power or time the transition differently to 'settle' the NSX sooner in the turn. I found you can then confidently get back on the power just fine. Truthfully, the car can handle the corner just fine 'floating' but your brain has trouble going along with that plan when it feels like your a__ is on jelllo.
Or just get the non-compliance bushings and forget about it. Don't bother with changing out the whole suspension for this one issue.
This is one of the subtleties of the stock car setup.
Cheers,
Johnnymo
hi,
ok, so i am not crazy. maybe it is a personal issue
but the 'perceived' floatiness is very annoying to me. (i can tell the diff between chassis flex and fork flex on a bike at full lean and thats more touchy than a car). first of all, thank for all the input. like i said, i have full type-s suspension in the box (sways too) but i was hesitant to install it before i understood fully the little idiosynchresis of the car. i totally agree with you, stuntman, that stock suspension makes the issue worse, but i was pretty sure that it wasn't shocks i was feeling although a lack of low-speed dampening in worn shocks will greatly aggrevate the issue.
the post that really makes me confident about this is that some of you felt the problem persist even after suspension change- the rear beam does portray itself as the culprit.
thx.
"....Do you mean the feeling that occurs in the rear of the NSX when you take a long seeping turn at a somewhat higher speed that it feels like the car is first kind of 'leaning' on one wheel and switches over to the other wheel?
Like if the rear end the car is 'taking a set'?..."
we are talking about the same thing but from my experience it does not feel like the weight shift from side to side but more of a rear-end "lifting" or floating with the outside wheel wanting to push the car into oversteer- all this at constant speed and radius so no driver inputs are to blame.
thx
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