Hopefully the block, sleeves, etc are good.
I was pondering buying a built turboed NSX and stuff like this has shied me away.
First drive in my new Turbo NSX & it blows up!
- Thread starter Greg Z
- Start date
Hopefully the block, sleeves, etc are good.
I was pondering buying a built turboed NSX and stuff like this has shied me away.
Sorry about your luck man. No oil could def be a good thing. Might have cooked a piston like you said. Block might be able to be bored out some and sleeved. Keep hope alive!
You're in a good area at least. Take it to Tony Palo at T1 Race Development in Dallas and he'll get you right! Then you'll have the nastiest Turbo NSX around! Tell him Erik B sent cha
You're in a good area at least. Take it to Tony Palo at T1 Race Development in Dallas and he'll get you right! Then you'll have the nastiest Turbo NSX around! Tell him Erik B sent cha
Would you really pay for parts for repairs on a used car you just sold? Is that a warranty of some sort or just verbal agreement? You would be the only person I know that would pay for repairs on a vehicle that you no longer owned. Let me know when you sell your NSX, I want to make sure you will stand behind that car also.
What happen to GregZ sucks, but that is the risks of buying a highly modified used vehicle from private seller. Buyer Beware!
This really sucks to hear man. Is it possible you got water into the intake somehow when you were driving it in the rain and then when you got it back and got on it the water finally worked its way to the engine?
Might be a long shot, but just a thought.
Might be a long shot, but just a thought.
Wow, I seriously wouldn't have gotten on it until it was re-tuned for your environment. I mean altitude, humidity levels, he may have been on 93 and you on 91 octane fuel, etc. etc. There are so many different factors that not any one of them, but rather a combination of a multiple small ones, could have been the culprit.
So in some part shame on you for not being able to have the patience to get it tuned before the temptation of boost, although frankly I can't blame you one bit. Although on the flip side, shame on the previous owner/tuner for setting up the car so tight that such small variations would lead to such quick catastrophic failure. Running slightly rich and spewing a little smoke is a small tradeoff for some margin of safety.
A few important questions:
1) What was the boost guage reading when it failed and what is your boost setting? It is critical to know if you overboosted.
2) What ECU are you using?
3) Do you have a wideband?
4) Did you properly warm up the car before boosting? And not just water and oil temp, but the entire car and engine. I've learned that even though the gauge in the cluster says it is warmed up and ready, it is most definitely NOT ready. EGT and other indicators are still rising.
5) What guages do you have in your car. I hope you have EGT, boost, oil temp, A/F and were they all clear before boosting?
So in some part shame on you for not being able to have the patience to get it tuned before the temptation of boost, although frankly I can't blame you one bit. Although on the flip side, shame on the previous owner/tuner for setting up the car so tight that such small variations would lead to such quick catastrophic failure. Running slightly rich and spewing a little smoke is a small tradeoff for some margin of safety.
A few important questions:
1) What was the boost guage reading when it failed and what is your boost setting? It is critical to know if you overboosted.
2) What ECU are you using?
3) Do you have a wideband?
4) Did you properly warm up the car before boosting? And not just water and oil temp, but the entire car and engine. I've learned that even though the gauge in the cluster says it is warmed up and ready, it is most definitely NOT ready. EGT and other indicators are still rising.
5) What guages do you have in your car. I hope you have EGT, boost, oil temp, A/F and were they all clear before boosting?
I agree with you. Shame on me, its not like I don't know better. But I still doubt it was a combo of oct alt etc., I personally am betting bad gas and a stuck/closed injector.
1. I did not monitor the boost guage. Boost is set @ 18#. I did watch boost the previos times I got on it and it always went to 18#. But this was the first run I went over 110 or so. I was at 140 when it blew.
2. Electromotec tec3
3. no wideband
4. car was properly warmed and driven 10 miles before I ran it hard.
5. I have no EGT or A/F
:frown:I feel like a loser:frown: now
Greg,
This sucks, what are you going to do know? I feel your pain:frown:
This sucks, what are you going to do know? I feel your pain:frown:
I'm gonna get it to Houston ASAP ( hopefully this week). I'm told by the mechanic that he can get the piston out by just removing the head with the engine still in the car. Price is reasonable. Time frame is good. Now as long AS LONG AS ITS JUST a piston AND IF I can get one from JE, AND IF I can get T1 Racing to tune it soon, I will be happy.
You need to remove the head as well as the pan to remove a piston/rod assembly, do you have a shop in LA that can work on this car?
If you have access to a leakdown tester it would provide more information about your issue; perhaps your bottom end is good, and you only burned a valve. If you do have an issue with the bottom end, it's highly unlikely that problem will start and stop with the quick replacement of one piston assembly. At a minimum, you should remove all six pistons to inspect them for damage.
It's an unfortunate story, I hope it ends well.
This job will go much smoother by remove the engine assembly then pull the head. IMHO. :smile:
Would you really pay for parts for repairs on a used car you just sold? Is that a warranty of some sort or just verbal agreement? You would be the only person I know that would pay for repairs on a vehicle that you no longer owned. Let me know when you sell your NSX, I want to make sure you will stand behind that car also.
I wouldn't rule out help from the seller.
I helped pay for a new window regulator ONE YEAR after I sold my NSX. I told the buyer that the window fix-it-thingies were installed because that is what I was told by the previous owner. They were not. I asked for pictures of the broken plastic thingies for proof... just like this seller might be doing.
edit: funny.. I just found the old thread regarding the above and you responded to it.
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Dang, sorry for the mis-fortune there. Like I said, I can't really blame you since it is sooooo tempting to tap into all that HP.
I don't know much about that ECU at all, but some of them have some sort of history memory you can tap into. Perhaps if you can get someone to get into your ECU you can trace back what went wrong, especially like if it overboosted.
One thing I noticed was that you have 680cc fuel injectors. On a car making your level of power, personally I would have gone with 750cc injectors. I think the 680cc is a little to tight for my comfort, but that's just me.
Also, like you've already properly diagnosed, definitely check out your fuel delivery system. Check your injectors, examine your fuel pump.
On the bright side, it's not the end of the world. One way to look at this experience is identifying the weak spots and potential problems with the car now. As I went up the boost ladder, I had my fair share of problems and failures. Lifted head gastkets, crushed pistons, etc. Each time gave me the opportunity to beef up my engine so that I solved that issue and would move on to the next. It's an expensive lesson, but as you probably already know, this is an expensive game we play in. I'm sure you'll be able to repair your engine and be back on the road in no time. Sure it'll cost you a few more ducketts, but it will quite a learning experience.
When you rebuild your car, I highly recommend a good tuner you can trust and a wideband. Personally I would upgrade to larger injectors, or lower your boost, but that is just me. That's a lot of pounds of boost for the power level you are putting out. If I recall, LoveFab is putting out about 500+whp at about 13 lbs of boost. I'm at 550 whp at about 14-15 lbs of boost. 18 lbs seems like a lot but then again, I don't know much about your build so I really can say. But I'm sure your tuner will figure out what's best. Best of luck!
I don't know much about that ECU at all, but some of them have some sort of history memory you can tap into. Perhaps if you can get someone to get into your ECU you can trace back what went wrong, especially like if it overboosted.
One thing I noticed was that you have 680cc fuel injectors. On a car making your level of power, personally I would have gone with 750cc injectors. I think the 680cc is a little to tight for my comfort, but that's just me.
Also, like you've already properly diagnosed, definitely check out your fuel delivery system. Check your injectors, examine your fuel pump.
On the bright side, it's not the end of the world. One way to look at this experience is identifying the weak spots and potential problems with the car now. As I went up the boost ladder, I had my fair share of problems and failures. Lifted head gastkets, crushed pistons, etc. Each time gave me the opportunity to beef up my engine so that I solved that issue and would move on to the next. It's an expensive lesson, but as you probably already know, this is an expensive game we play in. I'm sure you'll be able to repair your engine and be back on the road in no time. Sure it'll cost you a few more ducketts, but it will quite a learning experience.
When you rebuild your car, I highly recommend a good tuner you can trust and a wideband. Personally I would upgrade to larger injectors, or lower your boost, but that is just me. That's a lot of pounds of boost for the power level you are putting out. If I recall, LoveFab is putting out about 500+whp at about 13 lbs of boost. I'm at 550 whp at about 14-15 lbs of boost. 18 lbs seems like a lot but then again, I don't know much about your build so I really can say. But I'm sure your tuner will figure out what's best. Best of luck!
Thnx Matt. 40 yrs old today and I feel all 40 of it today.
18#'s of boost! 
I though running around with 7#'s was a lot!
I though running around with 7#'s was a lot! 
OUCH! I feel your pain. 
It sounds like you may be able to get it repaired easier and a lower price than what may have initially crossed your mind $$$$$
Good luck.... congrats on the new car, major bummer about it blowing up, that blows.
Good luck with the seller.... most used cars and dealers who sell pre-owned cars sell them "As Is" unless otherwise specified.
If he does chip in, consider yourself very blessed... if not count yourself blessed... you still own a NSX :biggrin:
It sounds like you may be able to get it repaired easier and a lower price than what may have initially crossed your mind $$$$$
Good luck.... congrats on the new car, major bummer about it blowing up, that blows.
Good luck with the seller.... most used cars and dealers who sell pre-owned cars sell them "As Is" unless otherwise specified.
If he does chip in, consider yourself very blessed... if not count yourself blessed... you still own a NSX :biggrin:
This really sucks it happened .. can the motor handle 18psi of boost? Hopefully you can get it back on the road soon.
TEC 3 is a very nice unit so I would not replace it (Used frequently by BMW and Porsche tuners). It should work fine with the OBD1 car. From my prior experience with Gerry in the past, he would probably have put in a 3 bar sensor so the TEC3 should have datalogged it without an issue. You can probably download the Wintec program from Electromotive and see if there was an issue. I would worry about the fuel pump. Gerry in the past always put in his own fuel supply so the lines shouldn't have limited you but if there were any fuel pump issues, then a sudden fall in pressure could clearly have caused a lean situation. I am assuming that you probably had it floored since you were doing 140 mph.
I would personally consider adding a wideband for the future. Also, since you already have the monitor, you could probably add a netbook computer and use the netbook computer connected to the TEC3 and monitor pretty much monitor everything that your EMS sees.
Lastly, Gerry's cars were always torque monsters with high torque and lower peak HP since he tended to use smaller turbos and they would build boost sooner but were limited on total volume of air delivered due to small size. It is always hard to remember that hp is dependent not on boost pressure but the volume of air pumped through the engine.
I kind of sifted through the thread and I not really familiar with turbo's but is it possible with all the rain that water was sucked into the motor? Was the car on an open trailer? I know some guys put rear engine cars back wards on a trailer to get the weight of motor ahead of the axle on the trailer. Towing a car back wards like this can cause water to get into places it's not suppose to go.
Water would actually help prevent his engine from blowing up. Since water is not a combustible it actually retards, er I mean, mentally challenges the combustion process, thus helping it from detonating. Like if I took the extreme case of flooding his engine with water, it would just stall out and die instead of detonating. The only way I could fathom water actually causing a detonation would be if there was enough water to retard, er I mean, mentally challenge the combustion process, so the ECU leaned out to keep from stalling out. Then if the water were to quickly evaporate and the ECU didn't restore fuel pressure then it could be running lean and detonate (similar to when a water/meth injection system malfunctions). But unless the car was tuned that to handle the water, it wouldn't of happened. That would be a stretch if not impossible altogether.
That's only true when atomized.
Water is not compressible. A little water at high RPM in a car can make an intake valve look like a question mark.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yes, but that much water would prevent the combustion process, not enhance the opportunity for detonation. Either way, atomized or liquid, detonation should not have occured due to water. Try driving your car into a lake at full throttle and see if you detonate. Bent rods, maybe, but not detonation. From the sound of the OP, it sounds like he had a detonation.
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