Feb Motor Trend article

[nsxtacey]

Not really an article but a brief note on Takeo Fukui Ceo of Honda and that he axed the next nsx "which makes sense financially, but leaves Honda without a halo car to capitalize on its return to form in F1" (page 65). Take it for what its worth but doesn't look good when all the mags say the same thing :frown:

 

[effer]

Dear Takeo Fukui san,

there are financial questions and there also are reputation ones.

What is financially wise could be incommensurably harmful and stupid on the strategical and reputational aspect.

There is nothing worst than tergiversation, and this is exactly what people will conclude about a company who has the insolence to pretend being a leader in the F1 circus ( but still not winning any title nor a single Grand Prix ... ) but has no guts to concretise it on the exotic sports car ground....

got the picture ??????????????


If you intend to abandon the exotic sportscar ship, please have the honesty and courage to say it officially and to say in the face of the world that you made a mistake in spending money in the NSX project more than ten years ago and letting that revolutionnary and winning car concept unevolved seriously at the level it deserved.

"Quand le vin est tiré, il faut le boire."

You failed because you started something great and didn't continue it with the same dedication.

Why begin a masterpiece with the intention to abandon it ?

Sorry to say it but this a loser or choker attitude...


So to sum it up Mr. Fukui, how much is Honda's reputation?

Surely more than the amount you will save in cowardly axing the fabulous NSX successor.

I repeat it:

"Quand le vin est tiré, il faut le boire."


Winning in F1 is an abstract way to convince people buying your every day streetable products.

Winning in the magazine comparison tests in the sports car segment is a concrete way to sell your products and in the same impulse to sell the responsible halo car.

Remember 1990... you did sell a lot of NSX because this car had brilliant results in the world automotive press compared to icons such as Ferrari and Porsche... not because you were crushing the competition in F1.

And also because this car was a bargain on every aspects.

Do the same now, do a 4,0L V6 or V8 powered new NSX with 590 hp in a less than 1270kg package redlining at 9,5k or 10k rpm and you will be doomed to success.

Sometimes it is sadly mandatory to say the real things.

From a loyal admirer who never bought a car that wasn't a Honda. From a passionate person who hates compromises and firmly believe in Honda's excellence and capacity to stand with the very best. From a person who has the hability to recognize excellence when it shows up and who dreamed , since its introduction, about the NSX and now also dream not about an Enzo but a Mc Laren F1...

Don't you remember that Mc Laren asked you to develop its F1 street car model engine?

Where is your pride?

Your dedication to be top competitive?

Your engagment to honour Soichiro dreams and philosophy?



Friendly suggestion: if you don't know what to do ... I give you the permission to engage me and to give me in charge of the NSX project.

I will make it a huge success.

And if you don't believe me I'd be pleased to hear you in person at your choice's place and at my expenses.

You don't know me but believe me, when I give my words I always respect my promises.

Honda has to make an NSX worthy successor and this is not a money question.

Effer

 

[Akira]

If this is true, then I really don't like the image the Honda is trying to create. I guess if you want Japanese sports cars, I have to look at Nissan, Toyota, and Mazda from now on... :frown: I can see it now... in 2007 the new Skyline GTR vs new Supra vs new RX-7 vs Honda Civic ...

 

[nsxtacey]

I do believe that the hsc was the replacement car but because of the lack of hp and complaints on this board, it would have been a lost for them to bring to market. Their lack luster sales of nsx and s2000 probably made them turn in another direction. I'm not sure though if the ridgeline/trucks is the right direction.

I think there will be eventually a next nsx but probably a interim period where there is not, like the 300z, rx7, and supra which took couple of years to see a replacement. I guess for now just enjoy what we have.

 

[HONDA]

i hope they build someting else something to replace it

they can't forget there heritage

both the s2000 and nsx are out-dated...if they are getting rid of both of those (rummers of the last s2k year is comming) what sports car are they going to make?

racing in f1 allows them to learn so much and build these awsome cars..all there cars use technology from there racing experence

there making too many suvs/trucks

 

[NetViper]

I do believe that the hsc was the replacement car but because of the lack of hp and complaints on this board, it would have been a lost for them to bring to market.

I don't think this site has that much influence with Honda.

 

[qirex]

screw honda....


get a 911 or corvette
or AMV8,
or maser 3200
boxter s
the list goes on, for what the present nsx offers - there are better alternatives.

Frankly i cant imagine how honda can touch a C6Z06 or 997TT w/ only a NA V6...


I dont care how "great it is in the twisties..."

 

[randomharmony]

i second with qirex (probably better choice of words though), for those who still think NSX is what it was when it came out, they are in DENIAL. i like to add the following cars to the list (really great values and great cars!):

Sti,
Evo MR
350Z/G35

 

[qirex]

yeah, it was really sad coming to that realization my daily driv er is a 350Z, sure the nsx is a better track car, but for~$65K for an 02, its really hard to justify...$15k more and i'm in the hunt for a 02 996TT. which will wipe any NSX (mod for mod) off the street and track.

 

[Patdeisa]

rummers of the last s2k year is coming

IMO, the Honda dealers were the ones who killed the S2k. They left many potential buyers disappointed and frustrated with the buying process. They should have immitated Ferrari by selling them at MSRP and putting buyers on a waitlist, instead of adding extra profit to them. Additionally, they refused to let people test drive the cars, even after almost 3 years of them being on the market.

I'm one of 3 guys in a small town who looked at buying one, but all of us were shot down by the dealers because we were too young to fit into their target audience- all of us were mid-20s engineers making more than enough to buy. The end of this little point is that out of 3 buyers who wanted one, only one ended up with an S2k (2 years later), one (me) with an RSX-S (and now looking at a used NSX :biggrin: ), and one looking at an Accord instead.

 

[effer]

About the S2K ( in fact Honda should name it the S2,2K... )

I just don't understand why Honda doesn't offer a paddle shifting option?

This way they could get the best of both world:

an alternative to people reluctant with manual transmission

without neglecting those comfortable with...


This option should be more appealing also to drivers living/working in cities area ...

The 9K redline IMO was also one of its untouchable features...

Please Honda, stop this pathetic dilution. Not only you still miss to interest dissatisfied people but exasperate your faithful admirers...

 

[qirex]

yeah....that 9k feature is also its achilles heel....cmon 148 lb-ft of torque....

pullleez

 

[NetViper]

yeah, it was really sad coming to that realization my daily driv er is a 350Z, sure the nsx is a better track car, but for~$65K for an 02, its really hard to justify...$15k more and i'm in the hunt for a 02 996TT. which will wipe any NSX (mod for mod) off the street and track.

So, you could also get a really nice low mileage 91-94 NSX for ~$30K and spend $12K and have a 400+ reliable daily driver.

So at $42K, that is still a lot less than 993 Turbos are still going for.

Unless you love the 02 lights, there is really no performance reason to get one.

 

[NetViper]

About the S2K ( in fact Honda should name it the S2,2K... )

I just don't understand why Honda doesn't offer a paddle shifting option?

This way they could get the best of both world:

an alternative to people reluctant with manual transmission

without neglecting those comfortable with...


This option should be more appealing also to drivers living/working in cities area ...

The 9K redline IMO was also one of its untouchable features...

Please Honda, stop this pathetic dilution. Not only you still miss to interest dissatisfied people but exasperate your faithful admirers...

You are 100% right. By not including an auto option, they killed potentially 1/2 their audience.

I mean, if they offer an auto on a NSX, why not on a S2000???

 

[ncdogdoc]

.......
I mean, if they offer an auto on a NSX, why not on a S2000???

Uhh, the lack of torque below say 5000rpm, and losing all the joy of stretching it out to 9000rpm.

Besides, the S2000 was supposed to be a limited production per year and only 2 (or maybe 3) years total. The fact they even created a new model with a redesigned engine was a change of direction for Honda.

 

[qirex]

i dont know if i'd call a 400hp nsx reliable.

maybe, but cmon, honda blocks and internals werent designed for boost.
Anyhow, personally, i like the 02 upgrade.

hell, if i threw a $6k S/C on my Z i'd have 400+ rwhp, but thats not the point

my 1st mod on the TT will be the $2k stage 1A upgrade = +90HP, easy free HP.

that and the dated interior design. dont get me wrong, i love the nsx, but its just starting to feel old.


to each their own....

 

[effer]

yeah....that 9k feature is also its achilles heel....cmon 148 lb-ft of torque....

Can we say that the S2200 is an obviously better performer than the previous S2000?

Given in hands of drivers unable to correctly use its powerband, maybe, and for such a small improvement.



The admitted flavor of this car is:

High rev and low torque sreaming tiny four banger playing in the ground of motorbikes and formula type race cars sensations.

I have no problem with this.

It is also, IMO, convenient if you are looking for a split personnality car: a beast when you want it and a frugal Civic when staying in the low rpms...




In this case, redline has nothing to do with torque or vice versa; the actual S2200 could have both ( a 9k redline and the added torque ) but Honda decided to play it safe with the added mass; another decision I wouldn't have made ...

I liked very much the idea of a 6 inline @ 3 L for a nice 360 hp even if it was a hoax !!! Do you remember that article?

Actually Honda can get more than 120 hp /L, say 135, so an updated S2K should now show: 2,2 L and around 300 hp...

and the new NSX: 4,5 L and 663,75 hp ...


Again isn't it obvious that Honda is slow compared to its competition to update its products. Just see what Porsche did with the Boxster.

Still the same song; starting a masterpiece and to abandon it ...

 

[HONDA]

In this case, redline has nothing to do with torque or vice versa; the actual S2200 could have both ( a 9k redline and the added torque ) but Honda decided to play it safe with the added mass; another decision I wouldn't have made ...

3.57in 2.2 s2000 moters stroke
3.30in 2.0 s2000 moters stroke

i just wanted to point out yes honda could have added more torque and more hp with keeping the redline

but they added more stroke ..so they wanted the engine to have more low end torque..but the problem with adding more stroke is when you start to rev high the piston speed becomes too fast and you lose power.

just thought it should have been pointed out..honda is capable of alot..but they do things with a purpose

 

[randomharmony]

no need to trash Honda, i went to the JGTC race in LA at the end of last year, and guess what! There were more NSX race car then others, and from watching the race first hand, after all these years, NSX is still hands down the best. The Z is a wonderful car, great value, but still comes second to NSX, a very close second though. It all depends on your application and perosnal taste.

 

[qirex]

no need to trash Honda, i went to the JGTC race in LA at the end of last year, and guess what! There were more NSX race car then others, and from watching the race first hand, after all these years, NSX is still hands down the best. The Z is a wonderful car, great value, but still comes second to NSX, a very close second though. It all depends on your application and perosnal taste.

JGTC cars have VEZRY little to do with street cars.

also realize that the rules of jgtc penalize a winningcar with weight restrictions after *each* race, so its really a spectators dream (yep! a drivers race) unlike F1

I agree that the Z is second place to the nsx - it better be for 1/2 the cost. Its a little scary to think that a simple exhaust mod will be all that will separate them in terms of RWHP.

 

[NetViper]

JGTC cars have VEZRY little to do with street cars.

also realize that the rules of jgtc penalize a winningcar with weight restrictions after *each* race, so its really a spectators dream (yep! a drivers race) unlike F1

I agree that the Z is second place to the nsx - it better be for 1/2 the cost. Its a little scary to think that a simple exhaust mod will be all that will separate them in terms of RWHP.

There is more to a car than just rwhp. If you think a Z car is even in the same league as a NSX, you need your head examined.

 

[qirex]

There is more to a car than just rwhp. If you think a Z car is even in the same league as a NSX, you need your head examined.

I agree the Z is second place. like I said.
Of course there's more to a car than RWHP - if not I'd be buying a vette Z06 instead of a 996TT.

I simply said its a little sad, that equally matched - the VQ makes more power than the NSX. I guess its not *that* surprising. Simply talking power here nothing else.

The importance is that unfortunately, HP Sells cars. if the NSX had 50HP more in stock form, it'd prolly get more love from honda, sell more than 300 units/year (not counting its first 2 years).

Again, the nsx is clearly a better CAR (cost immaterial), but she engine....she engine be a weak.

 

[swbatte]

I've owned Hondas for 16 years. Civics, Preludes, Integra and my NSX; this is what I've noticed...

Decreasing the performance image of the Honda line has been going on for 10 plus years. The CRX became the deSol which was not nearly as fun. The Prelude got cancelled. The Civics started coming with drum breaks and the double wishbone suspension was only available on top line models.

Honda doesn't sell a single car that I still want to buy, so I don't even go into their lots on Sundays to look around. A six speed Accord?? give me a break.

Acura has been trying to purvey itself as a technology driven company (vice performance like BMW). It will be sad to see the NSX go, but I'm surprised it is still available now.

When they're done I'm sure they'll sell more cars, but not to me.

 

[Sig]

my 1st mod on the TT will be the $2k stage 1A upgrade = +90HP, easy free HP.

Doesn't exactly sound free to me?

That said, 2K for 90hp is a good deal in terms of $'s per hp, but then again that's the beauty of turbo cars. Reprogram the ecu to allow more boost and wala... more power.

 

[Stiddy]

NSX with 400hp would be nice but let me tell you what I love about my NSX

I used to own a motorcycle. I don't care what anyone says. There is nothing like riding a bike. 0-60 in 5 sec. That's snail pace on a bike.

Then I got married, had three kids, a country club membership & a golf cart. I love going golfing with my kids. But......

When I get in my NSX, take the top off, and go...I feel like I'm on my bike again. It's low to the ground, and I can see the pavement go by. I love taking driveways at an angle. A Corvette, 350z, Porche 911, Supra, just isn't the same to me. Maybe it is to you.

Many people ask me if it's a Ferarri? Corvette? I love telling them:

"No, it's a honda, can do 160+, it starts everyday and gets 24 mpg"

and with today's gas prices who can complain.

Well it's just that simple to me. With the ordeal I'm having (see "oil change nightmare" thread) I am realizing how much I love this car.

I don't have an opinion on the new NSX, I like mine. That being said...if they do make a new one, I'd buy it. And maybe Honda should consider how many current NSX owners would buy a new model if it came out. That in itself might make it worth the effort. :smile: