Factory NSX with supercharger or turbo?

[TURBO2GO]

Bat the Comptech is not "older", it is a different and current system available for sale through CT engineering. As I said before, compressor sizing depends on your goals.

What did you ever do with your SOS laminova intercooler? Did you sell it?

 

[nsxtasy]

It didn't "void" the factory warranty either, because any manufacturer that does that must prove that your malfunction is a result of your modifications. If your radio went out, they can never say "sorry you have a supercharger". So the dealers that installed Comptech took on the risk of mechanical issues with the motor, if there were to be any.

This is not exactly true. As tof notes, this part of the law is difficult to enforce. Yes, if your radio goes out, they can't blame it on the supercharger. But if you encounter engine problems of some sort, they can claim that it was caused by the supercharger and deny coverage under Acura's warranty. And the Comptech warranty covers their supercharger, but not the entire engine. I think you hit the nail on the head when you later posted:

For warranty, a large amount of discretion comes from the dealer and service manager. They can get plenty of things passed onto Honda and never even mention their own installed SC if they want to. Of course if they did the install, they will try to do that for their own clients.

So warranty coverage on the rest of the car can be denied if the dealer claims the problem was caused by the supercharger.

Don't forget that it was Acura / Honda who installed these systems.

Not exactly. The systems were often installed by an Acura DEALER, which creates no liability for warranty coverage on the part of Acura Division of Honda Motor Company. Remember, dealers are separate businesses, franchised by Acura/Honda to sell the cars and parts, and they have various other arrangements. But installation of non-Acura/Honda parts, including Comptech parts, does not create any obligation for Acura Division or any other dealer to provide warranty coverage.

Oh, and for the most part, the point is now moot, because most NSX warranties have expired by now, even seven-year extended warranties.

 

[RYU]

I can't imagine that there would be any downside of the SOS SC compared to the older comptech ones.

Personally I think a TVS 2300 blower that is used on the ZR-1 is the best one for the NSX. Anything larger than that and u really have challenges in parastatic loses on running the blower pulley.

The SOS SC 2.1 is pretty darn good but since my goal was to hit 1 bar of boost on pump gas with no meth injection I was told that 13psi was the max efficiency for it. So the 2.3 would have been better for me.

Not saying SOS SC is better or worse than the CTSC. It's just a different solution depending on what the owner wants. Some might say higher maintenance solution but some might say the rewards are worth it.

So what did you have to do?
1. You bought the SOS SC blower and their intercooler
2. You installed it but needed a custom tune.
3. Something blew your stock motor with this same SOS SC (would still love to know what it was so we all can learn and prevent it from happening to ours btw)
4. You rebuilt your new engine to the hilt (damn impressive build too!)
5. You picked up a full on Electronic Engine Mgmt System which requires 1 or more custom tuning sessions.
6... etc, etc, There's more to come i'm sure.

This process is very fun for some people. It's a pain in the ass for some. The CTSC list is less complicated with perhaps fractionally less reward. Now pick one!

(Let's set CARB issues aside on this one)

 

[TURBO2GO]

He also ditched his laminova intercooler for Shad's intercooler. Ryu is kinda right bat... The CTSC is a bolt on with not a minute of tuning needed.

 

[RYU]

He also ditched his laminova intercooler for Shad's intercooler. Ryu is kinda right bat... The CTSC is a bolt on with not a minute of tuning needed.

And to be fair... the stock CTSC heat soaks for any prolonged aggressive driving like one would do on the track. The tune is also a bit crude. Safe but crude. A tune with a EMS/piggyback will yield better resolution and refinement resulting in a flatter peaks and valleys the AFR sees.

Is it worth it? You be the judge.

 

[TURBO2GO]

If its crude, it's a really good crude. I'll post my AFRs at every RPM they measure steady and just on the safe rich side.

Nothing is perfect, but this is a really safe system. You give up some power for safety. It's not insanely powerful I'm sure bats car would put out much more but easy peasy simple is good too.

 

[BATMANs]

Bat the Comptech is not "older", it is a different and current system available for sale through CT engineering. As I said before, compressor sizing depends on your goals.

What did you ever do with your SOS laminova intercooler? Did you sell it?

Older design that's still being sold.

SOS laminova was swapped out at Driving Ambition. I forgot if i got $$$ or had to pay for it since there was other stuff and if there was some $$$ it wasn't anything worth remembering considering the amount of $$$ I spent on the SOS SC and Engine build project which was sizeable.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Did shad not care for the laminova?

 

[BATMANs]

My responses are embedded in bold below

Not saying SOS SC is better or worse than the CTSC. It's just a different solution depending on what the owner wants. Some might say higher maintenance solution but some might say the rewards are worth it.

So what did you have to do?
1. You bought the SOS SC blower and their intercooler
Yes
2. You installed it but needed a custom tune.
Yes
3. Something blew your stock motor with this same SOS SC (would still love to know what it was so we all can learn and prevent it from happening to ours btw)
Both my engine and Patchez blew up. He had the Angus kit with less PSI ( I think it was 8psi~) on a stock block and mines grenaded at 11psi~. The ONLY thing that we had in common was that it was tuned at Driving Ambition. At first we both thought it was detonation which could be part of a bad tune, but in both of our cases the typical signs of detonation where the tops of the piston face would be cracked wasn't there. When the heads were pulled off the pistons looked perfect. No unusual carbon build up, oil, cracks or anything. It was when the engine was pulled apart that I saw that all of my piston primary ring lands were cracked. 2 of my pistons had the secondary ring lands cracked which explained the 50% leakage.

I know what detonated pistons looks like since that is exactly what happened with my GTO block from an agressive tune mixed with some bad pump gas.

My conclusion is that the stock pistons just simply can't take anything more than the dynamic pressures from a Comptech low boost setup is.

If the SOS SC came with a low boost option like the comptech then I will say with confidence that the reliability is no different than the CTSC kit.

But if the SOS SC didn't deliver more power no one would really be interested in buying it due to the price point.

4. You rebuilt your new engine to the hilt (damn impressive build too!)
Yes. It should be able to handle 700HP to the crank. I don't think it will ever see that sorta power since I don't plan on going past 15psi if I go with a larger blower or go turbos. But I do live in California and making a turbo'd car pass the visual is much harder than a SOS SC setup. Maybe I'll have to buy that cabin in the Nevada side of Tahoe and register my NSX there and make sure that I have a NV Drivers License on my person at all times.

5. You picked up a full on Electronic Engine Mgmt System which requires 1 or more custom tuning sessions.

Only because the AEM EMS 2 came after I got the SOS SC. If it was offered when I had the kit then I can't imagine that there would any more $$$ in tuning and setup.

6... etc, etc, There's more to come i'm sure.
I can't imagine so....

This process is very fun for some people. It's a pain in the ass for some. The CTSC list is less complicated with perhaps fractionally less reward. Now pick one!

(Let's set CARB issues aside on this one)

I driven the low boost CTSC and it's not worth the time and $$$$. The power increases didn't impress me since the TQ curve isn't like a large block engine and the power is delivered linear.

I would rather save the $$$ altogether or prepare $$$ for the SOS SC + engine build.

 

[RYU]

My responses are embedded in bold below



I driven the low boost CTSC and it's not worth the time and $$$$. The power increases didn't impress me since the TQ curve isn't like a large block engine and the power is delivered linear.

I would rather save the $$$ altogether or prepare $$$ for the SOS SC + engine build.

Thanks for feedback Bats. Very helpful comments especially on the ring lands.

Also, agree on the cost of the CTSC in general being too high. There are quality kits for other Imports/Domestic in the $4-7k range (installed). Which makes the CTSC'd NSX a bargain in the used market really...

 

[BATMANs]

Did shad not care for the laminova?

Well both Shad and Chris at SOS are pretty tight.

When I was there Chris would call him. Could be business, advice, sharing knowledge base, etc. I dunno the details.

Shad and I observed that the SOS Laminova did restrict a few lbs of boost. In the Laminova setup I was told that I had a 13psi pulley and my boost dropped to 10~11psi. The boost fluctuated towards the top since there appeared to be so much turbulence that may have had a slight stall effect.

I wasn't motivated to change from the Laminova to Shad's track proven IC until I had that o-ring leak in the Laminova. I was concerned that even if the leak was fixed there is a chance that it could happen in the future and I would run the risk of hydrolocking the engine if the leak was severe enough.

I applaud SOS for thinking of the Laminova since it would be an appropriate mate to the KB Twin Screw blower in terms of the machine design and level of precision. But the problem was that the SOS IC Laminova was really limited to just 4 cores. if it had 1-2 more cores there would have been less boost drop. I don't think that is possible with the limited space.

With Shad's IC we were able to use a 10psi pulley since there was virtually no boost drop. This means that you don't have to over spin and heat up your blower charge temps and then make the IC try to cool it down.

 

[BATMANs]

Thanks for feedback Bats. Very helpful comments especially on the ring lands.

Also, agree on the cost of the CTSC in general being too high. There are quality kits for other Imports/Domestic in the $4-7k range (installed). Which makes the CTSC'd NSX a bargain in the used market really...

No prob.

I have all 3 types of blower types that are sold in the mass market for cars:

Twin Screw (NSX)
Roots (GTO)
Centrifugal (4.3 V6 S-10)

The BBSC was a great idea since of all the blowers out there the Centrifugal makes the least amount of heat. So having an intercooler wasn't really required. Unlike the positive displacement blowers it doesn't really compress the air. It throws the air.

Only other food for thought is that Centrifugal blowers are not really good if you want lower end power. It's like a turbo where it really relies on the high RPMs to get it going.

I don't know much details on the BBSC but from what I've seen, Centrifugal blowers seems to be all over the place on quality and a good design.

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My blower for the truck is made by www.wynjammer.com and there is no oil system required for the bearings since it's a ceramic bearing. The other brands usually have an oiling system that shares the engine crankcase oil which I am rather nervous about since if the blower, lines and or engine were to loose oil it would take out everything in that closed loop oil system that depended on the oil.

Newer centrifugal designs seem to have enclosed seperate oil like the other 2 blowers.

 

[BATMANs]

As I've mentioned in other threads I really think that those people that have a need for that crankcase over flow part really should be doing a leak down test.

Since my and Patchez engine rebuild neither one of use ever had an issue that would warrante procuring that part.

 

[NetViper]

Bats,

Yours grenaded at 11 psi? Isn't 10 psi stock on that set up?

 

[BATMANs]

it flutuates due to the Laminova turbulence.

BUt the kaboom was just too much dynamic pressures instead of detonation.

I was spinning my 275 Dunlop star specs from a roll start through all of 1st gear and when the car hit vtec in 2nd gear. 3rd+ was solid.

 

[NetViper]

it flutuates due to the Laminova turbulence.

BUt the kaboom was just too much dynamic pressures instead of detonation.

I was spinning my 275 Dunlop star specs from a roll start through all of 1st gear and when the car hit vtec in 2nd gear. 3rd+ was solid.

That is what scares me about the SOS SC. I think it is a lot of boost for a stock motor. Sure, it makes a lot more power than the CTSC, but is it worth the extra risk? I don't know.

I am happy with my lowly 6lbs of boost.:biggrin:

 

[BATMANs]

That is what scares me about the SOS SC. I think it is a lot of boost for a stock motor. Sure, it makes a lot more power than the CTSC, but is it worth the extra risk? I don't know.

I am happy with my lowly 6lbs of boost.:biggrin:

You do realize that you can have the SOS SC in low boost mode with the proper pulley?

What you should be getting with a larger blower is more efficiency so that at the same psi, let's say 6psi, your charge temps should be lower in the SO SC than in the CTSC, which has to work "harder" to deliver the same boost.

The advantage between the SOS SC and the CTSC is that the SOS SC is better suited to "grow" with your power requirements should you want to go that route.

It's cheaper to buy the right one for your long term goals than to "upgrade" from the puny blower. No depreciation of the puny blower and the non-recoverable costs of removing and replacing.

:biggrin:

 

[RYU]

You do realize that you can have the SOS SC in low boost mode with the proper pulley?

What you should be getting with a larger blower is more efficiency so that at the same psi, let's say 6psi, your charge temps should be lower in the SO SC than in the CTSC, which has to work "harder" to deliver the same boost.

The advantage between the SOS SC and the CTSC is that the SOS SC is better suited to "grow" with your power requirements should you want to go that route.

It's cheaper to buy the right one for your long term goals than to "upgrade" from the puny blower. No depreciation of the puny blower and the non-recoverable costs of removing and replacing.

:biggrin:

Bats, while I agree with you in that a bigger displacement blower will tend to run marginally cooler IATs, there's a bit of science involved with properly sizing a blower to an engine. RPM, displacement of blower, and displacement of engine, etc... are involved resulting in greater efficiencies at a given rpm with one blower vs. the other. I started researching this then realized i'm not smart enough and had better things to do like go surfing!