Experienced Trackers - How are you Insuring Yourself?
- Thread starter Liquid
- Start date
This thread is depressing - time to go drive my car.
I agree. I hope I never find out how my insurance company would treat an on-track incident. But if and when it occurs, I'd file a claim and see what happens. That's not exactly the same thing as self-insuring (although it's possible it might turn out that way).
I am talking about rollovers, body damage. Obviously not mechanical damage. You can do the money shift on the streets too.
2% - that would mean 2/100 cars every wknd. It that true for any body else? That would mean 3-4 car per thedriversedge event. That is absolutely not true in my experience. Last wknd - there was an event at MSR - 0 incidents. A month before that 180 students+40 instructors. One instructor bumped his elise going backwards into a tire barrier. It was at less than 10 MPH but its an elise. So that was 1/220 cars over 2 days. At another event in March. 1 instructor did some damage to his Corvette when his brakes were completely toast. Again - thats 1/200+ cars. That is 0.5% and even that is high for Texas.
PCA - They rarely have any incidents at all. Partially b/c of less cars and partially because they are driving at 7/10ths.
We have 3 major tracks in Texas. TWS - has 1 tire barrier that can be struck going CW. The 3.1 mile MSR has 2 corners that have potential for tire barrier contact. Eagles Canyon Racing in Decatur(North of FW) is new and relatively safe. Unfortunately the track has big rocks in you go off that can do some damage to the underbody. We don't have anything like Watkins Glen around here.
Don't EVER track your car at an event where the organizer doesn't carry 3rd party liability. Most do.
Putting the car on the line is one thing. Everything - different story.
Dan
I have been trying to encourage everyone to read their policies for several years now. Many years ago I represented a carrier who was trying to avoid paying an HPDE claim at Lime Rock where a PCA member totaled his Porsche. He had the agent look at the car with the numbers still on it, harnesses in place and the helmet in the passenger seat. The agent was unaware that there was such a thing as HPDE and the carrier thought they should not have to pay. Shortly after that their policy language excluded all track driving including HPDE.
I know by a simple reading of my policy that I have NO COVERAGE of any kind for track driving, i.e. I am self-insured for all losses. Based upon my work in the general liability defense litigation field including representing several major insurance carriers, I can safely estimate that probably 90% OF YOU HAVE NO COVERAGE as well.
I cannot stress enough how important it is that each and every one of us who decides to track the car MUST READ THEIR POLICY EXCLUSIONS. I don't want to come off as preachy but I don't understand why I continue to have to point this out several years after most major carriers began excluding such track events. Yet I continue to read here on Prime that people say they will wait until something happens and then submit the claim to see what the carrier will say. Virtually every policy these days is unambiguous in its exclusionary language and there is no reason why anyone should even sign up for a track day without assessing and weighing the risk potentional based upon the potential lack of coverage.
p.s. I don't mean to attack or insult my favorite "film critic" DocJohn but I know that he will just call me for free legal advice just as quickly as he calls me for an opinion about an L4-5 annular tear. This soapbox moment is geared more toward the novices and persons who are unable to afford to be "self-insured" but prefer to ignore the potential consequences by not reading their policies in advance.
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Knowing the risks, I'd have to say that if anyone has a loan on their vehicle that it would be wise to stay off the track.
I'll be asking you to help me drag my car to the nearest interstate and to claim you cut me off:tongue:
Anything for you pumpkin.......:wink:
That's correct. It would also mean 1/50 cars, and 3/150 cars. :biggrin:
As I noted above, some tracks tend to be safer than others. Motorsport Ranch, which I've driven, is one of the safer tracks, a "club" track with lots of runoff room most of the way around the track. The "roval" at Texas Motor Speedway (the one north of Fort Worth) is less safe, not only because of the oval portion, but also because of all the concrete around the infield course. That's generally true of "roval" configurations.
Could the percentage be less than 2 percent? Maybe. For example, at Road America (4.0 miles, 130 students, ~70 instructors) we usually have 2-5 incidents with body damage per three-day weekend. Then again, I go to events at GingerMan and Putnam Park (1.8 miles, 60 students, ~35 instructors) and we usually have 0 incidents there. So maybe the precise figure is closer to 1 percent than 2 percent. I can assure you that it's not 0.14 percent.
How can you have 180 students and 40 instructors? For one thing, that leaves a whole lot of students without instructors. But aside from that, with the typical four student groups, that puts 45 cars out on the track at the same time. Huh? I don't know of any track in the country where you can have an HPDE event with 45 cars on the track at the same time in anything approaching an organized and safe manner. Heck, Road America, at 4 miles, is maybe the longest track in the country, and we can only put out about 30-33 cars at a time. I really don't understand how you can have 200+ cars in a track event.
It's possible that has something to do with what you've seen in your area. The big spectator venues put up concrete and armco to protect the tens of thousands of spectators, although it makes the track more dangerous for the cars and drivers. So the famous places that do the big spectator events - Road America, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, etc - are the ones with above average numbers of incidents, while the club tracks with tons of runoff room (Motorsport Ranch, Roebling Road, GingerMan, Putnam Park, Spring Mountain, BeaveRun, Mid-America Motorplex, etc) tend to be below average. If your observations are limited to the club tracks in your area, your experience may be below average. Similarly, if you live where it never rains, your experience may also be below average.
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We (www.MVPTrackTime.com) have been searching for on-track insurance to point our attendees to for a while. Through the track day grape vine, we found:
Ryan Staub
Lockton Affinity Insurance Group
PO Box 410679
Kansas City, MO 64141
Tel: 913.652.7588
Mobile: 913.908.7280
Fax: 913.652.4588
Email: [email protected]
It covers on track and you can purchase it event by event. Just an FYI!
Mark Pfeffer
Ryan Staub
Lockton Affinity Insurance Group
PO Box 410679
Kansas City, MO 64141
Tel: 913.652.7588
Mobile: 913.908.7280
Fax: 913.652.4588
Email: [email protected]
It covers on track and you can purchase it event by event. Just an FYI!
Mark Pfeffer
MotorsportReg.com and Lockton Affinity Launch Innovative Track Insurance Program
By Mark Dadgar, Pukka Software
Los Gatos, CA (July 29, 2008) – Pukka Software, creators of MotorsportReg.com, and Lockton Affinity today announced the industry’s first comprehensive insurance program for high performance driving event participants. The HPDE Insurance Program, available exclusively via MotorsportReg.com, provides an a la carte, single-event policy designed to provide affordable physical damage coverage to cars used in performance driving schools at race tracks across the United States.
"Many automotive insurance policies now exclude coverage for non-competitive events at motor racing facilities," said Pukka Software founder Brian Ghidinelli. "The HPDE Insurance Program allows enthusiasts to participate in exciting high performance driving schools without risking the vehicle they drive every day."
The HPDE Insurance Program, administered by Lockton Risk Services, offers an agreed-value insurance policy providing primary coverage for incidents in the paddock or on the racing surface whether the vehicle is being driven by the primary driver, co-driver, or instructor. After-market modifications are covered and claims will not affect participants’ street insurance rates or claim histories. $10,000 of damage coverage can be had for as little as $67. HPDE Insurance Program policies are sold online and can be obtained as quickly as 5-10 minutes.
"Car enthusiasts have been asking for an affordable means of insuring their vehicles at driving schools for years," said Ryan Staub, Producer at Lockton Affinity. "We partnered with the most widely adopted event registration service to make this coverage easy to acquire. By offering the HPDE Insurance Program during the registration process, MotorsportReg.com event organizers will tap into additional participants who could not previously join in the fun."
The HPDE Insurance Program is initially available to attendees of non-competitive driving events hosted by BMW Car Club of America, Porsche Club of America, Audi Club North America, and Triangle-Z Car Club. Other organizations wishing to have their programs approved for the HPDE Insurance Program should contact Lockton Affinity.
http://www.justracing.com/features/2008_motorsportreg_track_insurance
By Mark Dadgar, Pukka Software
Los Gatos, CA (July 29, 2008) – Pukka Software, creators of MotorsportReg.com, and Lockton Affinity today announced the industry’s first comprehensive insurance program for high performance driving event participants. The HPDE Insurance Program, available exclusively via MotorsportReg.com, provides an a la carte, single-event policy designed to provide affordable physical damage coverage to cars used in performance driving schools at race tracks across the United States.
"Many automotive insurance policies now exclude coverage for non-competitive events at motor racing facilities," said Pukka Software founder Brian Ghidinelli. "The HPDE Insurance Program allows enthusiasts to participate in exciting high performance driving schools without risking the vehicle they drive every day."
The HPDE Insurance Program, administered by Lockton Risk Services, offers an agreed-value insurance policy providing primary coverage for incidents in the paddock or on the racing surface whether the vehicle is being driven by the primary driver, co-driver, or instructor. After-market modifications are covered and claims will not affect participants’ street insurance rates or claim histories. $10,000 of damage coverage can be had for as little as $67. HPDE Insurance Program policies are sold online and can be obtained as quickly as 5-10 minutes.
"Car enthusiasts have been asking for an affordable means of insuring their vehicles at driving schools for years," said Ryan Staub, Producer at Lockton Affinity. "We partnered with the most widely adopted event registration service to make this coverage easy to acquire. By offering the HPDE Insurance Program during the registration process, MotorsportReg.com event organizers will tap into additional participants who could not previously join in the fun."
The HPDE Insurance Program is initially available to attendees of non-competitive driving events hosted by BMW Car Club of America, Porsche Club of America, Audi Club North America, and Triangle-Z Car Club. Other organizations wishing to have their programs approved for the HPDE Insurance Program should contact Lockton Affinity.
http://www.justracing.com/features/2008_motorsportreg_track_insurance