Evolution Imports would import an NSX-R if...

[Rubber Chicken]

They knew that they'd have enough buyers for the price at which they'd be selling them ($$$ see below)

I called Evolution Imports today. (EI imports RSX Type R's, Evolution VII's and Evolution VIII's www.evolutionimports.com

And asked them about how they manage to get by marking up their vehicles only 5k while motorex marks up their skylines 25k.

He says their prices are the way they are (fairly cheap) because they can claim similarity to a car sold here in the states.

ITR -> RSX
Evo -> Lancer

Consequently the entire legalization process, paperwork, etc, only costs around $300,000. This is because they don't have to crash test the vehicles.

Motorex on the other hand, could not claim similarity on the Skyline and DID have to crash test it. The gentleman I spoke to on the phone said that legalization WITH crash testing would run up to $1,500,000. Big difference from 300k.

So if EI sells 60 ITR's with a 5k markup, its made up the difference in legalization costs. ($300k)

If Motorex sells 60 GT-R's with a 25k markup, its made up the difference in legalization costs ($1.5 M)

I asked him about specific vehicles, such as the NSX-R.

They've already sold 2 NSX-R's outside the US (to some Arabian Royalty families or something) for $185k each.

He said that in order for it to be anywhere close to worth it, they'd have to sell 15-20 units for well over MSRP (JDM MSRP = $113k) So I'm assuming around $150k or so.

Then both he and I agreed that's probably not a realistic assumption. But he did say that it was something they had looked into.

S15 Silvia's. No similarity clause, so ~1.5M to legalize. Not a realistic option either sad to say.

I also asked him about JDM Supra's and Rx7's. And he said they wanted to aim more at niche cars that had no real current equivalent in the US. I agreed, the ITR is a good choice, and for now, the Evo VII as well.

Heck there still may be some ppl who don't want the oogly ass Evo VIII front end, and who also want the AYC and center diff, and are willing to pay ~4k more for it.

Sorry for the long post.


[This message has been edited by Rubber Chicken (edited 07 March 2003).]

 

[ck]

Every comapny that I've heard of that does these "racer" imports, other than Motorex, obtains their vehicles from unscrupulous means. I know of people that are purchasing insurance payout cars in Japan, (salvage, stolen) etc. and reselling them in the States as non-street legal. It is the only way for them to profitably sell those kind of cars. I will bet you they are no where near selling 60 ITR's.

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 07 March 2003).]

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by ck:
Every comapny that I've heard of that does these "racer" imports, other than Motorex, obtains their vehicles from unscrupulous means. I know of people that are purchasing insurance payout cars in Japan, (salvage, stolen) etc. and reselling them in the States as non-street legal. It is the only way for them to profitably sell those kind of cars. I will bet you they are no where near selling 60 ITR's.

Though EI is not a registered importer, they are going through another company, GNK who is. EI has already submitted the paperwork for becoming an RI, and they've said it'll be about 6 months before they become the official US Registered Importer for DC5 Integra Type R's and Evolution VII's and VIII's.

The cars are also sold brand new, with no miles (well maybe 2-10 miles or so) on them.

They haven't actually started selling the RSX's yet, because the paperwork hasn't come through. But if you consider the fact that people are willing to pay 29-45k for a 10 year old used R32 GT-R, don't you think they'd part with 28k for a BRAND NEW ITR?

RSX-S's go for 24k. ITR's in Japan probably retail for 25-26k. 28k for a truly unique vehicle, Hand built just like your NSX. Each one numbered from the factory.

And you're telling me these RSX-R's won't sell?

They've already sold several Evolutions...

:dunno: You're entitled to your own opinion.

//edit: Although I do agree with you that sites like www.j-garage.com , www.bestjapancar.com , www.gctautos.com , and www.rcsintjapan.co.uk need to be approached cautiously, after speaking on the phone with this gentleman, he seems to know the market and EI's place in that market very well.

[This message has been edited by Rubber Chicken (edited 07 March 2003).]

 

[NoClgDeg]

Evolution VII's and VIII's.

The 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VIII is here right now at our dealership ready for delivery. We currently have 2 Yellow's and one Black. Brand new with no grey market status, a 3/36 warranty and financing available. This EVO will eat almost any rice rocket up in the street in stock trim. Even more so if you want to fuck with it.


------------------
91 Red/Ivory #2061
K&N Filter, DC Headers, DaliRacing Chip

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by NoClgDeg:
The 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VIII is here right now at our dealership ready for delivery. We currently have 2 Yellow's and one Black. Brand new with no grey market status, a 3/36 warranty and financing available. This EVO will eat almost any rice rocket up in the street in stock trim. Even more so if you want to fuck with it.

With Active Yaw Control? And a Computer Controlled Center Differential? Selectable Snow, Tarmac, and Gravel Conditions? I'm sure there's a ton more other things Mitsu isn't telling you.

Let me repeat that Evolution Imports does not sell GRAY MARKET vehicles. They're 100% legal, in every way shape and form. And yes they do come with warranties.

Also, this may be my personal opinion, (but I've also seen/heard it as virtually the vast majority) that the Evolution VII's front end looks 200% better than the oogly ass VIII's triangle nose-thing wannabe.

These Evo's will eat up any rice rocket on the street in stock trim just as much as the USDM models. Moreso in fact because of the more advanced drivetrain.

[This message has been edited by Rubber Chicken (edited 07 March 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by NoClgDeg:
The 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VIII is here right now at our dealership ready for delivery.

The version sold in the United States is called the Evolution, not the Evo. Mitsubishi does not have the legal right to use the Evo name in the States.

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
Let me repeat that Evolution Imports does not sell GRAY MARKET vehicles.

I thought a gray market vehicle is one that was built for another market and is imported by someone other than the manufacturer. Which is exactly what this sounds like.

I'm not disputing their legality, only the term "gray market" and why it does, or doesn't, apply to them.

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
And yes they do come with warranties.

Warranties from whom? If it's a JDM Integra Type R (the body style known as the RSX in the States), then American Honda and your friendly Acura dealer are not going to provide any warranty coverage at all. If there is a problem, where do you go to have it repaired, and how does the warranty coverage work? Does that mean that you can have it repaired by your dealer, but you have to pay for the repair and then get reimbursed? What if there is a dispute about whether or not it's covered under warranty?

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I thought a gray market vehicle is one that was built for another market and is imported by someone other than the manufacturer. Which is exactly what this sounds like.

I'm not disputing their legality, only the term "gray market" and why it does, or doesn't, apply to them.

I always took 'gray market' to have a negative/shady connotation. As in the only poeple that had gray market cars were those who did some kind of switcheroo with VIN's, or those who had connections inside and were involved with fraudulent dealings.

So to be clear, let me clarify, "These Evolution VII's and VIII's are obtained and sold by all perfectly legal means. I would be absolutely at home letting DOT, EPA, NHTSA, OSHA, (whoever you want) inspect the car, the company, and the process, if I was to buy one."

If indeed gray market means "intended for another market." What the hell differene does it make if its a gray market vehicle. Porsche 959's are gray market vehicles as well. Who's baggin on them?

Warranties from whom?

You'd have to call them about that. They'd know a million times better than I do how to answer that question.


All in all though guys, this is a thread basically about the NSX-R. And if there were 15-20 of you (or anyone out there) that wanted one and were willing to pay ~$150k for it, owning a street legal NSX-R in the US may be a reality.

If there's another JDM vehicle that has a substantially similar model in the US that you think there would be a lot of demand for, I suggest you send EI an email. They're very open to new ideas/options.

In fact they started out with only EvoVII's. They've since expanded to Evo VIII's, STi's and ITR's. So I'm sure if you prove to them that there's enough demand, I'm sure they'll be willing to at least look into it.

GS300's in Japan come with the Supra's 2jz-gte as an option...

Evolution VI's are a consideration as well. (they might already be working on this) IMO they're the best looking Evolutions period.

I'm sure the way the market it is for used Supra's right now, some people would all but KILL for a virtually brand new one. Rx7's as well considering their oh so spotless reliability record

Those are just some ideas...

 

[matteni]

The street price for a new NSX-T is about 75k. That is a BIG difference between 75 and 150. Does that include making it a left hand drive car? I can't even imagine the time and cost to do that!

I bet you could find a perfect early model coupe and import every single part to convert to an 02 type R, have it installed, and still have enough left over to buy a supercharger!

Not to discourage it as I think knowing a type R was here in the states would be a big attraction to many of us. Can you imagine the line at NSXpo to take a picture next to it?

------------------
Nick M

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids

 

[nsx_parts]

good point!

------------------
Please visit http://www.nsxparts.com. The best place to buy and sell parts for your NSX.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by matteni:
The street price for a new NSX-T is about 75k. That is a BIG difference between 75 and 150. Does that include making it a left hand drive car? I can't even imagine the time and cost to do that!

An NSX-T is most definitely NOT an NSX-R though.

NSX-R's MSRP is ~$113,000.

So compare the NSX-R's 113k to the ~150k

They'd have to sell 9 units just to break even. And probably 15-20 to make it worth the profit. Do you really think there are 20 DIE HARD Honda fans rich and willing enough to pay 150k for an NSX-R?

All the cars they sell that are US Street Legal are LHD. That conversion is included in the cost. Now do you see why a 5k markup on an ITR is not a bad deal at all?

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
Do you really think there are 20 DIE HARD Honda fans rich and willing enough to pay 150k for an NSX-R?

No. They had a tough time finding 49 die hard Honda fans willing enough to pay half that much for each of the Zanardis when they came out.

 

[NoClgDeg]

Nsxtasy,

Thank you so much for pointing out that the car is a Evolution.

EVO is an abbreviation. We have 3 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII's. Two of them are finished in Lighting Yellow Pearl and the other is Black, oh I mean Tarmac Black.

------------------
91 Red/Ivory #2061
K&N Filter, DC Headers, DaliRacing Chip

 

[mlambert890]

I think it's possible that there'd be 20 people willing to buy the NSX-R. They may not be on this list, but I think they're out there.

If this company is serious about this as a business possibility they should do some serious homework of their own. They should advertise the possibility on their site, in some high-end exotic forums, etc. and see if they get interest.

I've heard many times on this forum how people would buy an R in a second if they could get it here. Well, $150k isn't all that much more than $113k if you can actually afford $113k. Here may be a chance to actually get one.

 

[ck]

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
Though EI is not a registered importer, they are going through another company, GNK who is. EI has already submitted the paperwork for becoming an RI, and they've said it'll be about 6 months before they become the official US Registered Importer for DC5 Integra Type R's and Evolution VII's and VIII's.

The cars are also sold brand new, with no miles (well maybe 2-10 miles or so) on them.

They haven't actually started selling the RSX's yet, because the paperwork hasn't come through. But if you consider the fact that people are willing to pay 29-45k for a 10 year old used R32 GT-R, don't you think they'd part with 28k for a BRAND NEW ITR?

RSX-S's go for 24k. ITR's in Japan probably retail for 25-26k. 28k for a truly unique vehicle, Hand built just like your NSX. Each one numbered from the factory.

And you're telling me these RSX-R's won't sell?

They've already sold several Evolutions...

[This message has been edited by Rubber Chicken (edited 07 March 2003).]

Why would they even begin to go into business and advertise cars as their own when they are obtaining the right to sell through a third party?

Where is the profit in selling a $26k car for $28k after going through a third party, shipping, etc.? I know, there is none, and that is why "They haven't actually started selling the RSX's yet". Or, this is a non-profit dealership.

On their website, all of the vehicles listed at the "low" prices are not street legal and need LHD conversions. That would drive the prices up considerably by itself.

I also do not agree that many people are willing to purchase Skylines, ITR's, etc. I would bet that less than 50 Skylines have been sold in the U.S. I'm sure there are many 15 year olds who claim that they would buy one in a second, but few actually do.

[This message has been edited by ck (edited 10 March 2003).]

 

[ck]

These are "GRAY MARKET" vehicles as Ken had described and will most definitely not be warrantied by the manufacturer. I guess Evolution Imports will provide the warranty although they are not yet an authorized importer or dealer, I assume?

Even Ferrari North America fights to warranty the Euro cars.

 

[ck]

One more Red Flag. Evolution Imports lists their address as a P.O. Box?!

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by ck:
Why would they even begin to go into business and advertise cars as their own when they are obtaining the right to sell through a third party?

I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here.

The third party is importing these vehciles. EI is legalizing them, filing paperwork, doing conversions, packaging the cars, advertising, and selling them.

A friend of mine is a distributor for Apex'i parts, I'm not gonna find an Apex'i factory in his back yard, nor would I even find that he stocks any Apex'i parts in any great number. He sells them. He doesn't get them from Japan, he gets them from someone who imports them from Japan. Is he a shady businessman? Because if he is, I'm sure thousands of distributors across the US would beg to differ.

Where is the profit in selling a $26k car for $28k after going through a third party, shipping, etc.? I know, there is none, and that is why "They haven't actually started selling the RSX's yet". Or, this is a non-profit dealership.

They've sold quite a few Evolutions. I already stated that above. Why are you ignoring that fact. They've just started into the RSX market, and I'm sure they're working out a lot of kinks.

Mitsu of NA announced the MSRP of Evolutions on Jan. 1st of this year, and I haven't seen one on the road yet, or even at the dealer.

What business of mine is it anyways to question how they make money, unless its blatently obvious they work something like a pawn shop, which I highly highly doubt.

Why look a gift horse in the mouth? Its a good thing, man.

On their website, all of the vehicles listed at the "low" prices are not street legal and need LHD conversions. That would drive the prices up considerably by itself.

An Evolution VII brand new, LHD and street legal is $34,500. Faster around a track, and (better looking IMO) than the coming USDM Evolution VIII, which MSRP's for 29k (also note that only 12 dealers in the US are saying that they will sell Evolutions for MSRP, that leaves the vast majority of Mitsubishi dealers marking up their car. Not to get off-topic, but the S2000 didn't even having a racing legacy before it arrived, and it received up to 5-7 thousand dollars worth of hype from the dealers, I can only imagine what the dealer markup for the Evo's will be)

I also do not agree that many people are willing to purchase Skylines, ITR's, etc. I would bet that less than 50 Skylines have been sold in the U.S. I'm sure there are many 15 year olds who claim that they would buy one in a second, but few actually do.

I believe I read on freshalloy.com that motorex said it was over 75. That was a few years ago.

All in all though, I'm just happy to see someone doing what EI is doing. Its good to see that someone is brave and willing enough to provide niche cars to the vast minority of drivers out there that actually enjoy automobiles in their purest form. Kudos to EI for catering to the automotive enthusiast. (And not raping them on the price)

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
Mitsu of NA announced the MSRP of Evolutions on Jan. 1st of this year, and I haven't seen one on the road yet, or even at the dealer.

Then you probably haven't been to your local Mitsu dealer yet, because you can find them in the showrooms.

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
An Evolution VII brand new, LHD and street legal is $34,500.

With no warranty and no factory support.

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
the coming USDM Evolution VIII, which MSRP's for 29k (also note that only 12 dealers in the US are saying that they will sell Evolutions for MSRP, that leaves the vast majority of Mitsubishi dealers marking up their car.

More likely, that leaves the vast majority of Mitsubishi dealers not responding to the question.

Almost every car that has sold above MSRP has sold for sticker or less after it had been on the market for a while. The Evolution 8 will not be an exception.

If EI wants to invest the money on federalizing and importing the NSX-R, more power to them (pun intended

). More choices for the consumer is nearly always a good thing. (However, if it were my own money invested on the highly risky proposition of being able to sell 20 NSX-R cars for $150K each, I think I'd rather spend it playing the lottery.)

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
With no warranty and no factory support.

It comes with a 1 year warranty, and an optional 3 year.

More likely, that leaves the vast majority of Mitsubishi dealers not responding to the question.

Hey I'm just reporting the facts that I hear, not just speculation I've come up with. I read 12, and in fact the names of the 12 dealerships and their locations. I'm not in a position to question the validity of the study. They are the experts, not me. If you have any doubts, you can take it up with them. :shrug:

Almost every car that has sold above MSRP has sold for sticker or less after it had been on the market for a while.

Key words: "For a while"

You can buy EI's Evo VII NOW.

If EI wants to invest the money on federalizing and importing the NSX-R, more power to them (pun intended

). More choices for the consumer is nearly always a good thing. (However, if it were my own money invested on the highly risky proposition of being able to sell 20 NSX-R cars for $150K each, I think I'd rather spend it playing the lottery.)

Frankly, from the responses I've been seeing here, I dont think Honda of America could sell 20 NSX-R's at the $113k MSRP.

 

[matteni]

Are the prices much different between the US and Japan? It has been reported you can get an 02/03 for the mid 70's even though the MSRP is high 80's. Is the same true in Japan?

Not that anyone is asking but if Honda made the typeR the only coupe offering and it was close in price to the current street price - they may have a winner (winner = 50 cars or so).

That said it has been more then hinted through the years that - on it's own - the NSX has not made Honda money - and - at the volumes they have seen since the first year they would have to charge a LOT more to break even.

I can find no logic in having the NSX as a money loosing halo car that to many people is comparatively underpowered and unchanged in 12 years of production and has such a big price difference between MSRP and street (isn't the trend to make these closer and not scare people away?)

So since there is no logic in continuing the current production - why NOT bring the Type R over or at least make it an orderable option?

Oh well - this can go on forever until we get someone on the inside to explain this all to us. Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from an old Jim Croce song: Car Wash Blues

"Tried to find me an executive position
But no matter how smooth I talked
They wouldn't listen to the fact that I was a genius
The man say, We got all that we can use.
Now I got them steadily depressin', low down mind messin'
Working at the car wash blues"

------------------
Nick M

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids

[This message has been edited by matteni (edited 10 March 2003).]

 

[BostonNSX]

If you have been to Japan. And buy Local Japanese products, I bet you see all or most of them printed ( for you in Japan only ) or ( for sale in Japan only ) And if you are a foreigner and tried to buy something, somtimes the salesperson will tell you that it cannot work outside Japan but in fact it would. Most of the "best" Japanese products are reserved to be sold in Japan only, if not, take computer products for example, is a season or so behind the Japanese market.

Originally posted by matteni:


So since there is no logic in continuing the current production - why NOT bring the Type R over or at least make it an orderable option?

 

[ck]

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
I believe I read on freshalloy.com that motorex said it was over 75. That was a few years ago.

All in all though, I'm just happy to see someone doing what EI is doing. Its good to see that someone is brave and willing enough to provide niche cars to the vast minority of drivers out there that actually enjoy automobiles in their purest form. Kudos to EI for catering to the automotive enthusiast. (And not raping them on the price)

Once again, what you are talking about cannot be done without "raping them on the price". If it could, everybody would be doing this.

I agree with you that it's cool to try to import unavailable models to the U.S. for enthusiasts, but I am looking at it from purely a business and practicality standpoint. I know a thing or too about import/export of vehicles and it just isn't that simple. I also don't believe that there are enough enthusiasts of JDM sports cars to sustain a business. Or not enough enthusiasts with $$$, anyways.

I wouldn't believe the numbers of Skylines quoted on a Nissan forum if I were you. Also, the Lancer Evolution is available in at dealers already. Here is one that has a couple: http://www.veracom.com/veracommitsubishi/index.html

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
With no warranty and no factory support.

Originally posted by Rubber Chicken:
It comes with a 1 year warranty, and an optional 3 year.

That may be - but who is providing the warranty, and where do you have to take the car for warranty work on it? Your neighborhood Mitsubishi dealer certainly does not provide the warranty the way they do for cars sold through Mitsubishi's dealership network. Does that mean that if you want service performed under warranty, you have to take it to the post office in Orlando that appears to be EI's headquarters? That would be quite inconvenient for those of us who don't live near the Magic Kingdom.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by ck:
Once again, what you are talking about cannot be done without "raping them on the price". If it could, everybody would be doing this.

So in your opinion, 4-5k is too much to pay for importation, shipping, and conversion (LHD among other things)?

I don't know I guess that the difference in our opinions. I'm pretty hard pressed to find a 5 seater for less than 35k that can lap the Nuremburgring at around 8 seconds.

An M3 does about that, but oh wait, no that'll set me back an addition 20k.

I also don't believe that there are enough enthusiasts of JDM sports cars to sustain a business. Or not enough enthusiasts with $$$, anyways.

I guess only time will tell.

I wouldn't believe the numbers of Skylines quoted on a Nissan forum if I were you.

I think the source was fairly reliable. It was Motorex themselves who stated the figure, not some punk kid with a skyline poster on his wall playing Grand Turismo 3. Believe it or not, Motorex has several employees that are active on freshalloy's Skyline forum.

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
That may be - but who is providing the warranty, and where do you have to take the car for warranty work on it?

You'd have to take that question up with EI themselves. I'm not going to speculate when the answer could be any number of things. Its certainly better than nothing.

How many members on this board bought used NSX's? Used cars have NO warranty (3+ yrs). And if you consider the Evolution in the first place, what other car for 35k can carry 5 ppl and go 0-60 in less than 5?

If you look at the big picture, you'd be getting a steal no matter how much you paid for an Evolution (within reason). How fast does your Family Sedan do 0-60? 8 seconds? 7 seconds? not bad, pretty zippy. How's 4.9?



[This message has been edited by Rubber Chicken (edited 10 March 2003).]