EPS Failure

[Valhalla]

Background; 97' T that I've had all of 6 weeks. Four weeks ago I proceed to start the car. The car was "cold" meaning it hadn't run in 12 hours. I turn the key and the steering wheel turns by itself counter-clockwise (left) full to the stops and EPS idiot light goes on. I now have zero power steering. I figure no big thing, it's a light car right? Wrong, it's like driving an old truck.

So I do some research and read that if you take out the clock fuse for over 10 seconds it will reset the EPS unit. I try that a couple of times and it does reset once then the next time I start the car, the "ghost steering dance" engages again and no EPS.

Next step is to PM BrianK and he suggests I send him the unit for repair. Off it goes in the mail and BrianK repairs the unit. He does tell me that he is not sure if it is fixed as he didn't see any bad parts. He sends the unit back and I plug it back in the three connectors and I have power steering again. In case you have some issues with your EPS in the future, I would highly recommend BrianK as he stayed in touch and was amazingly fast with his turn around time.

The unit worked for 5 days and then the dreaded "steering wheel dance" reared it's ugly head. I contacted BrianK and we both kind of agree that there might be something else at play here, possibly bad connectors or steering rack. So now I am troubleshooting ghosts. Anybody out there experience anything like this and if so, how did you fix it? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[shawn110975]

I actually love my manual steering

feels like a truck? if your at a complete stand still but you give it a little gas and get the wheels turning a tiny bit and it feels just like PS.

unplug it and drive

 

[Valhalla]

Figures you would be the first to take a crack at me! I have unplugged it and I am driving it. But my wife sure can't.

If I can't get it working I will probably just live with it or replace the existing rack with a pre-97' manual rack. I understand it's a direct bolt on replacement. But I sure would like to keep it OEM and just fix the EPS.

 

[nsxter]

Check to see if your car has the "fixed" EPS module. See TSB 97-037. Specifically for 97 up to vin -------vt000309

 

[Valhalla]

NSXTER - thanks for the heads up. I was headed to the local dealership today anyway. I will inquire.

 

[nsxter]

If the TSB was done there should be a "punch" mark above the "J" of the vin in the engine compartment

 

[Bram]

My car is vin #320 and they upgraded the EPS....You may have to call American Honda customer service to get them to upgrade this unit.

good luck.

 

[swerve2007]

while i am no expert in EPS issues it seems you are having a 'controls feedback' issues meaning a sensor is malfunctioning somewhere 'feeding-in' to make your wheel 'dance'.

 

[Valhalla]

Thanks everybody for chiming in. Went to the dealership and checked the vin against the TSB. The car had already been upgraded to the new EPS module. So BrianK's repair was to a new EPS unit.

Talked with Ramon and he did check all connections and steering rack and everything appears normal there. He is of the opinion that a new/used EPS unit is in order and should cure my ills. A new one from Acura is $2174!

I was also wondering if some other sensor was triggering this failure. I know wheel speed (TPS) is involved but not sure what else. I'd just as soon trouble shoot this thing from least expensive to more.

I guess the wife doesn't get to drive my car anymore!

Anyone with a handle on a used unit at a reasonable price?

 

[shawn110975]

I am pretty sure that the 97+ are the same as the 2002+ so if interested i have the unit you need from my 2002 donor car 59K miles works perfectly

and if you need the PS unit I have that to sitting collecting dust PM me if interested.

 

[stevieray122854]

Shawn to the rescue! :biggrin:

 

[sparky]

when you say ''EPS unit'' do you mean the power steering rack itself or one of the EPS control boxes?

 

[shawn110975]

we are working a deal now

 

[Valhalla]

Sparky - there is an EPS power unit or "the brain" in the passenger footwell under the sub woofer. That is the main part with sensors providing it with input that initiates signals that the control box sends to the motor on the steering rack. Depending upon wheel speed, torque on the steering rack and steering angle, it affects how much input is needed. When this stops working, the steering rack is completely manual and not nearly as easy to steer as the manual rack and pinion of the pre-97' manual cars.

Shawn - I'll be in touch soon. Thanks for the offer.

 

[Valhalla]

Update - I purchased Shawn's used unit and installed it. I pulled the fuse just in case before the install. FYI, the 02' unit is the same as the 97' so it is plug-and-play. So after installing I plugged the fuse back in. Fired up the car. The EPS light flickered off for a millisecond and then stayed on. Yep, you guessed it. No EPS.

I pulled the fuse several more times to try and reset the unit. Same results.

Anyone with any ideas? This is beyond frustrating and expensive.

Thanks.

 

[dlynes]

interested as well. My eps has not been working for the last yr or soo...

like everything, i just learned to deal with it...

If I reset the ECU my EPS will work but the second I turn the wheel it shuts off.

 

[stuntman]

Quite often many electric and hydraulic steering racks when 'unplugged' or fail/malfunction, become MUCH heavier and vague than a simple manual rack (like early NSXs).


0.02

 

[shawn110975]

from another thread I found

Briank said Changing the relays is really the only repair you can do short of buying new parts. If the relay replacment was done and did not take care of the problem its likelly your will need a new steering rack. Transmision speed sensors provide signals for the ECU, transmision control unit, EPS, and ALB so if one is bad you should be having other problem then just with the EPS. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o> </o>
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Jett said It is possible to have a bad speed sensor that is affecting only the EPS. When I was having this problem, for a year or so the EPS would only drop out occasionally, but when the speed sensor got worse it started affecting other systems and the EPS was staying off all the time.

If all else fails, I have a used (not rebuilt) EPS module laying around somewhere that we could try. (Why do I have an extra EPS ECM lying around? Because I bought a used one when my EPS was giving trouble, but that turned out to not be the problem.

Let's work the simple things first. To summarize, here is what I would do, listed in order:

a. Check your clock fuse. Even if it appears intact, try replacing it with a new one of the correct amperage.
b. Reconnect your clock if it is disconnected. (This will also tell you if the clock fuse is good.) If you have cut off the connector, you will need to directly splice the wiring together.
c. Replace the NM speed sensor. (Although the listing says for '92-'05, this should fit your car. I realize that this speed sensor is "too cheap", but if we get your car sorted out you could later replace it with a higher quality speed sensor. So first we are going to try spending small money on troubleshooting instead of big money on steering racks. Nothing would suck more than replacing a rack and having that NOT be the problem.)
d. If we get this far, we will go from here...
.
.
.
y. I have a used EPS ECM that you could try. If it solved the problem, I would sell it to you for what I paid for it. If it didn't solve the problem, you could just send it back.
z. If you needed it, I even have a spare clock.

If you haven't already, I recommend downloading the service manual to your computer from this page. You may do this by going to section 1.1 Electronic Copies of the Service Manual, then right-clicking on the top link in that section and selecting "save target as" or "save link as" (depends on which browser you use), which will save a copy of the service manual to your computer. This downloads a .pdf copy of the service manual which is searchable. Simply enter "speed sensor" at the top and it will search for each mention of the words "speed sensor" in the service manual. You will find numerous mentions of the speed sensors as you search the manual.

Here is a link to my old thread on the topic. The EPS on my automatic is still rock steady after having replaced the NM speed sensor.

When either of you reply, please describe as thoroughly and as specifically as possible the problem(s) that you are experiencing with your EPS or other systems. I really want to help both of you get this sorted out and avoid buying unnecessary, expensive parts. Don't panic!! I don't think either one of you need a new rack. I think you just need to get some electronic gremlins sorted out.<o></o>

 

[shawn110975]

LARRY B said in another thread

Sounds like your EPS unit has been disconnected:smile:. This will certainly keep the light off and not give you PS. Probably disconnected due to the failure.

The 1997 Service Bulletin only applies to the 1997 and it was for a minor change to do with moving the wheel during the initial test sequence the unit goes through when you start the car, and falsely setting the EPS fail light. I do not think the 1995-96 EPS system had this problem.

Not sure this info helps your cause, but first thing to check is if the system is actually connected.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[shawn110975]

Did you recently charge you battery? was the battery dead?

 

[Valhalla]

Shawn - thanks for hanging with me on this and also for posting all of this info. I will start digging into this tonight when I get home. The battery has not been disconnected at all. But I'm thinking of trying that tonight to maybe reset the ECU and possibley the EPS one last time.

Keep those cards and letters coming! We'll figure this out eventually.

 

[Valhalla]

Just read through the entire thread where LarryB made the suggestion of the speed sensor. My speedometer mostly works and sometimes doesn't. When it doesn't, I just tap on the gauge clustter and it bounces on. Just seems like too much of a coincidence. Guess I'll order one up and install it and go from there. Thanks for the references.

 

[Valhalla]

Frustration is reaching lethal levels. I am about to christen the car with a couple of bullet holes!

I replaced the VSS with a known good one. No real effect other than the speedo stopped bouncing a bit. OK, some progress. So I had a little time on my hands this afternoon so I thought "what if I did this......"

I changed out my EPS unit and plugged in the one I purchased from Shawn, one last time. Low and behold I had power steering back! I fired up the car a few more times just to be sure. Yep, power steering. So I got to thinking why not try mine again, the one repaired by BrianK. So I swap them out and YES, the heavens part, and I still have power steering. I restart the car several times and it still works. I'm elated. I get on a clean shirt to take a spin. Start the car and the EPS warning light just glares at me. Oh crap, back to square one.

I've spent the past couple of hours swapping the units back and forth. I've played with every connector on the car. I've pulled the fuses. I've done everything I can think of except to grab my .38 and blow off a little steam while adding to the air conditioning effectiveness.

I can't help but think it's an input error like Swerve thought. As both EPS CPU's have worked, there has got to be a glitch, short, sensor issue that is marginal and comes and goes at it's own damn pleasure. Anyone have any more thoughts? Please?

 

[ncdogdoc]

While this is certainly frustrating, I would start over at the beginning. You know the two boxes do work "sometimes". I would unplug all three fittings and clean them until they shine, using Radio Shack contact cleaner, very fine sandpaper, or a pencil eraser. I would then slather those contacts with an enhancer, such as dielectric grease or one of the Audiophile liquids designed to maximize electron flow. I would do the same at the connector on the steering rack. It sounds too much like this is some sort of signal flow problem, and the system is defaulting to limp mode. Good luck.

 

[Valhalla]

I will but not today. I cleaned battery terminals. I cleaned fuses. I cleaned and bent connector prongs so they would have more contact. I worked on everything. I twisted wires and cables in case there was a break or short. I changed sequences of putting things back in. I am at a loss.

I'm not defeated but seriously pissed off. I will figure this out and get the car back to OEM. But I am afraid it may kill me.