engine won't start (with good battery)

Joined
30 December 2004
Messages
12
My '92 NSX started without problems in the morning but I could not get it to start in the afternoon when leaving work. I turned the key and cranked it for about 4 seconds, on 3 separate tries but the engine would not fire up. I then went in to call a tow truck. After about 15 min I returned and tried it once more -- this time the engine started.
I talked to a mechanic and he said either the fuel pump, or fuel pump relay may be bad.
I just checked the service manual and it suggested checking the fuel pump resistor.
Has anyone had the same problem and what is likely the root cause?
 
Do a search for main relay. The part number is 39400-SL0-003. It is located behind the passenger seat bolted to the firewall. Sometimes banging on the area behind the seat towards the middle of the car will allow your car to start. When you read the pertinent threads, you'll know why. :)
 
Hugh is correct. (In the NSX, the fuel pump relay runs off the main relay, and the main relay commonly fails, not the fuel pump relay.)

The main relay costs around $50 new. It's easy to replace, even for non-mechanic types, as long as you have a 10 mm socket. You just need to pry up the top bolster strip behind the seats from the bottom, and you'll see the main relay (it's even labeled with the words "main relay" in big letters). Remove the 10 mm bolt at the top, then the two connectors underneath (room is tight). A screwdriver applied to the small brown plastic tab may help get one of the connectors loose.
 
nsxtasy said:
Hugh is correct. (In the NSX, the fuel pump relay runs off the main relay, and the main relay commonly fails, not the fuel pump relay.)

The main relay costs around $50 new. It's easy to replace, even for non-mechanic types, as long as you have a 10 mm socket. You just need to pry up the top bolster strip behind the seats from the bottom, and you'll see the main relay (it's even labeled with the words "main relay" in big letters). Remove the 10 mm bolt at the top, then the two connectors underneath (room is tight). A screwdriver applied to the small brown plastic tab may help get one of the connectors loose.

Thank you for the tips. I don't know much about the car mechanically except changing the motor oil. But would a faulty main relay explain intermittent nature of the problem? What is the likely hood the fuel pump resistor is bad?
I drove the car home that day but have not driven it for about 5 days now. I'll try to start it again to see if problem persists.
 
slannynsx said:
Thank you for the tips. I don't know much about the car mechanically except changing the motor oil. But would a faulty main relay explain intermittent nature of the problem?
Yes
slannynsx said:
What is the likely hood the fuel pump resistor is bad?
Fuel pump resistors very seldom fail and if they do fail the car will still start and then die when you release the key from the start position.
 
This is the main relay for 91 through 94 model years. Part number 39400-SL0-003 (RZ-0101)
The part for 95+ is 39400-SL0-A01 (RZ-0152)

mainrelay.jpg
 
If you open the housing of the main relay and look at the soldering you might find some hair cracks (very difficult to see) in the soldering. Before you buy a new one you can try to resolder the components of the main relay. That will probable be sufficient. It is not difficult to do. Even I could do it :wink:
 
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Gerard van Santen said:
If you open the housing of the main relay and look at the soldering you might find some hair cracks (very difficult to see) in the soldering. Before you buy a new one you can try to resolder the components of the main relay. That will probable be sufficient. It is not difficult to do. Even I could do it :wink:
But a new one is inexpensive. That's why even those who re-solder other NSX components (like stereo system and air conditioning circuit boards) generally don't bother doing main relays. If you want to bother, though, hey, go for it...
 
CL65 Captain said:
No, that is your vagina.

I've been told I'm very much in touch with my feminine side so, perhaps you're right.
Then again when I guy refers to another guy's ass as a vagina, well................I'm sure people get the message. :)
 
nsxtasy said:
Hugh is correct. (In the NSX, the fuel pump relay runs off the main relay, and the main relay commonly fails, not the fuel pump relay.)

The main relay costs around $50 new. It's easy to replace, even for non-mechanic types, as long as you have a 10 mm socket. You just need to pry up the top bolster strip behind the seats from the bottom, and you'll see the main relay (it's even labeled with the words "main relay" in big letters). Remove the 10 mm bolt at the top, then the two connectors underneath (room is tight). A screwdriver applied to the small brown plastic tab may help get one of the connectors loose.


i was wondering where i can purchase the main relay for around $50.00? i called acura in sunnyvale california and they quoted me around $100 :(
 
I just bought one from Baranco Acura (770-968-5252) ( ask for Chris Boon) for $55.95 (and a $8.95 frieght charge). They give discounts to NSX Prime/Club members. Without the discount, I was quoted around $75 from 2 dealers.

Re: installation, it'll be much easier to remove the rear amp cover as well as the upper rear window panel and flat bulkhead panel behind the passenger seat in order to comfortably disconnect the wiring from the relay. To remove the amp cover, you need to remove the consloe box first ( four screws under the fake the floor of the box) in order to get at one of the 5 screws which secure the cover to the rear firewall. You don't need to dc the wiring harness from the amp. Removing the screws from the cover allows you to pull it away far enough to get at the main relay connectors. It's really very easy.
 
Hopes this help...

Bram


How to Fix Your Honda Main Relay
A similar, and often confused problem can be caused by a failed ignition coil igniter (or amplifier). Please click here for information on the igniter problem.
The Problem:
Problems starting the car, usually after a short run (when the interior is warm), though in bad cases the car may fail to start at any time. A classic time for the problem to occur is at the petrol station, or if you park for a minute to get something from a shop. If the car is parked for a long period, the interior usually has cooled enough for the joint to make contact again, and you won't notice a problem. As the cabin temperature is a major feature of this problem, it might appear worse on cold or rainy days when you have the heater running to clear the windows etc. Extremely cold temperatures can also cause the problem to be more apparent.
The engine will usually fire, run for a split second and then stall, as the remaining fuel under pressure is used up. Continual cranking will only make the situation worse, with the engine not firing at all in the end. When you turn the ignition key to position II (ignition on) you should see the PGM-FI indicator on the dash light up and extinguish. Exactly timed with this lamp, you should hear a click and the fuel pump turn on and off. If you do not hear a click and the fuel pump, then the main relay is likely to be at fault.
The main relay is usually located near the fuse box, mounted on a bracket. If you thump this part of the dash, it is likely that the car will spring into life again as the joint is disturbed, unless the problem is severe.
The Cause:
A dry joint in the PGM-FI main relay, causing an intermittent or no connection. This relay controls power to the ECU, and the fuel pump. With no power to the rest of the fuel-injection system, or fuel pump, you won't be going anywhere!

The above pictures show two main relays, the grey one from a UK Civic VTi (left), and the black one from a JDM CRX-Si (right).
Below is a diagram of the PGM-FI system fitted to Honda's first 12v fuel injected engines, like the MK1 CRX, MK3 Civic GT, Ballade EXi etc. PGM-FI has constantly evolved, but this diagram shows you basically what the main relay does. It's function is the same in all Honda cars - to supply power to the fuel pump, and fuel-injection components.



The Repair:
The repair is very simple, and is performed as follows:

Remove the relay

Remove the cover

Remove solder from ALL joints

Re-solder all joints

Clean the flux residue from the PCB

Spray on conformal coating

Replace the cover

Re-Install
Remove the relay:

The main relay is usually located in the fuse box area, and you basically can't miss it. The picture above shows the location in a Civic VTi saloon. In the MK2 CRX and MK4 Civic, it is in a more restricted location, click here to get a more detailed view. Remove the 10mm mounting bolt, and then depress the latch on the connector, and pull to remove.

Here is a shot of where the main relay is mounted in the MK3 CRX and MK4 Civic. I took this picture when i changed my dash.


Removing The Relay Cover
To remove the cover from the relay, you need to bend back the clips on the cover that hold it in place. This can be done with gentle pressure without any tools at all, though it is sometimes easier to unclip one side at a time with a fine screwdriver.
Here are the tools that you'll need:

The Tools Required

Soldering Iron (Antex 15w), and Stand

Desoldering Tool

60/40 Electronic Grade Solder

Flux remover
Additionally, (though not essential) it would be a good idea to spray a waterproof coating over the PCB, to protect against moisture.

As it is only the soldering at fault, you just have to re-solder the faulty joint's, but would strongly recommend that ALL of the joints on the PCB be re-soldered. I won't tell you how to solder here, as if you can't then get someone that knows to do it, otherwise you could end up damaging the PCB. One thing I will say that the most common problem many people encounter when soldering is using too much heat. This repair job can easily be performed with a 15 watt iron, and certainly don't use a soldering gun. Use a light, electronic duty soldering iron, of no more than 25 watts. Also use a good quality electronic grade solder.
Dry joints are caused by vibration and changes in temperature cracking the solder round a joint which has not flowed correctly. They have a characteristic look, and sometimes are very hard to spot, even to a trained eye. Remember, it is not the actual relay itself that is at fault, just the soldering.

Dry Joint
Here is what a dry joint looks like. You can see the crack in the solder between the pin and PCB track. Notice the others are OK. Most of the time it is the same joints that fail.

To fix the relay, you will need to:

Remove solder from ALL connections

Re-solder connections

Clean flux deposits from PCB

Inspect joints for imperfections

Spray on conformal coating, and wait for it to dry

Replace cover
 
Doc308 said:
I just bought one from Baranco Acura (770-968-5252) ( ask for Chris Boon) for $55.95 (and a $8.95 frieght charge). They give discounts to NSX Prime/Club members. Without the discount, I was quoted around $75 from 2 dealers.
According to the Delray Acura website, list price is $74.60 and they sell it for $59.68.

Doc308 said:
Re: installation, it'll be much easier to remove the rear amp cover as well as the upper rear window panel and flat bulkhead panel behind the passenger seat in order to comfortably disconnect the wiring from the relay.
Wow, that's REALLY the hard way, WAY more work than you need to do. All you need to do is remove the top bulkhead strip, and you're looking right at the main relay. It takes a bit of maneuvering to grab the connector on the right (when looking at it), but it's not bad, a lot easier than removing the entire bulkhead panel.
 
Yeah--it seems like a lot of work, but , in my case, the relay's connectors were obscured by the panels, making it impossble to get my fingers onto the connector clips and I didn't want to risk injuring any of those tiny wires by pulling the relay upward. Anyway, for those running into the same issue, removing the panels was about a ten minute job.
 
nsxtasy said:
But a new one is inexpensive. That's why even those who re-solder other NSX components (like stereo system and air conditioning circuit boards) generally don't bother doing main relays. If you want to bother, though, hey, go for it...
Bit of a generalisation there Ken - I have repaired both of the aforementioned & would not dream of replacing a main relay - $56 is obviously less significant to you than me - I don't know why only minimal more work to resolder the pcb joints vs replacement is less appealing.
It has been well documented throughout other Honda sites (this issue not unique to NSX) the failure mechanism is the joint failure - why spend $56 when a simple resolder will cure it permanently?
Even if you have to buy a soldering iron, it is still cheaper than replacement - & you still have a soldering iron as a net gain as opposed to a relay you will throw in the trash!
(Obviously not a liberal either - think of those thousands of needless relays cluttering our landfills!) <!--StartFragment -->
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FYI:

I had that problem about starting the car after a short stop and recently got the main relay re-soldered by a professional (an ASUS Computer tech). Thought i am safe from this problem and for the first 3 weeks, i was fine, car starts everytime.

Last week while driving by monster park on 101, my nsx went out and i had to pull to the side the freeway. While i tried to restart the car, it stalls each time after iginition. Very frustrating and had to call AAA for towing.

Knowing my car, I've requested for a flat bed. Some 30 min later, the truck came and the guy still wasn't able to pull my car up even with some 2x4s. Then I call AAA again, and the rep told me if your car is lowered and not factory, AAA wouldn't cover the tow! :eek: :eek: :eek:

wdf!!:mad: :mad:

i was shocked to hear such thing. What I to my cars is none of their business and I became a member for emergency situations like this! :mad:

No point arguing with them, so 20 min later, i called again and make another request. I told them to sent a regular truck this time. Another 40min later, a regular one came out. This guy has more experience, and he was able to lifted up the front first, then put the dolley for the rear. The tow driver aslo explained that only the newer tow tucks are able to do such job these days.

I was stranded around 4pm and by the time i finally got home, it was 8!

Oh one more thing, make sure u have 2 lifts for the rear, 'cuz when they drop the dolley, it's a sudden drop, and if you don't have the rear on lifts, it may scrape your exhaust and bottom.

I am ordering a new relay now.
 
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