Electronic shop doesn't want to solder chip out :(
- Thread starter goldNSX
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Tell him the lack of a warranty on the work is fine with you and you won't hold him responsible, and tell him you'll put that in writing. If he's not convinced, find another electronics shop.
Another option is to see if someone (either here or there) has an extra ECU that you could borrow while yours is shipped out for repair.
Another option is to see if someone (either here or there) has an extra ECU that you could borrow while yours is shipped out for repair.
Normally when removing a chip you cut the legs and get the body of the device out of the way. Then it’s an easy task to remove the remaining legs and solder. To remove the chip whole takes a very patient and skilled technician and the risk of damaging the circuit board is very real.
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I can't understand that it's that complicated, my fault I know. 
There are desoldering machines out there which cost very much, too much for me to do one chip. Isn't there a tool out there which can heat up 14 legs together and take the chip out? If I would cool down the chip with a special spray wouldn't that help?
If a this is only theory: How can the OEM chip be reused if his legs are cut away from?
There are desoldering machines out there which cost very much, too much for me to do one chip. Isn't there a tool out there which can heat up 14 legs together and take the chip out? If I would cool down the chip with a special spray wouldn't that help?If a this is only theory: How can the OEM chip be reused if his legs are cut away from?
Removal with the cutting method wrecks the chip and saves the circuit board which is the best method when doing repairs and replacing a bad IC. Removing the chip whole and for reuse is very difficult and time consuming. On the 28pin ECU EPROM IC it's just a nightmare to do. I recently removed a 20 pin IC for reuse and it was a pain and all I needed was the IC and did not need to worry about the circuit board.
Disclaimer: Brian is an expert electrical engineer and I am not.
My understanding is that the best way to deal with removing the chip is to then solder a socket onto the board and install the new chip into that socket. That way, if you need to change the chip in the future, it's easy to remove and install a new one.
However, if you want to go back to your original chip, the one you removed is useless; you would need a new chip that had never been soldered into a circuit board.
Brian, feel free to correct me if I have any of this wrong.
(The above is what was done to the ECU on my own NSX.)
My understanding is that the best way to deal with removing the chip is to then solder a socket onto the board and install the new chip into that socket. That way, if you need to change the chip in the future, it's easy to remove and install a new one.
However, if you want to go back to your original chip, the one you removed is useless; you would need a new chip that had never been soldered into a circuit board.
Brian, feel free to correct me if I have any of this wrong.
(The above is what was done to the ECU on my own NSX.)
Sounds like the socket I was talking about. I think it might be called a "zip socket"... Brian?ffffanman said:
Modern circuit boards are surface mount so with a little heat applied in the right areas the chip can be lifted right off the board. On older stuff the IC's are through whole mounting which does not lend it self to the hot air method of removal.
A ZIF socket is a acronym for Zero Insertion Force, A ZIF socket has some means to open so the IC can be just set in place and then the pins are clamped to make the connection. ZIF sockets are used when easy installation and removal is required or for a chip with just so many pins that the amount of force to install could damage the circuit board or the chip.
Soldering in a socket either a ZIF or a normal socket is good practice when replacing an IC because you may need to replace the IC in the future and most circuit boards will not stand up to multiple part removals.
A ZIF socket is a acronym for Zero Insertion Force, A ZIF socket has some means to open so the IC can be just set in place and then the pins are clamped to make the connection. ZIF sockets are used when easy installation and removal is required or for a chip with just so many pins that the amount of force to install could damage the circuit board or the chip.
Soldering in a socket either a ZIF or a normal socket is good practice when replacing an IC because you may need to replace the IC in the future and most circuit boards will not stand up to multiple part removals.
It would only be useless if the legs were cut off or was damaged with excessive heat (which shouldn't happen if done correctly). Just because it was originally soldered in does not make make it useless provided it is de-soldered appropriately.nsxtasy said:
I have repaired a number of ECU's myself, actually, i started my business years ago with repairing ECU's on component level.
The quality of the PCB's used for ECU's is very, very low. I have removed SMD parts from Bosch ECU's, where the PCB would just blister away within a few seconds, and i was using professional tools.
I have proper desoldering machines for desoldering the pin-through parts as used in the Honda ECU, but i have to admitt that when i did mine, i was VERY worried about damaging the PCB.
You can do like 15 at a time, without any trouble, then you get one, which is for some reason different, and pull all tracks off in one go...*major disaster*
Sometimes you just damage the bushing within the pcb, without seeing it, but the ECU will show erratic behaviour.... try to fix that one......
Cutting the legs of the IC is not a very professional way to do it, but, its in this case probably the most safe way of doing it, at least, if they know what they are doing. The tracks on the ECU are so fragile, that touching them with the soldering iron might damage them.
I can understand that your electronics workshop doesn't want to burn its fingers on doing that job. Its like the guys doing the LED taillights at a very high price....the risk is significant.
The quality of the PCB's used for ECU's is very, very low. I have removed SMD parts from Bosch ECU's, where the PCB would just blister away within a few seconds, and i was using professional tools.
I have proper desoldering machines for desoldering the pin-through parts as used in the Honda ECU, but i have to admitt that when i did mine, i was VERY worried about damaging the PCB.
You can do like 15 at a time, without any trouble, then you get one, which is for some reason different, and pull all tracks off in one go...*major disaster*
Sometimes you just damage the bushing within the pcb, without seeing it, but the ECU will show erratic behaviour.... try to fix that one......
Cutting the legs of the IC is not a very professional way to do it, but, its in this case probably the most safe way of doing it, at least, if they know what they are doing. The tracks on the ECU are so fragile, that touching them with the soldering iron might damage them.
I can understand that your electronics workshop doesn't want to burn its fingers on doing that job. Its like the guys doing the LED taillights at a very high price....the risk is significant.
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DutchBlackNsx said:
Hi Mich!
Would you like to desolder mine?
- If I cut the legs of the IC and then resolder other legs to it after deinstall could it be used then?
- If my OEM IC is damaged while desoldering, can it be exchanged for a reasonable price without buying a new ECU from Honda?
thanks,
Thomas
We offer this service with the ZIF socket which allows quick swap between SuperTune and factory program. Thomas -- if it would work, you could send your ECU's to us, and we could ship back to you in your batch of goods. The service is $80.00 including socket. A specialized device is used to automate the desoldering and removal of the factory 28 pin EPROM. We guarantee our work.
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/NA_tune/ecu/
Regards,
-- Chris
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/NA_tune/ecu/
Regards,
-- Chris
Find another shop to do it. Any television shop could remove that . It could even be removed with desoldering braid or a mechanical desoldering pump.
goldNSX said:Hi Mich!
Would you like to desolder mine?
- If I cut the legs of the IC and then resolder other legs to it after deinstall could it be used then?
- If my OEM IC is damaged while desoldering, can it be exchanged for a reasonable price without buying a new ECU from Honda?
thanks,
Thomas
Hi Thomas,
I would sure do it for you, but then, knowing the risk involved, i would not quarentee my work. Repairing damaged tracks is not to difficult, but this is automotive electronics, which is exposed to vibrations which can cause all sorts of trouble later one. For me just not worth the risk.
Take Chris his offer, same hassle with the damn documents for export-import
, and he guarentees the work done. Sending an ECU to Holland is gonna cost the same as to the US i suppose.If this would be a door-amplifier repair, i wouldn't mind a local shop to butcher around a bit with it, but these ecu's are not to be messed with, at least, not in my NSX.
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Thanks Chris, thanks Mich!
I phoned my friend (NSX owner and tuner) last evening and sent him the ECU to solder that damn part out of the board. It lays in his hands now. Will have it back by Friday.
I think I could have done better with the SOS exchange policy, the next time I go with this.
I phoned my friend (NSX owner and tuner) last evening and sent him the ECU to solder that damn part out of the board.
It lays in his hands now. Will have it back by Friday. I think I could have done better with the SOS exchange policy, the next time I go with this.
nsxtasy said:
wait-wait-wait :biggrin: :tongue:
No stock ECU anymore?
PS: good luck Thomas, keep us informed!
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gheba_nsx said:
Hi Giuseppe!
I'll have two different chips to try out. As soon as my ECU comes back next week I'll do a dyno if wheater is dry enough.
Time to beat that 308 Nm. :tongue: BTW there is a yellow 3.2 l at www.autoscout.ch for a reasonably price. Time to get one for spring, Giuseppe? :biggrin: :tongue:
Regards,
Thomas
Nope. Hasn't been stock for, oh, about ten years. I've got other mods too...gheba_nsx said:
nsxtasy said:
Say it is not so! I am not sure I can go on knowing this information. :biggrin:
Dave
nsxtasy said:
I knew about Bilstein on the OEM height setting and the "H" centercaps on the 7-spoke wheels. Probably also the Smartenna is there.
But the ECU is new to me! :tongue:
Which one?
goldNSX said:Hi Giuseppe!
I'll have two different chips to try out. As soon as my ECU comes back next week I'll do a dyno if wheater is dry enough.
BTW there is a yellow 3.2 l at www.autoscout.ch for a reasonably price. Time to get one for spring, Giuseppe? :biggrin: :tongue:
Regards,
Thomas
Hello Thomas, thanks for the heads-up... I'll give it a look but yellow is not really y color. Furthermore I guess I will have even less drive time than last year for the next summer so there is not a huge reason to buy something...
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gheba_nsx said:Hello Thomas, thanks for the heads-up... I'll give it a look but yellow is not really y color. Furthermore I guess I will have even less drive time than last year for the next summer so there is not a huge reason to buy something...
Common, buy it and join us! :tongue:
Yellow is not my favorite too, just one level above the Charcoal IMO.
:tongue:But you it's a 3.2 6 speed driven by a very old man, first hand.
