ebola

[KSXNSX]

I think you miss the point of my post, which is to criticize the fallacious comparison between Ebola and Influenza.

And it is NOT true that Ebola only propagates on contact. By the CDC's own (misleading) definition, close contact includes being within 3 feet of someone as Ebola IS capable of being transmitted by droplets in the air. Thus (although less likely), Ebola IS capable of being transmitted by a cough, a sneeze, or by other particles in the air while not fitting the technical biomedical definition of being "airborne."

That is a fatal flaw that these health agencies have made, probably purposely, in not clarifying these biomedical terms.

Either way, what you say, only bolsters my argument: that drawing a comparison between Ebola and Influenza is fallacious; and given an equal chance of infection in a healthy adult, Ebola is FAR more dangerous.

Overall, it will take fewer lives than the flu if it is contained, which has been the case historically before people could be moved all across the globe overnight. With modern air travel, Ebola will be much harder to contain as empirically demonstrated in so many cases.

Yes, as long as it is not "airborne" by the biomedical definition of the term, it will infect fewer people than influenza. But that in no way makes it less serious, deadly, or deserving of reasonable caution.

 

[docjohn]

there is a lot of media hype about this virus........there are other hemorrhagic fever viruses that have a long history and are well documented so maybe we should learn from nature.......as an example we have dengue which has an invasive hemorrhagic type. where is all the dengue hype......

 

[Zoom]

where is all the dengue hype......

To be honest i was in India recently, and the dengue made the news almost every day, even taking some local celebrities. News hype is quite different in those parts of the world.

 

[docjohn]

.................but not in America.......what does that tell you.

 

[willabeest]

Turbo2Go,

You are indeed correct. A pathogen that has a high fatality rate will ultimately "burn itself out" quickly. Keeping the host alive for a period of time is ideal for a pathogen to spread.
I'm afraid what we will find out is that ultimately the Ebola virus is far more contagious than people originally thought. See in Africa, the current treatment is basically observation, isolation and supportive care (fluids, nutrition, etc). In the US, the first infected patient was placed on dialysis, the ventilator and had central lines placed. These are not typically what patients in Africa receive. These treatment methodologies and equipment may actually help spread the pathogen in a manner that many had not suspected.
Personally, I would not be surprised if we see more cases pop up in the US. As others mentioned above, when the flu season rolls around, the hospitals & clinics will have a tough time differentiating the two in the acute setting.

remember Obamacare's death panels? placing ebola patients on dialysis and a ventilator does three things.
1. keeps the patient alive
2. costs a lot of money
3. exposes staff to increased risk of infection.
if insurance companies decide no dialysis or vents for ebola patients, there will be a lot of wondering if #3 is an excuse for #2 .

 

[passline]

My immune system is presently suppressed, therefore I dare not watch FOX. They scare the hell out of me lately.

 

[KSXNSX]

there is a lot of media hype about this virus........there are other hemorrhagic fever viruses that have a long history and are well documented so maybe we should learn from nature.......as an example we have dengue which has an invasive hemorrhagic type. where is all the dengue hype......

Well, how about we start with the mortality rate of Dengue, which is 1-5%, whereas Ebola's death rate is as high as 90%+. With adequate treatment, fewer than 1% of patients die of Dengue, whereas with Ebola, the death rate is still well over 50%.

And this is my whole point about comparing diseases to mitigate the severity of a CURRENT EPIDEMIC: Ebola is experiencing the largest outbreak in its history CURRENTLY. Just because the media is inundated with news about it does not make it less important than a disease that has been around for much longer and has already propagated around the world.

The only thing that is zero-sum here seems to be some attention spans. Just because you are tired of hearing about it doesn't mean it isn't worthy news or that it isn't serious.

Comparing Ebola to Influenza, Dengue, etc. are ALL fallacious comparisons.

If you are a real doctor, you should know that.

And I have no idea what your point is when you say "we should learn from nature."

 

[docjohn]

I play one on prime......I'm actually a professional hpde driver.....remind me of your credentials again.

 

[willabeest]

Well, how about we start with the mortality rate of Dengue, which is 1-5%, whereas Ebola's death rate is as high as 90%+. With adequate treatment, fewer than 1% of patients die of Dengue, whereas with Ebola, the death rate is still well over 50%.

And this is my whole point about comparing diseases to mitigate the severity of a CURRENT EPIDEMIC: Ebola is experiencing the largest outbreak in its history CURRENTLY. Just because the media is inundated with news about it does not make it less important than a disease that has been around for much longer and has already propagated around the world.

The only thing that is zero-sum here seems to be some attention spans. Just because you are tired of hearing about it doesn't mean it isn't worthy news or that it isn't serious.

Comparing Ebola to Influenza, Dengue, etc. are ALL fallacious comparisons.

If you are a real doctor, you should know that.

And I have no idea what your point is when you say "we should learn from nature."

i am a doc, 18 months from retirement, have no interest in infectious diseases except when they might affect me personally, and am a seeker of truth.
(sort of like Diogenes, which i think irritates the hell out of most people).
i can tell you that Ebola scares the hell out of me and my office buds. any nurse or doc that voluntarily enters the room of an Ebola patient deserves a congressional medal
at this point (or is a moron).

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/14/CIDRAP-Confirms-Ebola-Transmittable-by-Air
not sure who these guys are but you will get the idea.

probably the best solution (but it takes them awhile to gear up production).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2268273/

 

[jond]

^^^ I don't blame you.
Imagine if the outbreak hit the US and people were going to the doctors office daily needing help.
And imagine it hits right beside the flu season when not everyone with a fever has ebola. Chaos.
Doctors would be dying left and right and/or doctors will be forced to work in space suits 10 hours a day.
And the super tricky thing is not knowing if a flu patient has the flu or ebola, you would have to side on caution change space suits every 10 minutes between every patient so that you don't infect your flu patients with ebola.
Odds changing your suit correctly 100% right, every time, all day, every day?

So far we've had what, 2 Ebola cases in the US, and from those, 2 doctors caught it from the 2 patients(second one today).
I think in Europe at least 1 doctor caught it from a patient.

You can easily see a situation where a lot of doctors get killed and then stop caring for people(I wouldn't blame them) and then we have a big issue. IMO, the CDC is underplaying how bad it could be.

The cure, from what I've seen, is made from tobacco plants and right now isn't able to be scaled up to mass production?

And not that money really matters that much, but what's this going to do to the shopping season in December and thus the stock market(again, just random thought, not important). This plus the fed easing off the gas could be interesting.

 

[shawn110975]

its airborne but since it doesn't meet all req. to be classified as airborne they will not say its airborne on the news it will freak people out.

but should we be freaked out? you can die from this. al because 1 guy lied on his re-entry into the USA

 

[docjohn]

I'm not an expert in ebola specifically......my point about dengue was that that virus has two distinct illness, the hemorrhagic form has a higher mortality than the standard form..... Anyway my other comment about learning from nature is just that maybe we can't stop certain pathogens in the entire world......could this virus become a pandemic...could it be the next plague of the modern era......I don't know.

 

[BATMANs]

Why do all these epidemics start from Africa?

Take it easy on the Maple Liquor ..... eh.

- - - Updated - - -

I just hired an intern that was (on purpose) in Kenya on vacation and all he heard on the news was Ebola this and that.

He has a hoarse voice so I offered some Ricola and have been watching him like a hawk if there are any pre-zombie behaviors like a twitch....

 

[Moisted]

I just hired an intern that was (on purpose) in Kenya on vacation and all he heard on the news was Ebola this and that.

He has a hoarse voice so I offered some Ricola and have been watching him like a hawk if there are any pre-zombie behaviors like a twitch....

Americans' answer to every problem they can't deal with.

 

[Texas91Brent]

Americans' answer to every problem they can't deal with.

Guys its a little more serious than this...... Last person that has tested positive, flew across country and back.....thats alot of people to be in contact with.....Just saying show respect for the victims...and the illness..

 

[BATMANs]

Americans' answer to every problem they can't deal with.

Ur not glowing in the dark are you?

 

[Moisted]

Ur not glowing in the dark are you?

... nice, intelligent answer. Stick to nuking people dude, takes less brain power.


Seriously though, the way I see it this is a global issue that has potential to drastically affect human race in a global scale. There were two other outbreaks in recent history (ie. my lifetime) that had similar magnitude: Aids and SARS. I know there were others, but these 3 are the ones that have/had massive global widespread and took massive measures to combat. Two of these 3 started from Africa, one from China, which as pointed out previously present high concentration of people and animals, and relatively unprotected infrastructure.

There needs to be some sort of preventive measure put in place in global scale to prepare us in defending against these outbreaks (us meaning human race as a whole). We can't be sitting over here in north america behind our protective infrastructure, yet people in Africa are allowed to sleep with monkeys or whatever they do to catch these diseases. I don't think it's right for us to only worry about these things when they become a threat to us, ie. someone dies on this side of the pond. Before someone dies here, we treat the issue as someone else's problem and we think we are immune to it (or we can just ignore or nuke the other countries). There needs to be more measures put in place on the global level, especially in countries more exposed to viruses and bugs like these.

I know it's not practical for all countries to learn to live healthy over night, but I think it's up to us to help out. Because it's really our problem too, whether we like it or not...

 

[Hard Five]

... nice, intelligent answer. Stick to nuking people dude, takes less brain power.


Seriously though, the way I see it this is a global issue that has potential to drastically affect human race in a global scale. There were two other outbreaks in recent history (ie. my lifetime) that had similar magnitude: Aids and SARS. I know there were others, but these 3 are the ones that have/had massive global widespread and took massive measures to combat. Two of these 3 started from Africa, one from China, which as pointed out previously present high concentration of people and animals, and relatively unprotected infrastructure.

There needs to be some sort of preventive measure put in place in global scale to prepare us in defending against these outbreaks (us meaning human race as a whole). We can't be sitting over here in north america behind our protective infrastructure, yet people in Africa are allowed to sleep with monkeys or whatever they do to catch these diseases. I don't think it's right for us to only worry about these things when they become a threat to us, ie. someone dies on this side of the pond. Before someone dies here, we treat the issue as someone else's problem and we think we are immune to it (or we can just ignore or nuke the other countries). There needs to be more measures put in place on the global level, especially in countries more exposed to viruses and bugs like these.

I know it's not practical for all countries to learn to live healthy over night, but I think it's up to us to help out. Because it's really our problem too, whether we like it or not...

So in a nut shell we should tell people in other countries what they should and shouldn't do because we know better and we have a duty to do so. I'm sure that would go over real well...

 

[Juice]

What I find interesting is what the head of the CDC had to say about this Ebola outbreak. If you want to read between the lines, he compared it to AIDS. Why? The 2 diseases are very, very different. Their transmission, mortality rate, toll, access to demographics, etc. But this Ebola outbreak is behaving differently than what we know about the disease. I have been asked why we haven't worked towards a cure prior to now. The answer is, it has always been containable. You herd the people, quarantine them, and they die off, taking the disease with them. Sorry, but that's how it's done. But now, it's spreading so rapidly. Why? Containment hasn't worked. Why? Skilled and prepared practitioners are being infected. Why?

Is it like AIDS? Only if it is mutating and their current knowledge no longer applies.

 

[Moisted]

So in a nut shell we should tell people in other countries what they should and shouldn't do because we know better and we have a duty to do so. I'm sure that would go over real well...

Why not? We're quick to bomb anyone who says something we don't like, but when it comes to building healthy infrastructure we don't want to impose??

I would argue that health and environmental issues can be as dangerous as terrorism.

 

[jmarksnsx]

The Admin has botched protecting the country by allowing travel to continue from Africa. It is common sense and our leaders have none.

 

[shawn110975]

Standing up for America here we don't "bomb anyone who says something we don't like"

We are the only ones that actually send troops not stand on the sidelines and do nothing
Like our terrible president said recently
" they don't call Russia for help.... they don't pick up the phone and call china to help with a disaster..."
" they call us first for help "

Canada is our neighbor and friend we try to help everyone and if that includes a few tactical nukes to stop the bad guys then so be it.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree our leaders need to stop all flights going and coming from the places that have this virus. our leader needs to grow a pair

and stop thinking about hurting anyone feelings.

 

[BATMANs]

Good to know that you are starting to develop a brain.

Earlier you mentioned that ALL these epidemics start from Africa...

Now you are adding China.

You forgot to add Europeans (in exchange for tobacco) had some gifts of their own to the Americas:

1. Smallpox
2. Typhus
3. Cholera
4. Measles
5. TB

While estimates vary, approximately 20 million people are believed to have lived in the Americas shortly before Europeans arrived. Around 95% of them were killed by European diseases.

America really should annex Canaduh.......

... nice, intelligent answer. Stick to nuking people dude, takes less brain power.


Seriously though, the way I see it this is a global issue that has potential to drastically affect human race in a global scale. There were two other outbreaks in recent history (ie. my lifetime) that had similar magnitude: Aids and SARS. I know there were others, but these 3 are the ones that have/had massive global widespread and took massive measures to combat. Two of these 3 started from Africa, one from China, which as pointed out previously present high concentration of people and animals, and relatively unprotected infrastructure.

There needs to be some sort of preventive measure put in place in global scale to prepare us in defending against these outbreaks (us meaning human race as a whole). We can't be sitting over here in north america behind our protective infrastructure, yet people in Africa are allowed to sleep with monkeys or whatever they do to catch these diseases. I don't think it's right for us to only worry about these things when they become a threat to us, ie. someone dies on this side of the pond. Before someone dies here, we treat the issue as someone else's problem and we think we are immune to it (or we can just ignore or nuke the other countries). There needs to be more measures put in place on the global level, especially in countries more exposed to viruses and bugs like these.

I know it's not practical for all countries to learn to live healthy over night, but I think it's up to us to help out. Because it's really our problem too, whether we like it or not...

- - - Updated - - -

Why not? We're quick to bomb anyone who says something we don't like, but when it comes to building healthy infrastructure we don't want to impose??

I would argue that health and environmental issues can be as dangerous as terrorism.

And your not quick to say all these epidemics start from Africa?

Somewhere in Canaduh a village is missing it's idiot in it's slow NSX.

 

[91 X]

Hard to believe that a nurse who just got done taking care of patient zero hopped on a plane a few days later

Are you f###### kidding me???!!! My god, this could get ugly real quick...... It's already killing my 401k:frown:

 

[racer9x]

Not really, I'm sure that if your job included issuing lottery winners their prize you would not do much different on you're personal time, now if you know you own the winning ticket that's a different story (as if she was symptomatic and then took a flight, then I would say that's negligible)