Dry Carbon NSX Doors

[BD]

I did a price check on a set of autoclaved dry carbon NSX doors for Danny (Mr.1000.9 RWP) due to his eternal quest to shed weight on his beloved NSX. I just want to find out if any one else is interested.

It is not cheap but will save you some serious weight. Great for track cars, or bragging rights. Keep in mind that this is Autoclaved Dry Carbon, manufacture method similar to Enzo, F50, McLaren F1, etc.

The price quote is 525000 Yen plus shipping, including JDM tax. Four panels total.
Does not include shipping, which I suspect will be some where around $300. I will find out more detail next coupe of days.

There is also money wiring fee of $50 (send) and $50 (receiving), which will split between the buyers if the money is to be wired at the same time. You can also send the money your self (but you will need to pick up the entire wiring fee); I will provide the information.

While at it, my friend also ask me to post this product. Wet carbon inner door panel.

23000 yen for the set excluding shipping.

However, I haven't heard from him about LHD and RHD version. So again, I'll keep you guys posted when I get the information.

 

[raffi.awakim]

What does 525000 yen equate to in usd? I'm sure I can google it but I'm lazy.

 

[BD]

Lately it has been hovering around 97 - 100 yen per dollar.

So there will be some fluctuation when the money is sent.

 

[cwood1388]

525,000.00 JPY = 5,223.52 USD

Just googled it:smile:

 

[stuntman]

Does this carbon door have a similar internal crash structure as stock?

Most carbon or fiberglass door panels aren't the best idea if used in a car that doesn't have a cage.



0.02

 

[BD]

Does this carbon door have a similar internal crash structure as stock?

Most carbon or fiberglass door panels aren't the best idea if used in a car that doesn't have a cage.



0.02

I believe you retain all the internal structures/hardwares including side impact beams.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Does this carbon door have a similar internal crash structure as stock?

Most carbon or fiberglass door panels aren't the best idea if used in a car that doesn't have a cage.



0.02

its just the door panel, not the door itself... the inside door panel provides no safety features in a side collision. All the internal structure is inside the door itself. At least one of the pics is just the door panel :redface: nevermind its late im tired... and yea i would have a cage if i had the CF door... but I wouldn't worry about it if it was just the door panel

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

525,000.00 JPY = 5,223.52 USD
Just googled it:smile:

I don't get it. $6000+ in doors for weight savings then he sticks all the crap back into them like rails, windows, door locks, beams, wiring, and such. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

The stock aluminum doors weigh next to nothing after you completely gut out the shell. I have to be careful with mine when I am getting in and out to not stick too much weight on them so they don't bend.

Most carbon or fiberglass door panels aren't the best idea if used in a car that doesn't have a cage.

+ 1

I believe you retain all the internal structures/hardwares including side impact beams.

Vance, the stock door beams have a clamp collar which is tig welded to the ends of the door structure. Neither the earlier steel tube or later aluminum box frame design would "bolt-in" transferable to a composite shell.

 

[stuntman]

its just the door panel, not the door itself... the inside door panel provides no safety features in a side collision. All the internal structure is inside the door itself. At least one of the pics is just the door panel :redface: nevermind its late im tired... and yea i would have a cage if i had the CF door... but I wouldn't worry about it if it was just the door panel

Photo 1 in Vance's OP shows a replacement of the entire door. Photo 2 is of the interior door skin.

Vance: Is the price listed/original post for the entire door, interior door skins, or both?

 

[rasir_x]

Photo 1 also shows 258,000 yen??

 

[BD]

To Mr. Stunt, the those are two different products.

Rasir, the price on the list is single unit, not both side.

John, I couldn't tell you how every thing works. I know very little about this product. I'm actually learning this product as we go with all the questions.

Put down serious question after this post and I'll send a consolidated list of questions to Japan!!!

Hey guys, I'm not making money on this, please don't make it complicated. I'm doing this to save any one who want a set a few bucks on money wiring and possibly shipping since Danny wanted them.

 

[stuntman]

I did a price check on a set of autoclaved dry carbon NSX doors for Danny (Mr.1000.9 RWP) due to his eternal quest to shed weight on his beloved NSX. I just want to find out if any one else is interested.

The price quote is 525000 Yen plus shipping, including JDM tax. Four panels total. .

What Four Panels is in dry carbon?

What is your original post referring to?

The door itself or the interior/cosmetic door skin?

 

[BD]

The first picture on the left.

 

[omega2]

So what is the weight savings for these CF doors?

$5000 sounds like a lot, but consider most dry carbon door sets usually sell for almost $9-10k. I believe the ASM S2000 doors sell for around $9k.

 

[stuntman]

The first picture on the left.

Ok great. Thank you for the clarification that it is the actual structural door itself and not the interior trim panel.

I'll go back and restate that: Most carbon or fiberglass door panels aren't the best idea if used in a car that doesn't have a cage.

 

[BD]

It's no big deal. I never though there will be a market for this product, but since I did an inquiry for Danny, I thought perhaps some one else might be interested. It is dry carbon, the manufacturing process is pertty damn expensive.

 

[stuntman]

It's no big deal. I never though there will be a market for this product, but since I did an inquiry for Danny, I thought perhaps some one else might be interested. It is dry carbon, the manufacturing process is pertty damn expensive.

Yea, but i'm sure they sold a set or two to a team who races a street-stock NSX somewhere. Did Danny actually buy a set? I'd love to check them out on his car in person if he did.

Downforce and a few other suppliers do work with Dry Carbon and vacuum bagging, which gives you ~90-95% the benefit of autoclaved dry carbon (in terms of weight and strength) from what I hear, still leaps and bounds better than wet lay-up carbon.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Downforce and a few other suppliers do work with Dry Carbon and vacuum bagging,

I would have to defer to Peter, but the last I asked they do nothing with vacuum bagging/infusion.

which gives you ~90-95% the benefit of autoclaved dry carbon (in terms of weight and strength)

In a particular context that is most certainly true, for example doing an interior part. Most cases certainly lend themselves to good enough. The most significant point is the design. These appear to be taken directly off the factory shell which isn't ideal if weight savings is the underlying objective here.

For pro, that last couple of percent is critical for factory or structual applications where the ultimate weight to strength is a design requirement and/or they need failure limits to a given spec. In the case of a door or side panels- even with cages my understanding is that these parts are often optimized in tandum to further serve as a crush structure to serve as an added side-impact occupant protection system in the pro cars. In a pro context, very few parts only serve a single purpose.

For club racing the fiberglass would be more ideal / repairable all things considered.

On a street car it would be absurd. To me, it's like quit dorking around and just go buy the Ferrari.

from what I hear, still leaps and bounds better than wet lay-up carbon.

To an extent, I think what counts most is the knowledge, experience, and workmanship of the craftsman that comes to bare. I would agree that a quality hand lay-up can exceed a bagged/peel-ply manufactured part done poorly.

As a general rule, computer optimized aerospace grade composite manufacturing processes as-is employed in the upper echelon of pro motorsports; bears little resemblence to the amature garage work as seen on most of the JDM tuner stuff. Just walking into a pro facility strikes you as to how clean everything is- absent are the smells and puddles of resin everywhere and in are the cubicles. Just the software licenses alone are tens of thousands of dollars.

To reality and as to the subject, the fact is that you can do a lot of weight savings for $6000 in a race car, and it is my belief that unless you are competing in Rolex as is the case with a fellow racer I know- one would not be able to justify carbon bodywork all things considered. It's ridiculous.

 

[stuntman]

John - A lot of GT cars have carbon door skins that do not have any crash structure built into it. Many of which solely rely on the cage (or a separate crash box/structure made out of carbon/kevlar that is attached to the cage).

It does vary series to series, class to class to class. Like Vance said, maybe 1 or 2 people will actually end up buying it. Anyway, we are getting pretty off topic...

 

[Jeff@Carbon6]

I have a friend that helped develop the S103 closed cockpit LMP chassis. Their layup involves multi layers of pre-preg 12k carbon fiber in an alternating toe/weave and many sandwich layers of phonelic/Nomex honeycomb. Some of their impact test were astonishing. I don't remember the exact numbers but their composite panels were as much as 4 times resistant to internal penetration than equal weight metals. Some of the sandwich composite parts are 2" thick.

I would think creating internal pockets in the inner panel between the carbon could extremely improve impact resistance without adding weight. Like has been mentioned, the gap between good ideas and tested results can be great. Still would be a great project/product.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

John - A lot of GT cars have carbon door skins that do not have any crash structure built into it. Many of which solely rely on the cage (or a separate crash box/structure made out of carbon/kevlar that is attached to the cage).

I realize that point.

It does vary series to series, class to class to class.

My observation is that when you step up and spend north of a $100,000 per set for bodywork; you can pretty much get whatever you want fabricated and approved for competition. Just write the check.

Most of the semi-pro tube frame GT cars I have seen simply have a fiberglass door skin over a tube frame. Those can be a quarter of a million dollar cars; and I do not see liberal use of advanced composites as a method to reduce weight as they can achieve minimum scale weight without it and keep costs down which is ideal.

My recommendation for the "track guys" is to save your money- fiberglass is usually the better way to go for aero parts. FRP is a lot easier to fix than carbon in the event of an incident. For road cars it simply isn't economically viable to be re-engineering the aging platform.

Like Vance said, maybe 1 or 2 people will actually end up buying it. Anyway, we are getting pretty off topic...

I cannot debate the JDM novelty factor.

AFAIK the GT-One door set was originally priced at like 2.5 million yen = $25,000 grand per the GT-Rom web site - so with that said, I suppose 6K would be a steal.

My core point is that all things being equal, I think you could get to a similar weight by cutting the shell, deleteing the hardware, and using door pins. Hell, for that amount you could probably fabricate a CNC aluminum door hinge and get lexan windows all around too.

I have not seen this specific part yet, however, if it is anything like their headlights or the S2000 parts from Amuse I am of the opinion that it is not worth it. Their are other fabricators I know that will happily take that kind of money right now.

 

[Mac Attack]

On a street car it would be absurd. To me, it's like quit dorking around and just go buy the Ferrari.

With a 1000RWHP car, there will be an ~1% change in the power-to-weight ratio for your $6k spent. You can almost achieve the same affect (~35lbs total) by just removing the inner door panels, replacing them with a thin sheet of aluminum, and getting lightweight non-powered sideview mirrors.

It does seem kinda silly if you've got the money to justify CF body parts that you just don't spend it towards a nice Ferrari.

My $0.02.

Dave

 

[lowellhigh79]

Vance, thanks for looking into the doors. Will consider overall weight savings compared to replaced stock piece, safety issues and others brought out above. No dorking it here though and no desire to purchase a Ferrari either, simply taking my weight reduction into another possible direction. All inputs appreciated.

Regards,

Danny

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

With a 1000RWHP car, there will be an ~1% change in the power-to-weight ratio for your $6k spent. You can almost achieve the same affect (~35lbs total) by just removing the inner door panels, replacing them with a thin sheet of aluminum, and getting lightweight non-powered sideview mirrors.

Light weight doors are more ideal for race conversions in applications whereas the vehicle came from the factory with heavier steel doors.

If you are after light weight doors on an NSX, their is little sense in chasing ounces when with a little prep work you can lose far more than that and even get to keep your power mirrors- which come in very handy I might add. Like so:

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/paQPYslXllU&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

It does seem kinda silly if you've got the money to justify CF body parts that you just don't spend it towards a nice Ferrari.

Pretty much.

 

[BD]

John, DF does do vacuum bagging. I was there watching them working on the first couple stages of NSX-R seat replication.

They don't like to do it on normal stuff because it is time consuming, but on things that matters, they do.

Over all, it make sense to hear some one mention Dry Carbon doors for NSX racing cars. I wonder this company do stuff for JGTC.