Last time I was at trackmasters I noticed a couple of situations where a few cars almost hit each other and some were at the limit of their braking capabilities. Bad judgement and poor driving is what started it, but that is not my point ... a few times on the back straight I was hesitant to go full hard on my brakes going into the bus stop because I felt the car behind me was too close and did not have enough braking capability (there is some real junk out there). I actually saw a few cars locking up their brakes when I was nowhere near lockup on my NSX. So how do you guys handle this, is this an issue for the experienced racers? If you are driving a Porsche GT-2 cup on slicks and the thing stops much quicker than most of the other cars around you, do you ever have to worry about them and adjust for them? Then slowing your own time?
Driving question
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
first of all, I would think if those are real Junk, they have no business behind you... not to mention catching up inches behind your nsx at the end of straight away. these cars may locked up brakes behind you as they didn't expect you slow down so much.
FWIW, I unless was driving leisurely, I wouldn't have time to look at the mirrors when I'm at "full" braking from 100mph+ going into a corner.
Generally in HPDE, if there's a car that can hang the whole straight away behind you (assuming coming from nowhere.) they are faster than you, let them go. Then you may learn a thing or two trying to catch up with them.
no offense, faster lap time is about how much speed you carry into a corner, and maintain it.... Not how quickly you stopped.
I actually had a reverse type of problem to the one Dave described... there were a couple of situations where I was coming in to a corner that I might typically take at 60MPH and had to get way hard on the brakes when I realized the car in front of me was going to take it at a leisurely 30MPH. 
I hope that this will not occur now that I am out of the novice group.
To NSX Dreamer, I can see situations where cars may be faster on the straight but not have the same braking capabilities, either due to brakes or tires. Hopefully the more experienced drivers are able to compensate for these differences between cars better -- that may be the answer.
I hope that this will not occur now that I am out of the novice group.To NSX Dreamer, I can see situations where cars may be faster on the straight but not have the same braking capabilities, either due to brakes or tires. Hopefully the more experienced drivers are able to compensate for these differences between cars better -- that may be the answer.
I know what a fast lap time is about and where to look when I am hard on my brakes going into a corner. They are behind me because I am either in slow train, or I have passed them on the straights. Or I have lapped them once. There are all sorts of scenarios where a slower car and driver can be behind you. I am as curtious as can be on the track. But the point am I raising is just a concern. Its very disconcerting to slow hard and see smoke coming off the rear right tire of the car behind you with their wheel locked up. I have to take what they are doing into account just like I do on the street. You also have to consider the car in front may have way superior braking power. There are times when braking power is just way different and I was just wondering how others deal with it, that's all.
There seems to be a difference of opinion here and here is mine, drivng on the track and the street are two independent animals. On the street you have to drive defensively to save you life and others around you as most people are not paying attention and drivers education consists of teaching you how to parallel park not how to control your car! Second if you have never spun your car to see how it reacts when it gets lose then you do not know how it handles and driver's ed it not about how to drive.
The race track is a differnt animal there is no road crown and the same car reacts to this surface dependent on it setup. Next drivers on the track have to focus on their cars capability and find away around the other cars, I have been racing for over 25 years from karts to formula cars and you are always on the track with cars faster than you and cars slower than you that is part of life in this environment. How I deal with it is to drive my own car and focus on that if some idiot is demon braking behind me because he thinks its fast then he will take me out I cannot stop that but my buddies at the track will (other drivers and the stewards). Now you can flame this if you want but it still boils down to that is racing and you cannot control idiots you can only avoid them by focusing on your car. "This is a quote from a seminar given in my state by the late great Carrol Smith!
The race track is a differnt animal there is no road crown and the same car reacts to this surface dependent on it setup. Next drivers on the track have to focus on their cars capability and find away around the other cars, I have been racing for over 25 years from karts to formula cars and you are always on the track with cars faster than you and cars slower than you that is part of life in this environment. How I deal with it is to drive my own car and focus on that if some idiot is demon braking behind me because he thinks its fast then he will take me out I cannot stop that but my buddies at the track will (other drivers and the stewards). Now you can flame this if you want but it still boils down to that is racing and you cannot control idiots you can only avoid them by focusing on your car. "This is a quote from a seminar given in my state by the late great Carrol Smith!
I all ways try get the strightaway fast cars to pass me in the stright but as noted they lock there brakes at the corner and then hold me me up for the next 3 turns. Anyone who has been at Road America knows this about Canada corner. Just the nature of a HPDE event.
I'm afraid you can't control the cars around you.
i.e.) I've had several near accidents where the drivers directly ahead or behind me spun out of control. Hard braking from 120mph will often lock up my brakes, so I drive 7/10th with a half-car length spacing and will usually give the faster cars the point-bye.
But it's usually the younger/newer drivers in the lower groups that are dangerous because they have no car control and panic.
i.e.) I've had several near accidents where the drivers directly ahead or behind me spun out of control. Hard braking from 120mph will often lock up my brakes, so I drive 7/10th with a half-car length spacing and will usually give the faster cars the point-bye.
But it's usually the younger/newer drivers in the lower groups that are dangerous because they have no car control and panic.
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Welcome to open track in hpde!:wink: If you have shown the trackmasters instructers that you are ok to solo and have checked out,then you have shown that you have the car control and temperment to play with your peers.That said,you need to now build up your resume of experience,because alot of wacky shit can happen in a hurry on every lap you are in traffic.In general you need to drive your car based on what those in front/next to you are doing,those behind you do the same:smile:If you find someone is clearly out of thier league disregarding rules ect then report them.other than that if you find someone is ghosting you,and has a similar lap time but gives you the willys,let him pass or pit in to hot pits for a gap.After so many years you will iether get bored of driving around alone,or you will start to play with guys and gals who you meet wkend after wkend and challenge each other.After that you might even taste some racing:biggrin:
Re: The 4th element
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Well said Doc.
The HPDE organizers preach and want to keep the risk down to 3 elements: you, your equipment and the track. Unfortunately, unless you're all by yourself, the 4th element of risk; other cars, will be there too. There are wankers in racing who cost innocent racers money and heartbreak just like there is in HPDE.
The good news is that as you get better, 1) you'll be running with better drivers and 2) it'll be easier to spot and avoid the wankers.
That said..........No guarantees. be careful out there.
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Well said Doc.
The HPDE organizers preach and want to keep the risk down to 3 elements: you, your equipment and the track. Unfortunately, unless you're all by yourself, the 4th element of risk; other cars, will be there too. There are wankers in racing who cost innocent racers money and heartbreak just like there is in HPDE.
The good news is that as you get better, 1) you'll be running with better drivers and 2) it'll be easier to spot and avoid the wankers.
That said..........No guarantees. be careful out there.
It always pays to be aware of the other drivers in your group. You should be able to tell in the first few laps if there are inexperienced or problem drivers by their lines, apex hits, etc. It also helps to meet and talk to them before the sessions start. Stay away from arrogance and learn from better drivers. At speed and adhesion limits stuff happens. If you do it long enough - it will probably happen to you too. We all have our tales to tell. 
