Driving difference FR vs MR?

[fireball111]

So when i get my nsx it will be my first mid-engine car. And i know not to run out and act like a hero in it. But i was told even if a drive; with in my limits that the car still might get away from me. And they told me i should buy an MR2 so i can fet use to driving a Mid-engine rear drive.

I don't really believe this, but i do know it will be some difference between the NSX and my current sports car a 94 camaro Z/28.

What are your thoughts?

 

[MvM]

Like you, the NSX was my first mid-engined car. On top of that, if was also my first high-performance sports car and more than twice as powerful than any car I had ever owned before and also my first rear-wheel drive car.

So, as you can imagine, at first, I was driving like driving on eggs with the NSX. I was constantly very much aware off all that weight in the back.
However, the NSX let's you feel very well what it is doing under you. And yes, especially with worn (rear) tires or when it is wet, it is not difficult to let the tail brake loose. But at the same time, it is not likely to behave like that when you are driving at normal road speeds.
I have no experience with the MR2, but a friend of mine who has both, told me the MR2 is much less forgiving than the NSX and much easier to brake tail.
Also, at least with my own NSX, I have choosen a rather agressive wheel alignment optimized more for performance than for maximum tirelife. In the NSX, I feel very well what the tires are doing. Driving over a slippery spot, I can literally feel in an instant the tire is loosing grip.

I think, the trick is, start taking it easy and learn how to listen to your car. Over time, you will grown accustomed to it and then it should not pose a problem. I haven't driven any other mid-engined cars so I cannot compare, but I think the NSX is not extremely difficult in that respect.

 

[DaveC20853]

A local autocross is a good way to explore your cars limits, without undue risk of hitting something.

 

[Jonmarsh]

As MvM indicated, vehicle setup is an important factor. So, it's a good idea to be sure your tires are in good shape, and if the car has been lowered, get the front and rear alignment checked, though without special parts such as Science of Speed offers, it's hard to get camber really right with significant lowering.

It's funny you should mention coming from a '94 Z28, as I have a 95 Z28 (going to my daughter soon, she's had a 99 Camaro for sometime, but the interior is way cheaper than my older Z for some reason).

With the Z it's possible to throttle steer the rear end around slower corners, and because of all that weight in the front, the front end tends to stay planted in spited of those antics. The NSX's mass centralization means that overall turn-in is quicker and more responsive. But in slippery conditions, especially with mediocre tires, that mass centralization means it's easier to put into a snap spin (never in my own case, fortunately). It's not as bad as a 911 with all that weight hanging out behind the rear axle, but it's something to be aware of. So, the NSX deserves a bit lighter touch- it won't understeer the way Z28 will if you just crank hard on the steering wheel. It will turn quickly (magazines having recorded up to 1.1G transient turn-in lateral acceleration in STOCK early NSX). And by Newton's first law, any object in motion tends to stay in motion unless an external force is applied.

The thing is, the NSX has much higher road holding capabilities than a comparison of lateral G's between it and the Z28 might indicate. So some time and respect to learn it's behavior will be rewarded. Rather than getting an MR2 to play with, I'd recommend signing up for a good track course in a formula trainer - these are rear midengine cars, typically with Mitsubishi or other small 4's, usually not making more than 180 HP. That doesn't sound like the hot ticket at first thought, but then these trainers only weigh about 1,000 lb. Russel Racing at Infineon Raceway does this north of the SF Bay area, and there are many similar classes available at tracks around the country. A two day course would be a nice way to spend a weekend.

 

[goldNSX]

I've seen a lot of mainly younger people being advised and shown what can happen if they don't drive the NSX with a certain respect. Most of them knew it better and some of them crashed their car. :tongue:
My 'over'spirited drives stopped after a very lucky incident.

A sports car driving school may fit your needs. I hope to do one this year too.

 

[hofffam]

A Camaro is not a sports car. It is a sporty car, but it is far too heavy to be a sports car. Neither is a Mustang or a Trans Am.

With that snobbiness behind me....my daily driver before my NSX was a Jaguar S-type 4L. Good power and RWD. Good balance if not exactly nimble.

I too was very careful with the NSX after I bought it. I initially was stunned by its balance and grip. It was incredible composed on bumpy turns.

I almost lost it once - when I took a hard right turn, instead of staying on the throttle, lifted the pedal. The rear immediately slid and I was forced to countersteer twice to correct. The lesson learned was that the NSX can oversteer rather quickly if you do something stupid like I did. The NSX rewards a smooth driver. Do not suddenly lift the throttle or brake in a turn. The weight behind you will hurt you when the rear loses grip.

Now that I understand the NSX better - it continues to make me smile and I know how to stay out of trouble.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

And i know not to run out and act like a hero in it.

I did and I almost put it into a wall the first day I got it. :redface:

It's the snap spin. In a traditional FR, you can easily pull out of a tail slide by counter steering. It corrects so slowly you can finish your cappuccino by the time your tail pulls back around. In the NSX, it snaps back so quickly you really have to be on your game.

 

[RON98]

You need fast hands.

MR cars when the back brakes loose, you'll need to catch it as soon as it starts.

with FR cars you have more time to counter steer.

 

[MashimaroNSX]

The feel of the NSX is quite different then a traditional FR car. My firsthand experience with the feeling of the NSX is that at the beginning it feels heavy and then once it starts moving the car seems to lighten up and becomes a precision tool and therefore every millimeter movement of the steering wheel counts. The MR layout of the car means that there will be massive grip in the rear, however at its limits the grip can let go without notice (kind of like a on and off switch) so countersteering must be quick (don't forget to stay on the throttle to regain the grip) whereas a FR car gives you a indication of a decline in grip (similar to a dimmer) therefore much easier to countersteer. In MR cars you will have to use more delicate throttle control and braking as well as a different steering technique to counter the weight shift but in the end if you are able to master the limits, the car will definitely reward you with a great experience.

 

[Ski_Banker]

A local autocross is a good way to explore your cars limits, without undue risk of hitting something.

Absolutely. Better yet, a real road course with a good instructor.

This is the best analogy I know of:
A novice snow skier "rides" downhill on his skis. The skis are in control and he's just doing his best to keep 'em pointed in the right direction.

An advanced skier "owns" his skis. They become part of his body, like any other extremity. He can feel the most subtle movements and react with perfect ease.


>>> The same thing starts to happen even with just 1 good day on a track with the NSX. BY FAR it is the best way to really understand how your car handles, and you'll learn quickly enough to take that knowledge to regular roads for fun drives.

 

[nh_nsx]

I think the instructor led road course is a GREAT idea!! Do you know if standard auto insurance would cover you while you were participating in such an event? I'd imagine an insurance company might give you some trouble when they see "Accident Location: Laguna Seca or New Hampshire International Speedway"
I'd LOVE to do something like this but I'd be VERY reluctant to risk the car that I've waited so many years to own...

Any thoughts or suggestions??

Thanks!
Randy

 

[jond]

What are your thoughts?

I'm damn careful with it, and I've spent a year slowly pushing it closer to the limits to learn it. With my mustang, it's easy to kick the back around and it never gets out of control. Let off the gas and the tail comes back in line.

With the NSX, it is soooooooooooo much fun. It can be tricky though.
Examples, today I was getting onto an on ramp from a stop(weird intersection). I kicked the back around maybe 10 degrees. As soon as I felt the rear grip again I gave it a little more gas and it got to maybe 15 degrees. It was the best feeling in the world. I got to work with a huge smile on my face.
Rewind 9 months. I was making a u-turn at an intersection. I was late, I was in a rush, my head wasn't there, and I decided to turn off traction/stability control since at that time I felt it kicked in too early. I take off, give it some gas and quicker than I could comprehend(under a second) it was facing 180 degrees the wrong way. It spung THAT quick. Faster than you could react. And thats with summer tires on a dry summer day.

In summary, as long as you're smart and respect it, you're fine.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think the instructor led road course is a GREAT idea!! Do you know if standard auto insurance would cover you while you were participating in such an event? I'd imagine an insurance company might give you some trouble when they see "Accident Location: Laguna Seca or New Hampshire International Speedway"
I'd LOVE to do something like this but I'd be VERY reluctant to risk the car that I've waited so many years to own...

Any thoughts or suggestions??

This area is rapidly changing. For many years, insurance policies excluded "competition and timed events", which means races weren't covered, but drivers schools held on racetracks were covered. Some insurance companies have been re-writing policies to exclude any event held on a racetrack. At least one insurance company was offering special coverage for such events but I believe they have stopped offering it.

As to whether an incident would be covered, there's no ironclad rule that it will or it won't. Some companies are better than others, and even within the same company, you might have a higher chance of being covered if you are a long-time customer with a local agent who goes to bat for you.

Your own attitude towards track events can reduce the chances of an incident occurring. The vast majority of incidents involve only one car; it's unusual for two cars to touch each other in a drivers school. You can reduce the chances of an incident occurring by driving within your limits at all times, and by starting out slow and building up your speed in gradual increments, and NOT by thinking you're Andretti and going to be lots faster than everyone else your first time out. I also have found that lots more incidents happen when the track is wet (due to rain), and it's up to you whether or not to drive on the track in such conditions.

Bottom line, though, is this - if you participate in such events, it's possible (not at all likely, but possible) that an incident may occur and damage your car, and it's possible that that damage may not be covered by your insurance company. If you are not comfortable accepting this risk, then you probably should not be driving in such events.