Do I need a Laser Jammer?

[ONEADAM12]

Just to clear the air a little.. my previous posts in no way intended to "slam" or "flame" any aother member on this board.... yes i am an officer.... yes i do own an X.... and i am sure anyone will agree, most (if not all) drivers exceed the speed limit at one time or another.... given that, MOST (if not all) officers will give you 10 over before issuing a citation.... personally, i dont even stop a vehicle unless it is 15mph over the posted speed limit.(with the exception of residential and school zones...then it's 10) i agree on one point, speeding in an of itself MAY not be unsafe within 10mph of the posted speed.... as a matter of fact, in california radar/laser enforcement requires a speed survey done on the roadway before radar/laser enforcement can be done... furthermore, officers have to adheare to the 85th percentile (aka critical speed) before they can issue the citation.... critical speed is quite often times aorund 5mph over the posted speed.... critical speed means 85% of the drivers driving that roadway drive it at that (critical) speed....having said, my peeve is not speeders.... it's those who sit back and know they speed and try to blame an officer who is doing his job or acuse him of wrong doing just to give THEM a speeding ticket because of the car they drive !!!!!!!!!!! again, i beg you to find me an officer who would risk his carrer for a speeding ticket.... sorry boys, i aint gonna happen !!!!!!!!!! as for safety.... i challenge you to go to any departmant and ask to see thier crime statistics... i am willing to bet in ALOMST every occassion, thier deaths and injuries as a result of traffic collisions are going to be far more significant than thier death and injuries due to murder's, rape's, batteries, etc.... i am sure there are some cities ( LA, NYC, CHI...etc..) that this may not be the case, but in general the chances of you or a family member being injured or killed in a traffic collision is much more likely !!!!!! SPEED TRAPS... as they have been called here.... are NOT traps !!!!! an area for traffic enforcement is targeted by collision data.... if a specific area of roadway has a high number of collisions and those collisions are caused by speed...then that area is targeted by the officers in an effort to reduce the number of speeding violators that are causing the collisions in that area.... same is true for red lights, stop sign, right of way...etc.... it has been statistically proven that every 10 citations written for a PCF (primary collision factor) in an area will reduce the number of collisions by 1..... also, every citation written on the side of the road essentially effects dozens of drivers driving by and witnessing the citation... therefore ruducing violations and as a result reducing collisions.... so when you think an officer is JUST writting tickets to generate revenue, you are sadly mistaken.... what they are in FACT doing is making the roadway safer for you and your family !!!!! dont fool yourselves, there isn't this big conspiracy among cops to give tickets to those who drive nice flashy sports cars.... it just so happens, those who own these cars actually speed and get caught SOMETIMES !!! how many times have you exceeded the speed limit and NOT been caught ???? AGAIN, PLEASE DRIVE SAFE AND RESPONSIBLE... I'D HATE TO OPEN THIS FORUM IN THE FUTURE AND READ ABOUT A FELLOW NSX'ER KILLED OR INJURED IN A CRASH !!!!!!!

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

Been holding this inside for a while

I beg to differ on "all" speed traps to be placed by statistical data. There's one stretch of road that I received a ticket for doing a speed that I KNOW I was not doing. A matter of fact it was along the beach where there was not anyone let alone buildings/housing. I was doing about 5 over (don't know for I was driving by sound and not paying attentino to the speedo) and was in 4th gear NOT cruising 60 mph in a 45. I DON"T cruise my car above 3K RPMs unless I'm out of gears. I do have short gears also. This officer only asked me loaded questions and as I always do, I respect them with proper responses. Being honest, I told him I didn't know how fast I was going for I was just cruising relaxing, talking to my friend in the passenger seat. He didn't want to hear anything and gave me a ticket. I didn't debate it with him for he was soooo focused on me speeding like I was going over 100mph. My feelings is that he say me in a red NSX and wanted to give me a ticket. He even told me that I was driving over the centerline when I wasn't (BTW it was pitch black and he was coming the opposite direction). I took the ticket and then took off...well 5 minutes later a car came up quickly and tailed me for about a minute before some blue lights came on again. It turned out that he pulled me over again and told me that he forgot to give me my insurance back and handed it to me. I'm military and have a few friends that do law enforcement from Texas DPS, to Houston and SAPD so I sometimes hear the stories on what officers have to go through, BUT that is not an excuse to start off with an attitude and rule over someone behind your badge. Needless to say, the next weekend, my roomate was out with me but driving a Lotus was pulled over for "racing" me!!! You have to be kidding!!! We were just leaving a resturant and he followed behind me where this officer claimed that he was doing 70 (via speed estimating) when the police officer was viewing us from behind second in the lien of traffic at that intercection that we saw as we made a turn going in the same direction that he was going. The lotus is quick but not that fast to do 70MPH in the short distance of that road. Needless to say the lotus was having engine problems and actually stop working as soon as this officer issued a ticket and my roommate made the turn. That officer just went around him and kept going. You know, the motto "protect and serve" just doesn't sit well with me when I'm standing/driving/in the presence of a police officer--I just wish that would change. Like I said earlier, ya'll have a tough job, and me being military understand for we do too with the world events and defending freedom, but I feel that personal attitudes/stereotypes/moods should be left out of the job.

Okay.... off my soapbox... I feel better now!!!

Well, I've decided to go to court on this one for I'd like to give my side of this to the judge.

V/R,

 

[nkb]

ONEADAM12,
What you are saying sounds great, but a good amount of it is theory, which does not necessarily translate into the real world. If all police officers actually followed all the steps that you mention, and speeding laws were based on the criteria you are mentioning, I think there would be a lot less complaints.

Now, you may actually follow all these principles, and you are to be commended, but the reality I see every day is a little different.

In the areas that I have lived in for extended periods (upstate NY and the Dallas area), police officers generally set up speed traps in spots where they know a lot of speeding occurs, where they can hide well, and where they can efficiently pull over as many offenders as possible. I'm not saying they all do it, I'm not saying the majority do, but I believe a significant amount of cops do this.

As far as money generated from speeding tickets, I agree that the police department does not receive this directly. But, especially in smaller towns, this money goes to the government, of which the police is a part of, and therefore indirectly benefits. In many cases, traffic ticket revenues are one of the primary sources of income for towns. The less revenue from tickets, the smaller the budget, the less money each department (including the police) will get for the year.

Also, trained or not, too many officers end up depending on the radar/laser gun for getting a speed, as opposed to visually estimating, then confirming. I can speak from personal experience, because just recently I received a speeding ticket for 81 in a 45, which the officer claimed was what the radar gun showed. I was driving my wife's 4Runner, and had been at a complete stop at a red light, and supposedly got that fast in a span of less than 1/2 mile, without accelerating quickly. I guarantee you I was not doing a mph over 55. Yet, the officer wrote me a ticket, because the radar gun showed 81.

Your argument that no officer would ever risk their career over a speeding ticket is weak. The simple rebuttal is, they don't risk their career when they write tickets. If they go around arresting people for murders, with no evidence, and they turn out innocent all the time, you may have an argument. But, evidence is not needed for speeding, so when they screw up, it doesn't come back to haunt them.

Even if an officer repeatedly wrote out unwarranted tickets (intentionally or not), who questions the officer? Whenever it comes down to your word against an officer, you will always lose. If the officer estimated you at a higher speed, but the radar gun contradicted him, how could you ever prove that? You are at the mercy of the officer. You don't think that some cops take advantage of that (please note, I said 'some')?
Also, lumping speeding in with people who blow through red lights is not right. Reckless speeding (for example, street racing, doing 70 in a school zone, excessive speeding in residential neighborhoods), yes, but not speeding in general. How can you compare someone doing 90 on an open highway (in a capable car) to a moron who flies through a red light at an intersection, with cars coming the other way?

Last, but not least, based on numerous studies, speeding is not the inherent reason for automobile deaths. Compare the US data to that of Germany, for example, where highway speeds are much higher, yet fatalities are significantly lower (per capita, of course). Driver education is at fault, IMO. Getting a driver's license in the US is ridiculously easy. If you have a car, and are not significantly mentally retarded, they give you the right to drive. In Germany, you have to take extensive driving lessons, and they make you pass very tough written and practical tests before they allow you out on the streets.

You said this is a land of LAWS, and the laws are there for a reason. I submit that some laws don't make sense, and have no valid reason.

I don't mean to start a war with police officers, as I respect what they do for the low salaries that they pull in. But, I have a serious problem with revenue generating traffic tickets.

 

[RPM217]

clarification time

Bacon, I wasn't directing my previous post at/to you, it was really directed at ONEADAM12, but hopefully you'll both realize it wasn't meant to be a personal attack, I'm quite sure that any police officer who owns an NSX is more intelligent than the "average" officer, and would probably cut a fellow owner some slack, as long as he was respectful, and not putting people at risk. As I previously stated, I am always respectful when stopped by a law enforcement person,whether I was doing anything wrong, or not. One of my appreciative clients gave me a "shield" and some supporting documents to show with it. My client (also an Officer) warned me that I should be careful how I show the shield, as it could piss off someone if flashed with the feeling that it would somehow grant me immunity. I am always respectful when stopped, and as I have stated, as of the past many years, I haven't been stopped for speeding. I feel strongly that safety is the most important thing, and I don't want to put myself or others at risk. I drive as fast as conditions permit, within reason, and only when there is no risk to others on the road. Yes, it makes sense to put enforcement measures in place where there are multiple incidents, but many times you see enforcement in place where there is most likely to be people speeding (open stretches of highway, at the bottom of a hill, or around a corner). I have many times spoken with friends of mine in law enforcement, and to a person, they do not enjoy the time that they are forced to do "traffic", and yet they at times must do that, as that is the job they are assigned to. I'm glad that both of you "officers" are owners, as you know it's a great experience. Bacon, I'm coming back down to your neighborhood, my daughter is at Emory. I drove down to Atlanta the end of August, over 900 miles from our home, each way. I saw many accidents, some quite serious, overturned SUV's, multiple car pileups, etc. and I'm quite certain that most were the result of unsafe speeding. I was always thankful that there were emergency vehicles, police, fire, ambulance, etc. right there, helping the injured, and making sure that traffic got around the site safely. Most of you do a great job, do not abuse your position, but like in any profession, a few "bad apples" do give a lot of "good apples" worms. Keep up the good work, and Bacon, you have given all of us some good advice in the past, ONEADAM12, I hope that you are always on the right side of the situation, and are appreciated for your contributions as well. To all of our fellow Prime members, I hope that we don't get caught breaking the law, I know that I try to give myself the "advantage" by using the technology available, but if I get stopped, those are the breaks. I've rambled on long enough!!

 

[bacon]

I appreciate it when people say they commend us for doing a job for low pay........and maybe im naive but im happy with my pay i have a nice house an nsx and a 350z and my wife drives a gs300 and i just got back from Hawaii......i am by no means getting rich but i have no complaints....granted if i have to take a bullet for someone i wish someone would give me a raise and yes the majority of officers in this country are underpaid just like teachers but if you get into a good department and stick with it you can have all the toys you wealthy guys have we just have to buy them used while you guys can get them new....i guess i should mention i don't have kids yet and the wife has a good job.......plus the cost of living down here is a lot less than where i lived in california....i would still be driving my 1978 olds 98 regency if i lived there

 

[ONEADAM12]

Ok... one last post and i'm gonna let it rest.... again, my peeve is the blanket accusation cops set up "SPEED TRAPS" and issue undesrved tickets to dirvers of exotic cars just because it's an exotic car..... i will admit, yes there are BAD COPS!!!! just like bad teachers, bad construction workers, bad doctors, bad priests ...etc... you see my point.....however they are very few.... it just gets old hearing the same BS about why someone did't deserve a ticket and how the cop is dishonest..... if a cop in your area is writing bad tickets and enough people contest those tickets, the judge will see a pattern (if there is one) and figure it out.... judges aint stupid and they don't just automatically believe the cop..... if you present a legitimate defense with articuable facts, you have a least a chance of winning..... i have lost cases in which i KNOW i was right, but the person was able to present a reasonable explanation and/or defense and the judge just gave them the benifit of the dought... i have also lost when someone has all out blatently lied and gotten away with it... it does happen....that's what court is for..... it aint perfect, but it is OUR justice system.... lastly i ask you read the below exerpts from other postings.... i couldnt have said it better.... REMEMBER, DRIVE SAFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh BTW.... i'm sure that just like california, speeding is a GENERAL INTENT crime...... just doing it makes you guilty... you dont have to know your doing it or intentionally do it.....

nkb wrote:
Last, but not least, based on numerous studies, speeding is not the inherent reason for automobile deaths. Compare the US data to that of Germany, for example, where highway speeds are much higher, yet fatalities are significantly lower (per capita, of course). Driver education is at fault, IMO. Getting a driver's license in the US is ridiculously easy. If you have a car, and are not significantly mentally retarded, they give you the right to drive. In Germany, you have to take extensive driving lessons, and they make you pass very tough written and practical tests before they allow you out on the streets

rpm217 wrote:
I drove down to Atlanta the end of August, over 900 miles from our home, each way. I saw many accidents, some quite serious, overturned SUV's, multiple car pileups, etc. and I'm quite certain that most were the result of unsafe speeding

 

[nkb]

if a cop in your area is writing bad tickets and enough people contest those tickets, the judge will see a pattern (if there is one) and figure it out.... judges aint stupid and they don't just automatically believe the cop.....

Well, unfortunately, most people just pay (97%), and don't take it to court. So, the pattern is very hard to determine. And, I have come across very few judges that didn't dismiss valid reasons (even presented by two different witnesses) because he believed the cop. I think a cop would have to be extremely blatant about it to be caught.
Part of the problem is, almost everyone that takes their ticket to court says they didn't do it. The judges have heard all the lines (legitimate or not), and are probably more likely to not believe the common schmoe.

if you present a legitimate defense with articuable facts, you have a least a chance of winning.....

Completely depends on the judge. You can have the most unassailable facts to back you up, the judge can dismiss them with a wave of the hand, and find you guilty.

My point with the reference to Germany's fatalities compared to ours, and the lack of driving knowledge that is imparted on US drivers was to show that pulling over speeders is not the answer to making roads safe. More driver's education, and tougher license tests is.

And, by the way, speed traps are set up all the time in states where they are allowed to. The reason you don't see them more is because they have been deemed illegal in some states. I still see them here, outside of Dallas, on the main highway I use to go to work, where I have never seen or heard about a fatal crash in the 10 years I've lived here. Go figure.

 

[JaguarXJ6]

In CA, if your not in the rural area, a detector comes in great handy, you can get early enough warning to control your speed.

My first ticket ever, 87 in a 65. The officer said he pulled me over because traffic peaked at 84, I was doing 87, and traffic slowed down to 80 in a 65.

I was told with no notice I need to go 150 miles through traffic to two different airports to drop off guests because I had the 4 seater, and I had the best chance of success.

The officer did get me out of there in under 10 minutes and knocked it down to a 75 in a 65. I took my lumps and saved my traffic school for another day.

Speed safe and you'd be surprised at what is overlooked.

 

[jrehner]

drop ticket speed

One note on this last subject--if there is no radar involved and "pacing" by a non traffic officer is involved, lowering the speed is a disfavor to you because under 15mph you have to prove you are innocent and over that the court has to do so...Another thing, if you fight the ticket--make sure you interview the officer prior to court especially to establish exactly where he first began to pace you and how long he did so---there is little case law to establish any distance required for pacing...In my case, I found out after the fact, that the officer allegedly paced me going thru an intersection--that's it. I had just created a hung jury in a DUI trial a week previous--very coincidental......I was not even driving my NSX---of course I was given sobriety tests ( I passed).

Another point----speed tickets are supposed to be based on speed reasonable and prudent---If you are going 75 in a 55 on a straight stretch of road with no other traffic around in an NSX, I would say that is reasonable and prudent---the little towns with their little police forces are not going to agree with that however...

 

[ricdanger]

crikey!

after reading this thread all I can say is that you guys on the other side of the pacific have it EASY!!!

In Melbourne (Australia) we now have 60 fixed and hidden cameras on our metropolitain road system. The rub here is that the allowance is only 3%!!


This means that you will get booked doing 63kmh in a 60 zone, 84kmh in an 80 zone.

If I drive from Melbourne to Geelong at a steady 84kmh I will come home to over $1500 in fines and a lost licence for 12 months!! The worst thing is, you don't even know for 2 weeks until you receive the fines!!

Unreal..

The government (not the police, not the courts) receive the proceeds and are currently raking in $2M per day in Melbourne alone!

Not only do you get the fine, but you also receive "demerit points". Twelve demerits and you lose your licence.

Exceed speed limit by:
< 15kmh 1point $135
>15 and <30kmh 3 points ~$250
>30kmh 6 points and 1 month suspension ~$400
>45kmh 12 points and 12 month ban! ~$800

The police back up the government on this and say things on their website like "placed in accident black spots" etc etc but the reality is that their nearly all on wide open downhill runs... grrr

Personally I received 3 fines in 3 months for 64kmh in a 60 zone in the city tunnell. A 2.5kmh downhill followed by a 4kmh uphill.

The irony is that now I spend so much time watching my speedo I'm even more distracted and dangerous than if I was allowed to drive with the flow of the traffic.

So what do you do????
well - I love speed - and we have 3 world class race tracks in Melbourne (incl the famous Philip Island home of the recent MotoGp Grand Prix) so racing as often as possible is important.

But for daily driving??? I cruise at about 10kmh UNDER the limit, get lots of annoyed drivers backing up behind me.

However I have to be careful because if my speed falls more than 15kmh BELOW the limit I could be tagged with "obstructing traffic" !!!! 1 point and $135!!! GRRRRRR

Fair Dinkum! It really gives me the sh!ts.

PS: I have always found traffic cops extremely reasonable and friendly when I've managed to get tagged with a hand-held laser, often reducing the severity of the ticket or giving me a warning. Cops in Melbourne are really p!ssed off from all the abuse re the speed cameras.