DIY - replacing TB with SOS Big Bore Throttle Body

MvM

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For a long time I had considered the possible advantages of the ScienceofSpeed Big Bore Throttle Body. It seems that opinions on this modifications are somewhat divided. I had already added Taitec headers and had just mounted the Cantrell air intake scoop. With those mods, the car was revving very nicely with a mean sound added to it from the intake. I decided that adding a BBTB might not deliver any real gains in terms of horsepower but that it sure wouldn't hurt my engine in reaching its revlimiter just a little quicker. And a quicker revving engine should mean faster acceleration now shouldn't it. So I ordered the BBTB, sat back and waited. When the package came in out came a very shiny throttle body that looked like new. The butterfly valve especially was shining like a mirror.

5180BBTB1.JPG


For changing the throttle body only a few tools are needed. One or two screwdrivers, a wrench and a pair of pliers will do. The first thing to do is loosen the hooses attached to it. For this, screwdriver and a pair of pliers is all that is needed. The large air hoose is clamped so for this you need the screwdriver. The smaller hooses have a spring clamp on them. Squeeze the clamp with the pliers and you should be able to pull the hoose free without too much problems.

5180BBTB3.JPG


After the main air hoose is loose you have to remove the complete airbox. Loosen the four screws with a long screwdriver and remove the airbox. After that, there are four nuts holding the trottle body, two on top and two below. Loosen them with a wrench. Make sure that you loosen the lower hoose which can be a bit tight.
Pulling the top cooling hoose free will result in the loose of a little of cooling fluid. At first I was a little concerned about this but my mechanic said it was so little it would not cause any problems when starting the car.
After the removal of the four nuts you have to remove the throttle cable. This you have to do carefully to make sure you will not bend or damage it. With one hand, you can pull the throttle all the way open and then remove the throttle cable. It is attached in the same way as the door lock cable is attached to the door handle. After this, you can remove the complete throttle body.

5180BBTB4.JPG


The picture below shows the original throttle body compared with the Big Bore TB from Science of Speed. You can clearly see how the inlet has been machined out to a greater diameter over its full length.

5180BBTB5.JPG


Mouting of the new BBTB is as simple as removing it. I first cleaned the mating surfaces on the engine before fitting the BBTB. Also, there is not gasket to worry and the BBTB slides on easily. As is often the case, putting back the nuts, hooses and airbox was much easier than removing them. The final result looks like this.

5180BBTB2.JPG


After checking that I had not forgotten any hooses I started the engine and then check again for any leaks to make sure. Then, I double checked the level of cooling fluid and added just a little to make up for whatever I spilled.

Total time for this task was a little over an hour and taking it easy. It is absolutely not difficult to do. However, make sure you put some cover on the car to protect the paint as you are bending over constantly and also beware of your knuckles when working on the hooses.
And for those who are interested, the throttle body weighs 5.3 lbs (2.4kg).

The big question now on everyones mind is of course, did you notice a difference?
I had first planned on dynoing the car before changing the throttle body and then do it again after. Unfortunately, my car was not fully ready to drive at that moment so I did not have a change to do this even though I would be very interested in the results.
The car certainly revs very quickly but I cannot tell for sure if it does this any faster than before. But then again, even if it didn't help it also sure did not hurt :smile:
 
:eek:!!WOW!!:eek::eek:!!BRAVO!!ENCORE!!:eek:
THAT WAS ONE OF THE BEST AND MOST INFORMATIVE WRITE UPS I HAVE SEEN IN AWHILE!

Chris_holly_clap.jpg


But, yes I do wonder if this mod is worth its weight in $$dough$$? I'm amazed SOS doesn't already have specs/dyno's on this. I would think that more air though, equals more fuel...:confused: I dunno, what do ya'll think?
 
One little note to add. Watch your fingertips around the inlet of the BBTB. It is machined to the point that the edge is very thin and very sharp. Mechanix Gloves were invented for a reason. :)

Great DIY btw.
 
Yes,
Excellent write up. I was thinking about getting the BBTB from SOS. I have their Cantrell air intake thing and a custom air filter. I was thinking of getting this and the tuned intake manifold but heard that the manifold was not worth it unless the car was more modified. Anyway, thanks for the write up.
 
I've thought about this mod for a long time myself.

thanx for the write up.
 
Good DYI
Sounds like a good concept but why fix something that is not broke if it cost money and dose not noticeably improve anything ?

Dose it make a difference, Idle smoother, run any better, rev noticeably quicker?
 
Well, I've now driven about 2500 miles with the SOS BBTB on the car (obviously, it's back on the road). Have had the car up to 160 mph on two occasions without running the car out of breath (but run out of road-space). and on several times more up to around 130-150.
The engine rev's very quickly, but as I've said before it was a bit too long ago to be able to make a fair comparison with the car in stock form.

Please note that I have also added the Cantrell AIS and that most probably also helps in getting the rpm up more quickly than the stock tube.
All put together, I am happy I've done this mod as well.
Since then I've replaced the Taitec GTC exhaust with the Taitec GTLW and hope to get the car dynoed within two weeks time.
 
im curious, is the nsx's stock intake manifold's inlet wide enough to accompany the new throttle with out porting? i havent read about anyone porting the im for the bigger throttle and if the inlet is smaller than the tb then you really wont see any gains
 
The concern here is flow, and flow is always limited by the limiting factor, which in this case will be the smallest diameter in the flow path. Changing the TB dows not really make any difference unless the inner diameter of the connecting flow chamber is also enlarged (assuming it was not already larger, but I do not believe it is).

So, the mod is made more effective, if, during the installation, the port opening that it connects to (shown in your third picture I think), on the engine side of the intake, is also enlarged.

This can be done roughly with either sandpaper, or a dremel, hard grinding bit, soft grinding bit, and polishing bits, but for acuracy, it would be better with machining. ****CAREFUL WITH THAT CUTTING BIT, aluminium cuts fast*****

Back before the turn of the century (I just love saying that) at an install of 3 CTSC in Austin, I was given the job of porting and polishing the CTSC manifold to not only port match the intake, but to be flow optimised from at least a non-restirctive point of view, since we did not have any real flow test equimpment. Anyway, 80 grit sand paper, sore hands, and few hours later, I was very suprised at how the paper removed the aluminium material! Actually to the point that when we finished, we were worried that the porosity of the material at it's new thickness, might be causing vapour leaks when under pressure (but that is a different story....turns out I pinched an "O" ring while assembling....again, sorry Karl!).

Anyway, moral of the story was that CT siad they had dyno tested with and without porting & polishing, with no notisable results. But hey, as mentioned above, I do not think it can hurt!!
 
ScienceofSpeed Info [email protected] via gotrice.com
12:31 PM (1 hour ago)

to Frank
Yes, this was posted on NSXPrime, perhaps 3-4 years ago? We did testing
with this and various intake/filters. The gain on a supercharged car was
9 hp. On NA, 3 hp.

regards,
-- Chris

anybody happen to remember if dyno sheets were posted?
 
The inner diameters of a stock NSX intake system can be seen below. The smallest diameter upstream of the intake runners is at the throttle plate. For that reason, a big bore throttle body seemed like it would make sense.

OEM_NSX_intake_tract_dimensions_v3.jpg



I recently sent my OEM throttle body to SoS for their boring out service, as MvM did. It came back beautifully cleaned. The throttle plate now looks like it’s made of a white metal instead of the brass the OEM plate is made of. Boring out the throttle body has increased its inner diameter and at the leading edge, the wall left standing is about 1mm thick.

SoS_bored_out_throttle_body.jpg



To determine how much larger the new throttle plate is, I first measured the OEM throttle plate. That has a diameter of 64.4mm.

OEM_throttle_plate.jpg



I laid the OEM throttle plate into the bored out throttle body, pushed it to one side, and laid a little ruler on top to measure the clearance to the wall. The little ruler has graduations 1mm apart so at the plate, the SoS bored out throttle body is about 2mm larger than stock.

OEM_plate_in_SoS_bored_out_throttle_body.jpg



All told, the inner diameter of the throttle body has increased by 2.8mm at the entrance (68.0mm OEM to 70.8mm SoS), about 2.0mm at the throttle plate (64.4mm OEM to about 66.4mm SoS), and by 1.3mm at the exit (64.6mm OEM to 65.9mm SoS). I checked with SoS and those are the dimensions they expect from their boring out service.

I also checked how well the bellows and gasket at either end of the throttle body matched up with the increased diameter. The OEM bellows between the airbox and the throttle body has a bellmouth cast into the rubber that smoothly feeds air to the throttle body.

SoS_throttle_body_and_OEM_bellows.jpg



You can see it better here.

Airbox_Throttle_body_bellows_intake_side.jpg



Just behind that bellmouth is a step that port matches the bellmouth to the entrance of the stock throttle body.

Airbox_Throttle_body_bellows_exit_side.jpg



The entrance of my throttle body has had its diameter increased so it’s no longer port matched to the bellmouth in the bellows. The bellmouth is not that easy to get to and I was afraid that if I tried to port match it to the newly enlarged throttle body entrance, I’d butcher it and do more harm than good. Since the bellmouth has a larger diameter than the throttle body does at the plate, the bellmouth shouldn’t be a bottleneck anyhow so I just left it alone.

SoS_throttle_body_OEM_bellows_and_intake_manifold_gasket.jpg



The smallest effective cross section is found at the throttle plate because of the diameter at that point and because even when the throttle plate fully open, it still blocks part of the area. It doesn’t disappear when you open the throttle, it just rotates by 90°. At that point, boring out the throttle body by 2mm increased the effective cross section by about 6.8% (Pi*r2 and all that).

Based on what I have heard from Kaz, the stock throttle body doesn’t measurably choke a stock NA1 but it does just start to cost horsepower in a stock NA2. If you have increased horsepower but want to keep the same maximum airspeed past the throttle plate as in a stock NA1, I therefore figure you will need to increase the size of the throttle plate. Increasing the effective cross section by about 6.8% will allow an NSX putting out 288 crank horsepower to have the same maximum airspeed past the throttle plate as a stock NA1 does when it puts out 270 hp.

The gasket between the throttle body and the intake manifold is much easier to get to than the bellmouth in the bellows. In stock form, my gasket had a diameter 1.2mm larger than the exit of the throttle body. Like that, there could be no sharp edges sticking in to the airflow. Since SoS bored out the exit of the throttle body by 1.3mm, there was a bit of a sharp edge sticking into the airflow. However, it was easy to hold the gasket to the throttle body and the intake manifold, feel where lips or sharp edges jut into the airflow, and get to work with an X-acto knife.

Port_matched_throttle_body_intake_manifold_gasket.jpg



All in all, I’m happy with SoS’s boring out service, even if it didn't result in the advertised +5mm. A couple of suggestions:
  1. for people who continue using the OEM bellows between the airbox and the throttle body, I think it would probably be better not to bore out the entrance of the throttle body. At 68mm, the stock entrance has a larger diameter than the bored out throttle plate anyhow and if you leave it at 68mm, the entrance is port-matched to the bellmouth in the bellows.
  2. if it’s possible to bore out the throttle body by more than 2mm at the plate, do it. 2mm is great for mildly modified NA1s and stock NA2s. At higher horsepower levels like the 300 whp (345 crank hp) L_RAO is shooting for, a larger diameter would be better.
  3. consider what material the throttle plate should be made of. Honda chose to put a brass plate into the aluminum throttle body. Leica uses brass on aluminum in their higher-end camera lenses. A brass plate in an aluminum throttle body seems like it should be a good material pairing.
 
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I did this mod about 8 years ago when i did the Cantrell intake, K&N filter and headers, hi-flow cats and exhaust, it seemed to help but not by much however i have since port matched the Intake Manifold i also put on the Procar carbon intake tube from the airbox and got rid of the OEM bellows and it seems way smoother and quicker on the throttle.
fuel consumption has not been affected i am also going to be doing the RDX injector upgrade soon when it gets here (hurry up Brian)when i do that i will check a bit more closely on the porting of the IM and the gasket inbetween to see if i can improve it some more.
this time i will get some dynos before and after, not much help for seeing how it was before if you are thinking about this but for staying N/A every bit helps.
 
By "port matching" do you mean you cut away some of the gasket as stated above? To match it with the aft portion of the TB of course.
 
The gasket looked fine for size, but we are going to relook at it more closely when the RDX injectors arrive, what we port matched was the intake on the other side of the gasket which did not match the gasket that well.
 
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