Direct Turbo System Dyno Comparison - LoveFab vs. "Brand X".

[RYU]

I wonder how accurate this turbo sizing app is. If I had an iPhone i'd use it to check if your test parameters matches what the app is recommending.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/adviser/index.html

Turbo sizing for my own car has always been a source of uneasiness for me but it's nice to vendors like LoveFab push for efficiency not just raw HP/TQ.

More on the App...

The Garrett Boost Adviser is a tool developed by Honeywell which helps you identify Garrett turbochargers that meet your goals. You may download it from the iTunes store if you have an iPhone or iPad. It is really easy to use. Install the tool, key in a few parameters for your engine and your horse power goal. In a matter of seconds, the Garrett Boost Adviser will return expected results and recommended Garrett turbochargers. It also guides you to the nearest distributors available to buy the matched turbo. You could even email the results to yourself for review or share them on your Facebook page.

 

[PATCHEZ]

Im woundering did anybody test brandX turbo at 8psi to see what it would do.I mean you said it was running 5psi with 352hp 250tq.The graphs look great but if the old turbo was never ran at 8psi then is it a fair comparison to the 58mm.Maybe the ypipe was better for the larger turbo.It would have been a better comparison if the brandX turbo was graphed at 8psi then swaped to the 58mm then 58mm with lovefab stage2.That would be a fair full comparison. I would think.But now that its all changed we may never know.

Hey guys,

A customer brought his 120,000 mile 1991 to us wanting more low-end torque out of his already-turbocharged NSX. We strapped the car to the dyno for a "baseline", which resulted in 352.9WHP and 250.7WTQ at 5 psi.

We removed the large turbo from the kit and installed a Billet 58mm Precision charger. Complimenting the turbo swap, we also installed an AEM EMS, Walbro Pump, RC 750cc injectors and then tuned it to a safe threshold. At 8 psi, with the 58mm Precision installed in the "Brand X" kit, the car made a healthy 397.1WHP and 273.9WTQ with massive low-end gains.

The customer was hoping for more power. I suggested that we swap over to the LoveFab Stage 2 turbo system, which should net an impressive power gain. I also wanted a chance to directly compare our Stage 2 against the competition. Direct power losses/gains would be recorded because the same turbo was used in both tests, and at the same boost levels.

We installed the LoveFab Stage 2 system with the same 58mm Precision turbo, and retuned the car. The same dyno was used, with the same dyno settings, and very similar atmospheric conditions were present during both sessions. The end result is impressive to say the least.

"Brand X" turbo kit, 8 psi. 397.1WHP/273.9WTQ
LoveFab Stage 2, 8psi. 455.9WHP/322.3WTQ

LoveFab Stage 2 Gains: 58.8WHP and 48.4WTQ


Final Dyno Comparison Graph. "Brand X" baseline vs. LoveFab Stage 2

LoveFab Stage 2 Gains: 103WHP and 71.6WTQ

"Impressive power gains Cody," were the first words from the customer after his first drive. We tend to agree.

 

[NSXR2]

The charger was changed to a Billet 58mm on Brand x and then dynoed netting 397 hp, then the Billet 58mm was put on the lovefab piping and it netted 455 hp. Both setups were run at 8 psi. Thats were the comparison is fair.

Ultimately, regardless of the turbocharger thats installed, if changing out just the pipes and keeping psi the same alters your power this dramatically, it damn near shocking. I will admit its put lovefab back on my radar.

 

[PATCHEZ]

Yes but to say one is better isn't fair.like I said what would brand x turbo do at 8psi.Who knows maybe brandx at 8psi would make more but we don't know since it wasn't ran at 8psi and what type of header was on the car with brand x?. If it wasn't after market of course lovefab would be better.Was the 58mm ran with meth? If so I bet they added timing witch if brand x didn't have meth timing would be less creating less power.

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

Yes but to say one is better isn't fair.like I said what would brand x turbo do at 8psi.Who knows maybe brandx at 8psi would make more but we don't know since it wasn't ran at 8psi and what type of header was on the car with brand x?. If it wasn't after market of course lovefab would be better.Was the 58mm ran with meth? If so I bet they added timing witch if brand x didn't have meth timing would be less creating less power.

No Methanol or any other power adder was installed on this car at any time.

Top Speed headers were used in conjunction with the "Brand X" turbo kit.

We would have run the car to 8psi during the "Baseline run", but the supplied fuel system was pegged at just 5psi. The customer did not like the laggy turbo that came with the old kit, so he had us swap the turbo before we wasted our time and his trying to salvage the previous setup.

I should note that we have tuned other "Brand X" kits. They had made around 400whp at 8psi with the turbo that they are spec'd with.

 

[NetViper]

No Methanol or any other power adder was installed on this car at any time.

Top Speed headers were used in conjunction with the "Brand X" turbo kit.

We would have run the car to 8psi during the "Baseline run", but the supplied fuel system was pegged at just 5psi. The customer did not like the laggy turbo that came with the old kit, so he had us swap the turbo before we wasted our time and his trying to salvage the previous setup.

I should note that we have tuned other "Brand X" kits. They had made around 400whp at 8psi with the turbo that they are spec'd with.

If the BrandX kit is the one I think it is I have seen and rode in a 97 with 427rwhp with no meth with stock headers at 8psi. However, the turbo does take a while to spool and the tq curve is nothing like what cody has done.

However, it is still very fast and fun to drive. The owner has now sent his car to SOS for a stage 1 build, so we'll see what happens.

 

[Ko-nsx]

Top Speed headers were used in conjunction with the "Brand X" turbo kit.

I should note that we have tuned other "Brand X" kits. They had made around 400whp at 8psi with the turbo that they are spec'd with.

Ok you spilled the beans on the headers, who is brand "x"??:biggrin:

 

[doc_tai]

is it cosmo car? using angus kit? better header and water to air intercooler of course it's gonna show gain on dyno.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Let me throw this into the mix.........


BobK just had a turbo done and made 400hp and about 350 tq. It appears that Mase that did BobK's car and Coty at lovefab use the same turbo. How is it that they have the same torque but 50hp difference? I know Mase uses a water to air cooler.

Any thoughts?

 

[doc_tai]

I'm not surprise that lovefab header make 35 more whp and cody been tuned nsx motor for years now. So he might able pull some more whp out of it.

 

[clr1024]

Since it appears we aren't naming brand-x can we state what the $/hp is brand-x vs lovefab stage 2? Just curious.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

I can tell you Steve Mase knows a ton about tuning. He has done countless GTR's, NSX's, Hondas of all sorts and a twin turbo 1100 hp Ford GT.

See the bad azz youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhSdviSGsJc

I'm not surprise that lovefab header make 35 more whp and cody been tuned nsx motor for years now. So he might able pull some more whp out of it.

 

[NetViper]

Let me throw this into the mix.........


BobK just had a turbo done and made 400hp and about 350 tq. It appears that Mase that did BobK's car and Coty at lovefab use the same turbo. How is it that they have the same torque but 50hp difference? I know Mase uses a water to air cooler.

Any thoughts?

BobK has factory headers for a 95... so they are awful. (sorry Bob )

My guess is the lovefab headers would put him very close.

Bob is also running a 61mm turbo vs 58mm and going from 8psi at 3800RPM to 6psi at 8000.

Cody's piping may be better. I have no idea.

Also, Mase uses Dyno Dynamics vs a Mustang Dyno.

When Alex and Bob line them up, then we can really see the difference.

 

[NSX-Files]

BobK has factory headers for a 95... so they are awful. (sorry Bob )

My guess is the lovefab headers would put him very close.

Bob is also running a 61mm turbo vs 58mm and going from 8psi at 3800RPM to 6psi at 8000.

Cody's piping may be better. I have no idea.

Also, Mase uses Dyno Dynamics vs a Mustang Dyno.

When Alex and Bob line them up, then we can really see the difference.

Hey NetViper, BobK has a PT62 not a 61mm. Get your facts straight, Dummy! Otherwise, I find your contribution to this thread to be insightful and very informative. Keep up the good work, old chap!

 

[NetViper]

Hey NetViper, BobK has a PT62 not a 61mm. Get your facts straight, Dummy! Otherwise, I find your contribution to this thread to be insightful and very informative. Keep up the good work, old chap!

My bad...

"His kit uses a Precision ball bearing turbo with the latest style billet wheels that he custom chooses to the customers goals. In my particular case he used the 62-62 with a 70 AR compressor and a 58 exhaust housing set up for V Band. "

I would write about the benefits of the Bell TT kit, but there are none. :biggrin:

 

[doc_tai]

I can tell you Steve Mase knows a ton about tuning. He has done countless GTR's, NSX's, Hondas of all sorts and a twin turbo 1100 hp Ford GT.

See the bad azz youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhSdviSGsJc

yes but he doesnt know nsx like cody does.

 

[NetViper]

yes but he doesnt know nsx like cody does.

You obviously don't know anything about mase.

 

[doc_tai]

You obviously don't know anything about mase.

I never said he wasnt good but between mase and cody, I'll choose cody over him to tune my nsx. Fyi my tuner tune over 20 supras that make more than 1000 whp and his shop supra make around 1700 whp

 

[Jack Sparrow]

What does LoveFab think about GT35R turbo's?

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Let me throw this into the mix.........


BobK just had a turbo done and made 400hp and about 350 tq. It appears that Mase that did BobK's car and Coty at lovefab use the same turbo. How is it that they have the same torque but 50hp difference? I know Mase uses a water to air cooler.

Any thoughts?

Clearly you can see something is going wrong with this dyno. Huge spike in torque down low, and it just starts dropping off all the way to redline. I commented on it a few posts down in his thread. I think the lovefab kit with far less torque and more horsepower would be less stressful on the motor. The dyno doesn't even go to 8000rpm, it would have dropped off more. Maybe its due to the stock headers I'm not sure.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145899

 

[NetViper]

Clearly you can see something is going wrong with this dyno. Huge spike in torque down low, and it just starts dropping off all the way to redline. I commented on it a few posts down in his thread. I think the lovefab kit with far less torque and more horsepower would be less stressful on the motor. The dyno doesn't even go to 8000rpm, it would have dropped off more. Maybe its due to the stock headers I'm not sure.

That is his Boost... it peaks at 8psi early and drops off to 6psi. If he upgraded the boost controller, it would look different. There is nothing wrong with the dyno. I am sure the stock headers don't help.

That being said, lovefab TQ curve is freaking amazing.

 

[Juice]

What does LoveFab think about GT35R turbo's?

I'm pretty sure he is a fan of the Garrett's, but I don't think he would usually use a 35R with a stock motor. Tim (Jorligan) may have one on his built motor...can't remember.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

That is his Boost... it peaks at 8psi early and drops off to 6psi. If he upgraded the boost controller, it would look different. There is nothing wrong with the dyno. I am sure the stock headers don't help.

That being said, lovefab TQ curve is freaking amazing.

I didn't mean with the dynamometer itself, i meant with the graph. It doesn't show a true representation of what is going on. Like you said boost was dropping off, and the stock headers are restrictive. Hence a lot more torque, and a lot less power, both at "8psi". Just giving explanation to what he was wondering.

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

What does LoveFab think about GT35R turbo's?

GT35R's are great, especially for stock to mildly built NSX's.

We have a system out there now using TiAL's stainless Steel V-band housing in conjunction with our ultra-lightweight exhaust system. The results are a ~20lb weight reduction from the standard LoveFab Stage 2 or Stage 3.

I've met Mase a couple times over the years, and he is a GREAT tuner.

 

[GRNSX]

Cody installed the turbo in my car. I previously had the Angus turbo installed. I have only been able to run the car hard a few times so far because of the weather but so far I like the results . The car has better power and it responds quicker than it had previously. The car comes on stronger at lower rpm. In normal driving the car drives just as if stock. The Angus turbo is a great step up from stock and I found it to be a quality system. The problem for me was getting the car tuned. I just could not find a reputable source near me that would tune it. This was my biggest hesitation when I purchased the system and it really became a problem for me. I was never able to resolve that problem. This is one reason I eventually called Cody .Having someone able to tune the car that is very knowledgeable on NSX's has been a huge plus.
I would still recommend the Angus turbo as a great step up from stock. It's a great kit but only if you have a tuner familiar with the NSX. This is just my opinion. I had great difficulty finding someone in my area to work on the car so I never was comfortable.
With that said, I really wanted the power to come on quicker and earlier. Talk to Cody about going to a different size (58mm) to see if that would produce better results. The rest of the story has been well documented by Cody on this thread.
For me this is a better fit. I like the power and the power curve it provides. I also have someone close by to tune the car if issues arise. I will take more time to give an in depth evaluation but I am pleased so far. The extra power and the way it comes on is very impressive.
For me it was really about the ability to tap the knowledge of someone that knew my car better than me and did the work himself. There is no doubt in my mind that Wil also has a wealth of knowledge on these cars but I needed someone that would also tune the car. I don't think this may be a problem in other areas of the country but it is where I live.
I have been blessed to be able to run 2 great turbo systems in my lifetime. How great is that?