Did Bush Lie About WMDs

[DrVolkl]

Yeah, it's all about Oil.

If we went into Iraq for Oil, where is it?

Hell, we're still footing the bill for Iraq reconstruction and we haven't gotten drop one from Iraq.

Oh, if Nasty Big Oil is to blame for rising gas prices, now that gas is coming down in price, who's to blame for that?

You guys are actually pretty funny. Yeah, let's see...for every pro-Bush or pro-McCain (since everyone knows there SO MUCH alike) post that I make, I get 1 gallon of gas and a thank you note from Dick Cheney written on Halliburton stationery. Yeah, that's the ticket!! Buahahhahaaaa!!

Now I agree that not every country should have Nukes...but then again, do we deserve them either? It's a tough philosophical debate...but anyhow...we are the self-proclaimed nuke police. Not sure how we decided that we get to do this...police the world...but anyhow, that's what you get for being #1. Expect to be challenged here and there.

As for as oil, that's over simplification. We have an ALLY in the region. The payoff will not be direct...but we have SECURED our source of oil for the future.

Guess what, it's going to cost $$...and guess who's getting rich off it?

Do not mistake going into Iraq = free oil....it doesn't. Just means we have access to the tap.

Hence, no Darfur...

 

[flaminio]

A 2nd grader could figure this one out folks.

End of discussion.

You are correct, sir.

The folk who are saying it's about WMDs, or oil, or terrorists, or whatever are missing the big picture.

 

[BD]

Now I agree that not every country should have Nukes...but then again, do we deserve them either? .[/b]

Dude, our nukes won the WWII, our nuke program bankrupted USSR, our nuke is sitting chilling and haven't being used since WWII.

Iran wants to get them so they can wipe Isreal off the face of the earth.

Terrorist will use any thing to kill.

Saddam offered each suicide bomber $25k to his/her family.

Without USA, the world will collapse in every way.

Just look at the history, the mess UK, France, Span, Germany, Japan, created in the past, we ended up having to clean them up. When we decided to do some thing, they protest, but they still want us to continue to take care of them.

The world does evolve around this nation. With US, the entire world would have either be speaking German or under Communism.

 

[Dtrigg]

drv,

with all due respect, we know iraq didn't directly attack us on 9-11.

You're really missing the point. The problems with iraq go way back to iraq's invasion of kuwait. The second gulf war was never a direct response to 9-11.

Sure, after 9-11 our tolerance for terrorists simply ran out. Bush said, and rightfully so that we weren't going to tolerate any more nonsense regardless. The real reasons for us going into iraq the second time was because of the following...

1. The inability of the useless, toothless, corrupt (remember oil-for-food and the corrupt kofi annan) un to get saddam to comply with their own resolutions.

2. The intelligence (that both dems, repubs and other countries agreed upon) that saddam had a wmd capability.

3. The fact that saddam had showed a willingness to use such a capability in the past.

4. The potential that he could use such weapons again, or more likely, that he would funnel such weapons to terrorists like al qaida.

5. And finally, the real likelihood that other wacked countries (i.e. North korea, iran, etc) would see the un's lame attempts at enforcement (after 10 years of failing) and would be emboldened by this and become more adventuresome. I mean how many times do you tell the bad guy, don't do what you're doing. At some point you have to draw a line. And then when the bad guys cross the line you have to take action.

Oh, what gives us the right to keep other countries from obtaining nuclear technology? Well, how about we start off by saying, that if a country who declares that israel should be wiped off the map, that it's probably not a great idea that said country gets to have nukes? And we have wide backing from the rest of the world on this.

You know, it's pretty obvious where you stand when you make such comments like you can't blame iraq and why shouldn't every other country deserve to get nukes. To say that i disagree with you is putting it mildly.

+ 1

 

[DrVolkl]

Dude, our nukes won the WWII, our nuke program bankrupted USSR, our nuke is sitting chilling and haven't being used since WWII.

.

Dude, our troops won WWII. Our nukes kept us from invading Japan...the war was already won at that point.

It saved a ton of lives at the expense of a ton of Japanese lives. Personally, I think it was more payback for Pearl Harbor.

But anyhow, it's not really important for this discussion.

 

[BD]

Dude, our troops won WWII. Our nukes kept us from invading Japan...the war was already won at that point.

It saved a ton of lives at the expense of a ton of Japanese lives. Personally, I think it was more payback for Pearl Harbor.

But anyhow, it's not really important for this discussion.

Our troops were having problems, that is why the nukes were used to end the war ASAP.

The Japanese military would not surrendered and have fought to the death if the whole Pacific War were fought by only bullets and missiles. It was the destruction by the nukes cause the worthless emperor to take action because he rather loose the war than loose the nation.

The US government was dying to join the war except the public opinion did not point that way until the Pearl Harbor attack. The president used it as a way to rally the nation. Why do you think we finished off the Germans first? They didn't attack Pearl Harbor!!!



I originally stated that Iraq war is a neccessary war, just a matter of time before any one act on it, and Bush did. Even if Obama gets elected, his promise of troop withdraw will not happen, because Iraq war is pertty much over (We just turned over the last province back to Iraq). I have no doubt Obama will just take the credit for it. We will be there forever just like we are still in Japan and Germany to keep that region in check. Once a free market economic system is created, they will beg us to stay because of Iran. If Obama goes into Pakistan, yes, you will see some serious blood shed, not just the people in Pakistan, but the US casualty will be much greater than the five years we spend in Iraq. Pakistan already has nukes.

The bigger pictures is, to prevent WWIII. If Iran gets nukes, they will use it. If Pakistan use their nukes, India will too.

 

[heySkippy]

The world does evolve around this nation. With US, the entire world would have either be speaking German or under Communism.

You have a very short view of history.

 

[BD]

You have a very short view of history.

Hey Skippy.

It's not a short view of the history. It's a fact. Considering what the accomplishment of this nation during only 232 years of history.

Let me ask you a simple question.

What do you think the world would be today if US doesn't exist?

 

[heySkippy]

Hey Skippy.

It's not a short view of the history. It's a fact. Considering what the accomplishment of this nation during only 232 years of history.

232 years? Most of those years the US was a backwater wilderness. It's only been in the last 60 years that the US has been a world power.

Let me ask you a simple question.

What do you think the world would be today if US doesn't exist?

You call that a simple question?

Okay, let's assume that we lost the Revolutionary War and didn't gain our independence in 1776. Having beat down the colonies, England is now pissed at France...

Wait, this is not going to be a simple question. We're going to need Harry Turtledove to finish this story.

 

[BD]

232 years? Most of those years the US was a backwater wilderness. It's only been in the last 60 years that the US has been a world power.



You call that a simple question?

Okay, let's assume that we lost the Revolutionary War and didn't gain our independence in 1776. Having beat down the colonies, England is now pissed at France...

Wait, this is not going to be a simple question. We're going to need Harry Turtledove to finish this story.

Therefore, you discount all of the US history until 1943?

I like the way you answered it. It's weak and without substance.

Please explain how the world DOES NOT evolve around the US TODAY?

 

[nsxotic911]

You know sometimes I think I've been in a timewarp or something.

Everyone agreed Iraq had WMDs. There was no doubt or question about this. Our politicians, right and left, agreed on this. Other countries agreed too. We know Saddam used poison gas several times.

Listen to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBchVE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4mMon404pM&feature=related

Of course, then after giving Saddam every chance (over a period of 10 years I might add) to come clean - and after it was clear that Saddam would continue his game, President Bush decided to act.

Now when we went into Iraq and did not find massive quantities of WMDs, what happened? The Dems took the opportunity to demagogue and trash Bush, even though they agreed with the initial assessment. Instead of coming together and really focusing on what happened to the WMDs or why was our intelligence (and the intelligence of other countries) not precise.

So where did the WMDs go? Well, we did give Saddam more than enough time to move these materials to other countries (i.e. Syria). And its also possible that Saddam did not have the massive quantities that EVERYONE thought he did. I've heard several people suggest Saddam wanted to give Iran the impression that he had lots of WMDs in order to keep Iran at bay.

Anyway, what really makes me sick is how the Democrats took advantage of the situation in order to further their own political gain. Not one Democrat had the guts and honesty to say, look, this isn't something we should blame Bush about. You can be damn well sure Bush would have been blamed if Saddam would have used WMDs before we acted.

9/11: Bush's fault
Iraq: Bush's fault
Economy: Bush's fault
NSX trouble: Bushs' fault.
The reason my house value went up: Fannie Mae, subprime lending, ACORN and Democrats.
The reason my houe value went down: Bush's fault.
The reason we historically go through a recession roughly every 10 years: Bush's fault.
Didn't get as big of a bonus: Bush's fault.
The reaons that America will pick the most unqualified Presidnet in 100 years: Bush's fault (at least 50% serious here..)
By extension, the reason America will be worse after 4 years of Obama: Bush's fault.
The reason we are winning in Iraq and will come home in victory: Obama.


The reason I haven't been laid... in a few days biggrin: Bush's fault.

I came across an interesting quote today...

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.”

Where do you think we are? I think we're at the selfishness to complacency.

 

[steveny]

Did Bush Lie About WMDs

YES

 

[Dtrigg]

Just curious, but do you folks that think George Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in order to go to war in Iraq must also think that George Bush, Dick Cheney, et. al also made a decision to send American troops to war without regard of having them killed or wounded. In other words, he had no concern for those 2,000 lives of American troops killed in Iraq or those thousands of troops wounded? I would think that would be the most important decision an American President could ever make. But George Bush just didn’t care because he is that evil?

 

[da3dalus]

^^ Your talking about a guy who literally can't figure out why we aren't embraced by the Iraqi people... or why our popularity worldwide is at all time lows... he isn't grounded on this earth. Hes got blinders on to the world. I'm not saying hes evil, i'm just saying he isn't in touch with reality.

 

[sahtt]

Where do you think we are? I think we're at the selfishness to complacency.

You are optimistic my friend. We've long since gone from apathy to dependence as a nation.

Look around. What is our voting rate? 50%? Not even? How many people are NET tax receivers? 50%? Probably more. Which way do you think the momentum is going?

It will be interesting to see how the greatest expansion of wealth in the history of mankind (last 20 years) is eventually spent. Not looking too good right now.

 

[BD]

^^ Your talking about a guy who literally can't figure out why we aren't embraced by the Iraqi people... or why our popularity worldwide is at all time lows... he isn't grounded on this earth. Hes got blinders on to the world. I'm not saying hes evil, i'm just saying he isn't in touch with reality.

I wouldn't consider the Iraqis are NOT embracing the US action and troops.

You will always have some pissed off people no matter what you do, for example, Saddam's close associates and their friends/family, which is the most minor part of the population.

The fact that currently, there are no more road/suicide bomber now in Iraq than in Israel is the testimony for that.

As I have indicated, the Iraq war is pertty much at its end and all we have to do is police the place where the Iran/Syrian supported terrorist activities don't occur on a regular basis. This is no different than dealing with the Japanese and Germans after WWII.

 

[Dtrigg]

^^ Your talking about a guy who literally can't figure out why we aren't embraced by the Iraqi people... or why our popularity worldwide is at all time lows... he isn't grounded on this earth. Hes got blinders on to the world. I'm not saying hes evil, i'm just saying he isn't in touch with reality.

I understand your point, but I am asking that if you believe he lied then it was George Bush, Dick Chaney, Colin Powel, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CIA, etc. are all so evil that they didn't care about the lives of our troops. It wasn't ONLY George Bush. It was all of them. Are they all that evil? Do you also believe the governments of Great Britain, Russia, France, etc. were in on the deal?

Please understand I am not attempting to provoke an argument. I am just attempting to understand that if you believe he lied, an extension of that argument had to be that he had to have a total disregard for the lives of our troops in order to achieve the success of his lie.

 

[steveny]

Just curious, but do you folks that think George Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in order to go to war in Iraq must also think that George Bush, Dick Cheney, et. al also made a decision to send American troops to war without regard of having them killed or wounded. In other words, he had no concern for those 2,000 lives of American troops killed in Iraq or those thousands of troops wounded? I would think that would be the most important decision an American President could ever make. But George Bush just didn’t care because he is that evil?

Yes, yes I do. :frown:

 

[lowellhigh79]

Downing Street Memo:

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

http://downingstreetmemo.com/docs/memotext.pdf

Regards,

Danny

 

[Dtrigg]

Yes, yes I do. :frown:

Steve of course I respect your opinion. I wonder if others feel the same way. If he lied, he had to discount the lives of our troops to make his lie a reality. Not only him but his advisors, the CIA, military advisors, etc. I can understand military advisors being able to "perdict" the number of KIA and WIA in anticipation. When I was in Vietnam we always had to anticipate our losses in advance of an operation. That was just for an operation, not for a war.

If you're correct, George Buch and his advisors are probably the most disgusting individuals since Hitler. How could the President of the United States send our troop to their deaths just to prove his point?

 

[steveny]

Steve of course I respect your opinion. I wonder if others feel the same way. If he lied, he had to discount the lives of our troops to make his lie a reality. Not only him but his advisors, the CIA, military advisors, etc. I can understand military advisors being able to "perdict" the number of KIA and WIA in anticipation. When I was in Vietnam we always had to anticipate our losses in advance of an operation. That was just for an operation, not for a war.

If you're correct, George Buch and his advisors are probably the most disgusting individuals since Hitler. How could the President of the United States send our troop to their deaths just to prove his point?

The WMD could have been proved or disproved through the use of covert operations and only a few lives at risk. I don't believe there were many people close to bush that felt bush was correct in what he was doing. In fact many resigned. The modern day wars since Vietnam have been handled in the completely wrong fashion IMO. Look what ended WW2. That's not how we need to end a war it's how we need to start it and finish it in one day. If I am going to kill a bees nest I don't swat them one at a time because I will get stung. I smash the whole damn nest in one motion and the problem is solved. We should have dropped a big ass bomb in Vietnam and we should have done the same in Iraq. After we dropped one on Japan we had respect for decades. Now we look like a bunch of dogs chasing our tails.

edit. I can tell you this, all the young guys who do work for us are paniced about WW3 coming soon because of the crap that's going on right now.

 

[sahtt]

Steve of course I respect your opinion. I wonder if others feel the same way. If he lied, he had to discount the lives of our troops to make his lie a reality. Not only him but his advisors, the CIA, military advisors, etc. I can understand military advisors being able to "perdict" the number of KIA and WIA in anticipation. When I was in Vietnam we always had to anticipate our losses in advance of an operation. That was just for an operation, not for a war.

If you're correct, George Buch and his advisors are probably the most disgusting individuals since Hitler. How could the President of the United States send our troop to their deaths just to prove his point?

It's highly unlikely they did not feel some worthwhile objective would have some sort of reaonable chance of success due to the operation.

People consistently fail to think "big" enough. A significant portion of the rationale behind this operation was due to geopolitical balance of power. Iran is constrained and preoccupied, Iraq and Afganistan are within our immediate jurisdiction [not neccessarily "controlled" completely] and our allies of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, are no longer threatened by any of the above parties.

 

[Dtrigg]

It's highly unlikely they did not feel some worthwhile objective would have some sort of reaonable chance of success due to the operation.

People consistently fail to think "big" enough. A significant portion of the rationale behind this operation was due to geopolitical balance of power. Iran is constrained and preoccupied, Iraq and Afganistan are within our immediate jurisdiction [not neccessarily "controlled" completely] and our allies of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, are no longer threatened by any of the above parties.

I hate to speak for you Steve but I think you're saying that Bush and his inside group thought that it was OK to have a few thousand American troops die in sake of their lie (rational) or geopolitical objective. Correct? Just trying to understand. If this isn't correct, please help me understand and set me straight.

The reason I am asking is that people that say George Bush lied about WMDs should also be able to say not only did he lie, but they should have the coviction to say, "George Bush lied about WMDs and was willing to have thousands of American troops die to propell his lie." I mean ANYONE that is going to plan a lie like this HAS to understand the consequenses.

If he lied like some people suggest, why don't they bring charges to have him and his insiders pay for the lives of the American troops that died? I don't know, because I am only speaking for myself, but if I really thought that he lied and had thousands of troops die, I would be pretty active.

Don't understand why people say he lied and leave it at that.

 

[Osiris_x11]

idiots...

I hate posting on such thread(s). But I must because of the sheer ignorance, idiocracy (sp?), and confabulations by many esteemed individuals. I am quite disappointed to come across such myopic, anti-patriotic, and subversive discourse.

- "nukes" were a necessary end-all evil to WWII, period. For those idealist bohemian fantasy-land dreamers, please stfu & gtfo. I can't tolerate History Channel viewers & Monday morning arm-chair quarter-backs assuming they know-all about this/that.

- GW is our Commander-in-Chief. Please have some respect!

- Saddam repeatedly tried to have Bush sr' assassinated.

- Tid-bit of GW's personality trait: when a younger sibling died in adolescence, he went to his mama' (Babs') & held her tight & said no-one/nothing will ever hurt us again, I will take care of us, my word to you, me-to-you mama'. He was less than 10yrs' of age.

- When Bubba Clinton defeated Bush sr', GW was an integral member of the re-election team/infra-structure of papa Bush. He succinctly stated that wrongs will be right'ed in due-time, his commitment to his father/mother.

- Before Bush jr' even knew the White House address in the late '90s, a group of Neo'cons were already planning the Iraq invasion. Do the names Perle, Wolfowitz, Strauss, Feith, Wohlstetter, Lehman, etc' ring a bell? If they don't, then you don't know sh1t from shat. So don't comment. . .

- George Tenet (of CIA notoreity) recognized what was up (Al'Qaeda -> Afghanistan & U.S miltary bases in K.S.A. as being the antagonistic matter), and resultantly was forced out! Rumsfeld/Cheney, a.k.a. The Neo-Con Cerberus, were to run the show solely.

- GW & Colin Powell's tenacious loyalty to the greatest nation on the planet we call Earth, namely the U.S.A, was exploited.

- Anyone even know what the Church of Zion's basic premise is (ie. the messiah won't return until Greater Israel is from the river Nile to the Euphrates, yes, the Iraqi Euphrates... the stripes of the Israeli flag)? And who is a fundamental/devout member of this church/ideology... GW!

- The CIA/U.S.-gov't created a Mujahideen known as Bin Laden. Bubba Clinton created an Al Qaeda led by Bin Laden. Thank former Sec' of Defense George Cohen & Sec' of State Maddie Albright for this one. I am from there, I grew-up there, I lived there. I am of the mud/water/air of that land & region. If anyone knows, it would be me; not someone from LA, LV, NY, FL, CA, Fargo, or so forth.


This country deserves to goto heII, just by reading this thread. Most of you are such pathetic, simple-minded, ninkin-poops, it sickens me to even be associated w/ the likes of you. Please don't mind if I choose to refrain from dialogue/conversation/interaction from any of ya'll in the future if we ever cross paths. I surely won't mind.

There is no more to it. Period. Full-stop. Finished. El'finito'. Done. Blah-bla-bha. . .


And for those who still live in denial or lala-land, here's the 101% rationale` for 9/11... Post Gulf-War, U.S. situated troops in K.S.A.(namely the sacred holy-land of Islam) w/ the permission & under the guise of the ruling & dictatorial/authoritarian Royal Al'Saud family. Factions of radical/orthodox idealists saw this as a desecration of the most Holy Sites of Islam, to have foreign troops occupying the land (going by the inappropriate/un-Islamic conduct of soldiers known as "fahashat", as-per evidenced in the S.Korea, Philippines, Japan, Germany, and England). They were compelled to remove the troops from the 'holy land', thus the recruitment/formation/initiative towards anti-US/Western action (US Embassy bombings in Africa & U.S. Cole incident). In response, Bubba Clinton accurately identified & assessed the enemy, therefore directing cruise-missiles into assumed havens of the terrorist masterminds. Generally, innocent/uninvolved peasants & ambivalent individuals perished. Components of the cruise-missiles (namely "Tomahawks") were collected by the locals and various U.S. supplier/DOD/manufacturer embossings/identification-serials from missile-components were clearly evident. This is what galvanized the anti-American populace in that region. Elders/children perished by unmanned, cold/callous, and spineless/gutless Westerners (namely Americans). The game was now set. The playing-field/grounds was to be determined, and eventually it was: WTC.

It wasn't about Israeli occupation of Palestine, the West's liberal-decadence & seemingly atheistic-direction, nor U.S.'s Int'l hegemony over the globe, or even the West's exploitation of the region's natural resources. It was about having foreign-troops on holy-land, followed by the seemingly cowardly & 'token' act of sending missiles from afar (as-so perceived by the newly forming/coming-to-arms 'terrorists').

If you believe/think otherwise, so be it. You're wrong. You're an idiot. You're stupid. You're dumb. You're not cool.

I truly don't expect anyone to read any of the text I posted. It's to be expected, just as I don't don't ever expect anyone meaningful to offer a sincere reply/comment/idea/insight in regards to any NSX-related queries that I may have. Not only have individuals on this forum dumb'd down socio-politically, but also relative to NSX technical know-how (as far as helping/assisting those in need).

I have a grip-load more to say, but it isn't worth my time nor worth your's as no one cares. . .

 

[BD]

Again, the problem with the current generation, their selfishness has every thing to do with the current political climate.

Why fight if we don't have to.

Why should we deal with problem of others.

Why help some one at our expense.

Why stand up to nations that is cause problems around the world

What's in it for me.

The world as it is, didn't really change much in terms of individual's ambition.

Tyrants still exist. They take, they kill, and they do things that not only effects with his own people, but out side of his own fantasy world.

Most Americans take what we have for granted.

The problem is, we tolerate idiots in the name of US constitution. Those who wants to make the US a giant Europe doesn't understand the fact that the only reason Europe are still in tact is because of the US. The European Governments often go against us because of jealousy - They are no longer the shit, they have become weak, and they want us to be weak just like them. This is the same people who believes in "let's live in harmony" even if you're the source of the problems in a orderly society.

If the people of Iran don't start a new revolution, I hope we take action against their leaders. They want to bring back the old Persian empire, they want to take, and take and take, and yet we have people who want to invited their leaders over for tea.

I still can't believe some one will say "We didn't let them inspect our nuclear facility, why should Iraq let the UN inspections in?"

I honest cannot belief what I'm reading.

What is Patriotism?

When I heard our leading candidate saying shit like "Our troops are raiding and killing the people in their village of Afgan, yes, I have a huge problem with that.

Reality check any one? Why are we in Afgan, why are we in the Middle East at all? Maybe for the security of the world? Better off save the world now before it is too late.