Did Bush Lie About WMDs

[Jimbo]

You know sometimes I think I've been in a timewarp or something.

Everyone agreed Iraq had WMDs. There was no doubt or question about this. Our politicians, right and left, agreed on this. Other countries agreed too. We know Saddam used poison gas several times.

Listen to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBchVE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4mMon404pM&feature=related

Of course, then after giving Saddam every chance (over a period of 10 years I might add) to come clean - and after it was clear that Saddam would continue his game, President Bush decided to act.

Now when we went into Iraq and did not find massive quantities of WMDs, what happened? The Dems took the opportunity to demagogue and trash Bush, even though they agreed with the initial assessment. Instead of coming together and really focusing on what happened to the WMDs or why was our intelligence (and the intelligence of other countries) not precise.

So where did the WMDs go? Well, we did give Saddam more than enough time to move these materials to other countries (i.e. Syria). And its also possible that Saddam did not have the massive quantities that EVERYONE thought he did. I've heard several people suggest Saddam wanted to give Iran the impression that he had lots of WMDs in order to keep Iran at bay.

Anyway, what really makes me sick is how the Democrats took advantage of the situation in order to further their own political gain. Not one Democrat had the guts and honesty to say, look, this isn't something we should blame Bush about. You can be damn well sure Bush would have been blamed if Saddam would have used WMDs before we acted.

 

[lowellhigh79]

You know sometimes I think I've been in a timewarp or something.

Everyone agreed Iraq had WMDs. There was no doubt or question about this. Our politicians, right and left, agreed on this. Other countries agreed too. We know Saddam used poison gas several times.

Listen to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBchVE&feature=related

Of course, then after giving Saddam every chance (over a period of 10 years I might add) to come clean - and after it was clear that Saddam would continue his game, President Bush decided to act.

Now when we went into Iraq and did not find massive quantities of WMDs, what happened? The Dems took the opportunity to demagogue and trash Bush, even though they agreed with the initial assessment. Instead of coming together and really focusing on what happened to the WMDs or why was our intelligence (and the intelligence of other countries) not precise.

So where did the WMDs go? Well, we did give Saddam more than enough time to move these materials to other countries (i.e. Syria). And its also possible that Saddam did not have the massive quantities that EVERYONE thought he did. I've heard several people suggest Saddam wanted to give Iran the impression that he had lots of WMDs in order to keep Iran at bay.

Anyway, what really makes me sick is how the Democrats took advantage of the situation in order to further their own political gain. Not one Democrat had the guts and honesty to say, look, this isn't something we should blame Bush about. You can be damn well sure Bush would have been blamed if Saddam would have used WMDs before we acted.

Downing street memos.
Joe Wilson, Valerie Plame

If Saddam was as crazy and ruthless as he had been portrayed, why on earth would he move his big bad WMDs to another country? To look innocent and to embarrass the Americans? That logic is just plain dumb.

Perhaps the political pressure for more Arab blood was too much to resist after 9/11.
Perhaps the rest of Congress was given biased cherry-picked intelligence. It did stike me odd that there was a news story of how Obama, once he became the Democratic candidate and possible future president, was elevated to receive more classified military information.

And you know I just had to add this Jim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUV69LZbCNQ

Even more impressive when you consider how close to political suicide this was back in 2002. Not very "calculating" if that is the premise from which you think Obama operates from.

Regards,

Danny

 

[BD]

That is why he kept the UN inspectors out - Inspection after inspection.

Interestingly, Syria was considered as an sworn enemy of Iraq and all of a sudden, they accepted Saddam's family and offered them refuge.

He used them on the Kurds.

His sons threaten to use them if the the US invades Iraq, on national TV.


It's gone, it's not there any more. Maybe he destroyed them, maybe he shipped to another country, maybe.....

The point is, his action gave every indications that he had them.

And the second point is, the weaponry is not there any more and so what?

He even attempted to built a nuclear power plant, contracted by a French company.

We can talk about this all day long. We can also talk Obama's relationship with William Ayres, Jeremiah Write, Tony Rezco, ACRON, and the dollar amount he accepted from Fannie May, but few from the Left want to talk about it.

Let the WMD circus begin.

 

[lowellhigh79]

That is why he kept the UN inspectors out inspection after inspection.

Interestingly, Syria was considered as an sworn enemy of Iraq and all of a sudden, they accepted Saddam's family and offered them refuge.

He used them on the Kurds.

His sons threaten to use them if the the US invades Iraq, on national TV.


It's gone, it's not there any more. Maybe he destroyed them, maybe he shipped to another country, maybe.....

The point is, his action gave every indications that he had them.

And the second point is, the weaponry is not there any more.

He even attempted to built a nuclear power plant, contracted by a French company.

We can talk about this all day long. We can also talk Obama's relationship with William Ayres, Jeremiah Write, Tony Rezco, ACRON, and the dollar amount he accepted from Fannie May, but few from the Left want to talk about it.

Let the WMD circus begin.

Vance,

We have discussed those topics before.

Regards,

Danny

 

[BD]

Vance,

We have discussed those topics before.

Regards,

Danny

Sorry I missed it. I was studying for a test today, another one on wednesday.

Do you mind post the thread for me, including the post number so I don't have to spend the next three house surfing.

It's amazing how much I have missed for missing just 18 hours of Prime.

 

[Jimbo]

The point is, his action gave every indications that he had them.

Here's the analogy (admittedly simplistic) I often use...

Let's say you have some nutcase who has killed a number of people in the past. This is not in doubt.

The nutcase is holed up in building and it's evident he's armed and dangerous. No one disagrees on this.

Most everyone gives the mayor and the police chief the authority and go-ahead to take the nutcase out. Which they do.

After the smoke clears they find the nutcase's gun was a realistic fake.

Then everyone who previously gave the authorization to go ahead begins to criticize the mayor and the police chief - and accuse them of lying.

 

[Jimbo]

If Saddam was as crazy and ruthless as he had been portrayed, why on earth would he move his big bad WMDs to another country? To look innocent and to embarrass the Americans? That logic is just plain dumb.

Perhaps the political pressure for more Arab blood was too much to resist after 9/11.
Perhaps the rest of Congress was given biased cherry-picked intelligence. It did stike me odd that there was a news story of how Obama, once he became the Democratic candidate and possible future president, was elevated to receive more classified military information.

And you know I just had to add this Jim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUV69LZbCNQ

Even more impressive when you consider how close to political suicide this was back in 2002. Not very "calculating" if that is the premise from which you think Obama operates from.

Regards,

Danny

Danny,

Keep in mind that we did find some number of WMDs in Iraq. I realize we didn't find the huge quantities that everyone (Repubs and Dems alike) thought, but we did find a fair amount. As to any other larger quantities, I have no idea if Saddam moved his weapons, or the weapons are still buried somewhere. But we do know that he had at least stores of lethal gas and hundreds of munitions capable of delivering this gas.

As I said, maybe Saddam played a huge charade and made it seem that he had more than he actually did in order to keep Iran at bay - never believing that the US would actually take action. It wasn't just US intelligence that we're discussing. Do you think it's possible that Russia, the Brits were wrong too? Forget France and Germany, they had a vested interest in keeping Saddam in power. Does it really matter if Saddam actually had a huge WMD program - or just made it seem to the world that he did, when he didn't. It's like the robber using realistic fake gun...you can't take the chance, you have to take him out.

And yes, Obama was against the war. One could take this as a principled stand or one could view it as foolish inaction. In face of all the intelligence that both Republicans and Democrats agreed upon, that Saddam had WMDs, in face of all that why did Obama say no? Do you really think it was because he thought we wouldn't find anything? That seems really farfetched. Is this a preview of how Obama might act in the future? What if the intelligence is 100% the next time? I find this to be somewhat scary.

Given the climate after 9/11 and the best intelligence we had at the time, I believe we all (Both Dems and Repubs) made the right decision. But then for the Democrats to abdicate their responsibility after the fact, is just shameful. Both the administration and leading Dems and Repubs could have went to the public and said jointly that the WMDs that we all thought were there, appear not to be here, and we're working to find out why.

But, no, it was more important for the Democrats to bash Bush to be the Ultimate Monday Morning Quarterback for their own political gain.

When you repeat a lie long enough and when you have the mainstream media in your corner, many people start to believe the lie.

 

[jond]

If I remember right, the UN weapon inspectors couldn't find anything.
Yeah, I think Bush outright lied. I think he wanted to attack them for other reasons, and I think he knew WMDs didn't exist .

I'm not sure what the real motive was to attack Iraq, but one theory is they simply wanted to sucker punch a country and associate them with 'terrorist'. Imagine how scared the average mouth breather would be if they realized 7 years after we were attacked we still haven't caught the guy who did it. Most people think Iraq attacked us and we're fighting 'terrorist'. lol.

 

[heySkippy]

I think it's possible that Cheney and his pals kept Bush in the dark about Iraq no longer having WMDs. But I don't doubt for a minute that Cheney knew. I think when Colon Powell made his UN presentation, he knew also.

 

[warrenw]

The UN didn't find any WMD.
The UN vote was to not invade IRAQ.
The US did not have the rest of the world on their side. The UN actually said there wasn't a reason to invade IRAQ.

The US invaded anyway, killing thousands of people. Distroyed infrastructure that is still not rebuilt, and leaving most but not all in worst shape than before. People lost family members. People lost homes.
Now they have the promise of democracy. After all these years it is still just a promise.

Have you ever had a politician promise anything to you?

Did George Bush lie? Is he a politician?

So, who is the real terrorist here?

 

[Jimbo]

So warrenw, skippy and jond:

You're saying that all those Dems (in the videos) lied too? Wow, that's some conspiricy you got there.

By the way, regarding the UN, it wasn't that simple. the do-nothing UN had dragged their feet for years and years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UN_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_war

 

[heySkippy]

So warrenw, skippy and jond:

You're saying that all those Dems (in the videos) lied too? Wow, that's some conspiricy you got there.

Speaking only for myself here.

I'm saying just what I said and no more. I think Cheney and his boys probably knew the score well in advance. I think it's possible that they kept W in the dark because they had a LOT to gain from an invasion of Iraq, but it's possible W knew the truth as well. Certainly he had his own agenda and didn't need much encouragement to invade.

As for the Dems, I don't know and I'm not speculating. That wasn't the question.

 

[makav3li]

The UN didn't find any WMD.
The UN vote was to not invade IRAQ.
The US did not have the rest of the world on their side. The UN actually said there wasn't a reason to invade IRAQ.

what real army does the UN have? the UN also wanted every country to let them be in control of their nukes a while back. doesnt the US and UK make up most of the UN firepower?

 

[flaminio]

I don't think Bush lied about WMDs in Iraq. I think, given the information he had at the time, he said things that he believed to be true.

However, as I said at the time and as I continue to say today, even if Saddam at WMDs as Bush and Powell and the others described, I would still not support an invasion of Iraq.

 

[makav3li]

wmd=oil, yes there are plenty of wmd in iraq

 

[jond]

So warrenw, skippy and jond:

You're saying that all those Dems (in the videos) lied too? Wow, that's some conspiricy you got there.

Speaking for myself,
Without every member of congress sending in their own personal dedicated team of Navy SEALS they're going to have to trust the word of someone. They trusted the word of Bush. They had no reason to question him, he's the president!!!

I think you're implying I'm blaming republicans. I'm not. I'm blaming 1 person. (And maybe the direct people around him).
It's OBVIOUS they didn't have first hand proof. They OBVIOUSLY didn't have SEALs go in and take a picture of the WMDs. So at the VERY LEAST, Bush was incompetent. But I think it's worse, I think it was intentional.


.

 

[BD]

If I remember right, the UN weapon inspectors couldn't find anything.
Yeah, I think Bush outright lied. I think he wanted to attack them for other reasons, and I think he knew WMDs didn't exist .

Me too, I remember they said that too, after the war.

They also said "before the war that Saddam had them, Saddam refuse to let them inspect them, and Saddam was gaving them the run around.

Yes, Bush out right lied along with the CIA, British, French, German and other Intelligence agency.

Hey, maybe it was the French and Germans who helpped Saddam built he WMD. Or the Nuclear Power Plant.

and maybe that

Saddam was the WMD

 

[Jimbo]

Me too, I remember they said that too, after the war.

They also said "before the war that Saddam had them, Saddam refuse to let them inspect them, and Saddam was gaving them the run around.

Yes, Bush out right lied along with the CIA, British, French, German and other Intelligence agency.

Hey, maybe it was the French and Germans who helpped Saddam built he WMD. Or the Nuclear Power Plant.

and maybe that

Saddam was the WMD

Or maybe all those dead Kurds just died of food poisoning. Just remember the words of Michael Moore... "There is no terrorist threat...there is no terrorist threat."

 

[DrVolkl]

How many Iraqi weapons inspectors do we let into our country...just because they want to?

Would we use WMD's if Iraqi's invaded us?

I mean, Iraq was trying to stand up to us...and honestly sometimes I can't blame them.

We (the US) like to throw our weight around...honestly, there are uglier things going on in Darfur...yet for some reason we haven't invaded yet.

We assume that we have the right to run other peoples governments, to keep other countries from doing exactly what we have already done (attain nuclear power). What gives us the right?

Iraq did not attack us on 911...the high jackers were mostly Saudi's. Yet we have deep ties with the Saudi gov't.

The invasion was a crock. We needed a reason to go in...so we got one.

Unfortunately now that we're there, we need to finish it up...not leave early.

There has only been one nation to use atomic weapons on another country. That's the US.

 

[Jimbo]

Speaking only for myself here.

I'm saying just what I said and no more. I think Cheney and his boys probably knew the score well in advance. I think it's possible that they kept W in the dark because they had a LOT to gain from an invasion of Iraq, but it's possible W knew the truth as well. Certainly he had his own agenda and didn't need much encouragement to invade.

As for the Dems, I don't know and I'm not speculating. That wasn't the question.

It is the question. We've heard for years the chant, how Bush lied and people died, and it's getting stale.

If you really honestly believe that the entire administration, along with the all the Senate and Congressional committees, including leading Democrats, and other foreign intelligence entities all were hoodwinked by Bush-Cheney-Halliburton, then I think you're smokin something funny. So, not only did Bush-Cheney fabricate intelligence, they somehow managed to plant this fabricated intelligence into other countries?!

So, did Bush travel back into time and influence Bill Clinton back in 1998 too? Watch the following, Bill C is the first example...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBchVE&feature=related

Whew, I know Bush beat Gore and Kerry in very close contested elections, but sheesh, putting this entire conspiricy at the foot of Bush is just weird.

Isn't it much more likely that Saddam worked hard to hide the true nature of what he had, in order to keep Iran at bay? And that our intelligence, along with the Brits, Australian, Italian, Russian intelligence just didn't know the full scope? Wouldn't that much more readily explain why most Repubs and Dems agreed Saddam had WMDs? If Saddam had never gassed the Kurds, I'd might be more inclined to give some sliver of credence to these theories.

C'mon Bush is done. He's leaving office soon. Time to move on (no, not that MoveOn).

 

[DrVolkl]

I don't think Bush lied about WMD's either...

It goes much deeper than that....basically he was lied to by whatever branch of gov't wanted us to go into Iraq. Probably CIA bullshit. Bush probably truly believed we needed to go in there. I wouldn't put too much blame on him at all.

Lets not forget, the CIA gave Osama a TON of money in the 80's to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. He WAS on our side. (so to speak). We funded his little army.

It's funny how that hardly ever gets talked about.

Who's really to blame for 911?

 

[Jimbo]

How many Iraqi weapons inspectors do we let into our country...just because they want to?

Would we use WMD's if Iraqi's invaded us?

I mean, Iraq was trying to stand up to us...and honestly sometimes I can't blame them.

We (the US) like to throw our weight around...honestly, there are uglier things going on in Darfur...yet for some reason we haven't invaded yet.

We assume that we have the right to run other peoples governments, to keep other countries from doing exactly what we have already done (attain nuclear power). What gives us the right?

Iraq did not attack us on 911...the high jackers were mostly Saudi's. Yet we have deep ties with the Saudi gov't.

The invasion was a crock. We needed a reason to go in...so we got one.

Unfortunately now that we're there, we need to finish it up...not leave early.

There has only been one nation to use atomic weapons on another country. That's the US.

DrV,

With all due respect, we know Iraq didn't directly attack us on 9-11.

You're really missing the point. The problems with Iraq go way back to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. The second Gulf war was never a direct response to 9-11.

Sure, after 9-11 our tolerance for terrorists simply ran out. Bush said, and rightfully so that we weren't going to tolerate any more nonsense regardless. The real reasons for us going into Iraq the second time was because of the following...

1. The inability of the useless, toothless, corrupt (remember oil-for-food and the corrupt Kofi Annan) UN to get Saddam to comply with their own resolutions.

2. The intelligence (that both Dems, Repubs and other countries agreed upon) that Saddam had a WMD capability.

3. The fact that Saddam had showed a willingness to use such a capability in the past.

4. The potential that he could use such weapons again, or more likely, that he would funnel such weapons to terrorists like Al Qaida.

5. And finally, the real likelihood that other wacked countries (i.e. North Korea, Iran, etc) would see the UN's lame attempts at enforcement (after 10 years of failing) and would be emboldened by this and become more adventuresome. I mean how many times do you tell the bad guy, don't do what you're doing. At some point you have to draw a line. And then when the bad guys cross the line you have to take action.

Oh, what gives us the right to keep other countries from obtaining nuclear technology? Well, how about we start off by saying, that if a country who declares that Israel should be wiped off the map, that it's probably not a great idea that said country gets to have nukes? And we have wide backing from the rest of the world on this.

You know, it's pretty obvious where you stand when you make such comments like you can't blame Iraq and why shouldn't every other country deserve to get nukes. To say that I disagree with you is putting it mildly.

 

[warrenw]

We (the US) like to throw our weight around...honestly, there are uglier things going on in Darfur...yet for some reason we haven't invaded yet.

Darfur doesn't have oil.

 

[Jimbo]

Yeah, it's all about Oil.

If we went into Iraq for Oil, where is it?

Hell, we're still footing the bill for Iraq reconstruction and we haven't gotten drop one from Iraq.

Oh, if Nasty Big Oil is to blame for rising gas prices, now that gas is coming down in price, who's to blame for that?

You guys are actually pretty funny. Yeah, let's see...for every pro-Bush or pro-McCain (since everyone knows there SO MUCH alike) post that I make, I get 1 gallon of gas and a thank you note from Dick Cheney written on Halliburton stationery. Yeah, that's the ticket!! Buahahhahaaaa!!

 

[da3dalus]

If you're a military commander and you need tactical position to control the middle east where would you like to be positioned?

A 2nd grader could figure this one out folks.

End of discussion.