CTSC underwhelming...?

It sure sounds to me like the belt is OK if it is making 5 lbs. I am with Lud on all counts, let them handle it, and DEFINATELY have them only speak to Shad. I really would not believe Shad said, maybe the belt only, with no other suggestions.

I also agree with sjs, and I am really fond of the stock air box and filter, that the Comptech intake will give you better hp with the SC, but not to mistake that as the cause for you hp numbers.

Good Luck, I am sure it will be worked out shortly.

LarryB
 
Donwon pointed out that my dyno seems to show the HP curve kind of easing off after 6k. That combined with the AF wonkiness has me thinking that maybe I should have them replace the fuel pump while they're at it. The installer assured me that fuel delivery was to spec, but it seems to me that this is a prime candidate for the lean A/F. Larry mentioned in another thread that the stock fuel pump seems to wear out faster with the increased voltage to get it to 100psi. Should I just replace it with a walbro HP 255? Anyone else using that setup?

Question about the airbox: Does comptech's airbox design itself contribute to the better airflow, or is it largely the filter? Should I just drop in a high flow filter (eg. uniflow) or do I need to change out the airbox as well? My feeling was that the comptech airbox was mostly for show, but if it has true benefits in its design, then I'd consider going that route as well.
 
Arshad said:
, boost only kicks in at WOT, is that correct?
Click to expand...

Congratulations on your CTSC.

Definitely get it dyno tuned soon, you can probably gain 10~50rwhp just by tunning your A/F ratio, safcII or Vafc will help.

I don't have experiences with Superchargers, but on my daily driver single turbo Supra .63a/r I hit full boost at 3500rpm.

I don't get any boost during normal low speed driving, since I am not making postive boost, I can build boost on partial throttle if I want to, but if I go WOT, it will hit full boost immediately.

The airplane taking off sound is open wastegate, which sounds cool first day you have it, then you will hate it, I guarantee, loud as hell, you can say kiss goodbye to your exhuast, engine, vtec note, the sound of wastegate will over power everything, not recommended, and forget about taking any female passenger in your NSX.

why don't you get a boost gauge so you can monitor your boost anytime you wish.

Not having the Supercharger whine is disappointing, I wish CTSC have typical supercharger whine like the supercharger in the Tiburon in this video:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNTU1MTQxNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE=
 
I agree that the AFR variance not being reflected in the HP curves from run to run adds more mystery to your issue and more reason to suspect the sensor. Of course, that wuldn't explain the lack of power, but there may be multiple issues here. As for tapering of at high RPM, that's typical of the CTSC. It is geared to come on relatively fast then runs out of steam (passes peak efficiency) before you run out of engine revs. Not a bad compromise overall. I think that if you graphed the boost it would hit the 5psi level at mid RPM then drop to 4 or less by redline. In other words, not the real problem here.

You might press them for how they checked the fuel system. If they didn't watch the pressure under full boost at 6k+ RPM, then they did not test it sufficiently to declare it OK. There are just too many ways it can be bad:

Weak pump unable to supply pressure and/or volume
Faulty (new from CT) pressure regulator
Faulty (new from CT) voltage booster
Incorrect installation of one of the above mentioned new parts
Dirty fuel filter that is only a problem at high demand

And that's just the fuel system.

There is also the voltage clamp for the MAP sensor output (I forget their name but the same as the SmartMap ). If that is installed wrong, out of calibration, or not functioning properly due to interference, then it won't "lie" correctly to the ECU and you will have problems. If it put out too much voltage you would throw a code, but too little and the ECU will just never think you are at WOT or high load, and that's bad. You may not even get out of closed loop in that case, or wander in and out. (now there's an idea that sorta fits). I think they still place that near the MAP sensor rather than by the ECU, which always seemed like a bad idea with unnecessary risk.

I'm not saying that any one of these is necessarily the problem, I'm just doing what any decent tech should already have done, which is consider all the pieces involved and how one or more could account for the lack of power. If you hadn't done the baseline pulls we might be less convinced that your problem is real (without being there to observe) but you seem to have adequate evidence for your tech to be more attentive.

I don't think we asked if you had ANYTHING else done to the car at the same time as the install.
 
Thanks for the suggestions SJS. All the things done to my car:

-Installed CTSC
-Injectors + Throttle body cleaned
-Changed oil filter + oil. Used to use Castrol Syntec, switched to Redline.
-put on a new OEM shift knob
-machined front rotors
-put on a new passenger door light cover

Obviously the last 3 have nothing to do with this, but that's the full list of service that was performed ;) They also did things like check the fuel system, check for exhaust leaks etc, but those did not involve changing anything. I can't imagine switching to redline would have any negative impact, and I would think that cleaning the injectors and throttle body could only help gain back any lost performance.
 
Quick update, will post more later:

Took it back there this morning, they talked to Shad and they found that the ESM (?) was off by 1 volt. They fixed that and now the car drives more like what I was expecting! When I start the car, I can now hear the "lashing" at idle (wasn't there before), and now there is definitely more punch in 2nd gear and I can definitely hear the supercharger kicking in at 2nd, which again wasn't there before.

I don't know if I'm making the correct RWHP, but it FEELS like it's much faster. I'll be taking it to a different dyno shop on Monday where hopefully they will be able to check the A/F correctly etc.

At the moment I'm happy, but still a little worried about the AF. I won't be pushing the car until I get the dyno results on Monday.
 

The CTSC kit is designed to run a little rich to avoid any 'too lean' issues.


Agreed, but if you look at the AF on my dyno above, I'm running much leaner than the 11.8-12.2 range I should be in. I hope it is just a) their sensing equipment is wrong or b) fuel pump just needs to be replaced.

My car will be in for a dyno at a different place where they should be able to measure AF correctly. Hopefully all the numbers will in the right place.
 
I am sure you will see a significant change in your A/F ratios with the ESM adjusted. Be safe as you are until you see the dyno results.

Glad things are looking up.

Regards,
LarryB
 
donwon said:
Good stuff. Emvanderpol talked about the same thing. Hard to belive that 1 voltage ESM makes a noticable difference. Anyone know what Voltage for hi-boost kit is supposed to be? ( itried calling comptech)
Click to expand...
The NSX MAP voltage range is about 0.5 (idle, full vaccum) to 2.75V (WOT on NA NSX). 1V error is huge. The ESM clamps the voltage so that the ECU does not see boost. The clamp voltage is the same regardless of boost. The Comtech ESM is adjustable which IMHO is a disadvantage (ie. just more chances for misadjustment as proven above). Of course my opinion is biased since I designed a competing product: http://www.zublin.com/smartmap/900028.PDF
 
No to blow the own horn (OK, maybe a little), but quoting myself...

sjs said:
...There is also the voltage clamp for the MAP sensor output (I forget their name but the same as the SmartMap [ESM]). If that is installed wrong, out of calibration, or not functioning properly due to interference, then it won't "lie" correctly to the ECU and you will have problems. If it put out too much voltage you would throw a code, but too little and the ECU will just never think you are at WOT or high load, and that's bad. You may not even get out of closed loop in that case, or wander in and out. (now there's an idea that sorta fits)...
Click to expand...
:cool:
 
You hit the nail on the head sjs! The car is definitely running strong now, but I'll take it easy until the dyno on Monday. Hard to keep from mashing my foot down on the accelerator though :D
 
Be sure to reset the ECU so that the incorrect "learned" values in the ECU will be wiped out. You can reset the ECU by pulling the clock fuse or by disconnecting the battery.
 
So I have my dyno appt booked for next tuesday at a different shop as I don't really trust the first shops tailpipe A/F sniffer.

At the new place, they are going to be drilling a hole in the DC headers and inserting a sensor there. Is this how it is normally done? I would imagine that this would give a much more accurate reading than post-cat.

If the car is running rich, is it advisable to adjust the FPR setting to lean it out (in a relatively conservative manner) or should I leave it alone? My concern is that I do drive the car when it is cold (well below freezing), as long as there is no snow outside. My understanding is that the car will run much leaner in the colder air, so is tuning for 11.8-12.2 right now going to give me problems when it's colder outside?

Johnny: This is the burlington place -- did they drill a hole in your headers as well? What do you think of that shop?
 

So is your CTSC still underwhelming?


Most definitely not :D Although I'm trying to keep myself from pushing the car until I get the proper dyno done to ensure I'm not running lean. Let me tell ya, it takes a lot of self control knowing all that power is there waiting to be tapped but still holding yourself back!
 
Hey Arshad,

I had my car dynoed at DL Motorsprts in Burlington at first, but the guy never returns calls so I decided to take it to splitfire. Let me know how it goes, I may have to get the FPR adjusted alittle bit.

Johnny
 
More disappointing news. I did the dyno and it's only measuring 289rwhp. I noticed on the way home that the AC was on, which probably subtracted 10hp (?), but it's still off.

They drilled a hole at the head of the cat and put a wideband in there to check A/F, which was reading 12.3-12.5, which is better than the tailpipe sniffer was indicating, but still a bit on the lean side.

So they adjusted the fuel pressure regulator to richen up the mix (over 1 turn), but it did not impact the A/F, which seems to indicate a fuel delivery issue. (BTW, I had my fuel filter replaced just prior to taking it to the dyno). So they then tested the fuel pressure at WOT, and it was around 85psi then started wavering around 6000rpm and then rapidly fell off (of course we promptly let off the throttle). So it appears that the fuel pump is the culprit. Does that sound reasonable? What is the PSI supposed to be at WOT on a low boost CTSC setup?

I'm hoping after the fuel pump is replaced, and after they adjust the mix, I should be in the right A/F range and putting down more power to the wheels. It's just been such an ordeal.. blah.

Anyways.. my question is: What fuel pump do I replace it with? OEM pump is pretty expensive (retail is something like CDN$950)! Is a Walbro 255 HP a drop-in replacement or will I have to tinker with other things to make it work? Or should I just get a new OEM pump?
 
Aw man ......

I was hoping you were on the brink of breakthrough.

So they adjusted the fuel pressure regulator to richen up the mix (over 1 turn), but it did not impact the A/F, which seems to indicate a fuel delivery issue.
Click to expand...

This may not be true. I turned the heck out of mine (RRFPR) as well, and never saw any change in the A/F either or fuel pressure for that matter. I have an upgraded 200+ denso pump. Thats why im suprised they were able to do something about Jonny's without swapping out the spring or air bleed. It was at this point where I decided to go with the safc. I cant seem to adjust the RRFPR either by turning the screw, but I know my fuel is getting there, I just cant change it. Hang in there.
 
You really need to plot boost vs fuel pressure. The RRFPR increases pressure based strictly on boost level, and the CTSC tends to tail off above 6kRPM, therefore you should expect to see the fuel pressure do likewise. Find out from CT the ratio of the RRFPR (4:1, 6:1, whatever) then compare that to the plot of boost vs fuel pressure.

Many older OEM pumps can't handle the demand at stock voltage, but I think your CTSC also boosts voltage to something like 20vdc (compared to ~14) which helps a lot. But that can also shorten their effective life, so testing is a good idea. The Walbro is a good cost-effective choice and simmple to insall with very minimal changes as noted in the instructions.
 
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