CTSC underwhelming...?

[Arshad]

Well I got my car back finally after installing the 6lb CTSC and I have to admit I'm a bit disappointed and wondering if it was worth the $$$. I haven't really had a chance to open it up in higher gears as there was a lot of traffic on the way back home, but I didn't feel a whole lot more power in 2nd gear. Maybe my expectations were a bit high, but it didn't seem to be much different than before the CTSC, at least at lower speeds. As I got on the freeway, it did feel faster though. Maybe I just need to drive it a bit more with less traffic -- as I understand it, boost only kicks in at WOT, is that correct?

I was also expecting a more pronounced 'whine' from the supercharger all the time, but the only time I heard it was while in 3rd gear on the highway and accelerating, it sounded more like a whistling as I got into the higher RPM's. Someone in the FAQ mentioned it sounded like an airplane taking off, but mine doesn't sound like that at all. Maybe it's the sound of the exhaust drowning it out, I dunno.

BTW, the shop checked my car out thoroughly and didn't find any exhaust leak, and the fuel delivery was as expected. I'm going to take it in for a dyno in the next day or two -- maybe my butt dyno is just broken The nice thing is that the car feels just as smooth as ever... but it doesn't 'feel' as fast as a C5 or STI based on my seat of the pants dyno.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

If your dyno results confirm little gain, you need to check A/F ratio boost. Especially check the belt tension. I have a car now that slowly deteriorated in performance over several months. The SC belt slowly stretched. Once retightened the car was back to it's true SC feel. I know this seems like early to check it, but you never know and it is very easy to adjust if needed. Obviously when on the dyno FIRST thing is the A/F ratio in the 12:1 range on boost or stop and fix that immediately.

Good Luck,
LarryB

 

[Arshad]

Thanks for the advice Larry, I'm going to try and book a dyno appt tomorrow.

 

[NetViper]

Hmm.. I drove one a few weeks ago and it was very noticeable. But, it still will feel nowhere near as fast as a C5 because of the TQ. I have not driven a STI so I can't compare there.

To me, the 6lbs kit feels just like the stock motor only instead of a V6, it feels like a v8.

 

[Lud]

The system provides boost on demand, not during "easy" driving. Just cruising around at light throttle the car sounds and feels pretty much like stock by design.

The power delivery is also very linear. There is no "wow, I just felt it kick in" moment. Everything is just faster.

Get away from traffic and put your right foot to the floor all the way to 8000 RPM. If you don't hear the blower whining and feel a difference, esp. in second gear, something is wrong with your setup.

 

[whiteNSXs]

This sounds familiar. See here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23792
I was expecting tremendous low end power so I too initially was disappointed.
However, if you take it out on the highway and open it up, be prepared to scared your pants off. You WILL like the CTSC. It is a very elegantly made
machine and is worth every single penny. I enhanced the whole package with CT headers, Type-R gears and R&P, and high flow intake. It is a REALLY fast car.
Steve

 

[len3.8]

The system provides boost on demand, not during "easy" driving. Just cruising around at light throttle the car sounds and feels pretty much like stock by design.

The power delivery is also very linear. There is no "wow, I just felt it kick in" moment. Everything is just faster.

Get away from traffic and put your right foot to the floor all the way to 8000 RPM. If you don't hear the blower whining and feel a difference, esp. in second gear, something is wrong with your setup.

Ditto, and if a C5 is rolling with you, he will be behind you.

 

[MarkB]

Another thing to consider is intake/headers/exhaust. If you install a blower without upgrading these items, you are throwing away HP due to lack of breathing capacity.

 

[Arshad]

As I mentioned, I haven't really given it a chance to stretch its legs, but I should be able to do that this morning. Second gear is what annoyed me the most about the NA NSX, and down low is where I was hoping to see the biggest change based on other people's CTSC dyno's + personal accounts. I need to give it a proper test and then I'll report back.

(Yes, I know I really need to get the short gears to make this a lot more enjoyable at the low end!)

BTW, I do have DC headers and Tubi exhaust in place, but I kept the stock airbox and filter. I read in several places that going with a high flow filter doesn't make a difference on the dyno, and it has the added maintenance in addition to the higher potential of damaging your engine since it can allow larger particles to get in. I'd like to stick with the stock filter unless people think that's a potential bottleneck for my setup.

 

[matteni]

In reality - the thread might have been - the stock NSX engine right out of the box is "overwhelming"



J/K - enjoy your supercharger. I wanted one bad until I figured out I can barely use the power I have. Also - I went the other route and did used DC Sports headers, exhaust, Dali hot chip, removed a bunch of stuff, and the 91 Type R gearset. For probably the same money I could have had the supercharger put in but am happy with the setup I have and I barely have time to maintain the stuff I have let alone the extra stuff (albiet small) with the supercharger oil, belt, etc.

I have driven one and it is fun - good luck

 

[jadkar]

Are you guys refering to a C5 corvette?? Strange, I've been up against a few and usually I find myself only 1/2 - 1 car length behind all the way through 3rd gear. I would assume with a CTSC I would easily leave it in the dust.

Is this on a 3.0 NSX, maybe that's why a C5 is more of a challenge??

 

[Arshad]

Ok I am really annoyed. Dyno confirms what I was feeling. Two runs 283hp, 216 Tq. Apparently the guy was doing 4th gear runs (which is what he did before pre-ctsc, when I got 251hp/195tq). 3rd gear run yielded 291hp, 216tq.

What could be the problem?

BTW, the A/F is also totally whacked. It's above 13 for most of the run. They claim to have their unit repaired and calibrated last week, but I don't trust it.

Thoughts? I was expecting closer to 320-325rwhp.

 

[matteni]

Maybe you could post your dyno sheet? Who did your install and what are they saying about your satisfaction level? Have you contacted CompTech for advice?

Not meant as a flame but these would be my next steps. Also - if you don't trust the dyno shop never let them dyno your car. An irresponsible or ignorant operator can ruin your engine during a single run. Find someone you trust and has a good rep in your area IMO.

 

[KGP]

Thoughts? I was expecting closer to 320-325rwhp.

Have you considered talking to Devin to see if he can take care of your problems? He's not all that far from you, right?

 

[NetViper]

Was you 251 on the same dyno as your 283? Those results are not what you should be getting. I would agree with you on the 320ish.

Hope you get it worked out soon!

 

[Arshad]

I'll post the dyno results as soon as I can scan it in.

The 251 was indeed on the same dyno, in the same gear with the only difference being the CTSC. They were performed about 5-6 days apart under similar weather conditions.

It was installed at an Acura dealership by a comptech certified technician. I've expressed my concerns to them and they will be getting back to me. Their only comment was about me using the stock airbox. Based on what I've read so far, changing to a high flow filter does not have any significant impact.

I haven't called comptech yet or taken the car back to the dealership. The install itself looks clean, the tension on the belt seems good (confirmed by the dyno technician as well).

Everything I've read and seen from others dyno configs with similar setups indicate that I should be expecting ~320rwhp. To say that I'm disappointed with the results is an understatement, but I'm hoping that there's a simple answer. If the dealership/comptech cannot resolve the problem, I'll consider driving it down to Devin, but that would be a last resort for me.

BTW, I also had the injectors and throttle body cleaned during the install, and they checked fuel pressure to confirm that it was to spec.

 

[NetViper]

There is NO WAY you should only pick up 30RWHP from a CTSC. That is insane. Something is way wrong. I am with you on the intake too. From all I have read here it sounds like their intake is for SHOW, not GO.

 

[NetViper]

Dyno from the other thread.

 

[Lud]

Yes there is clearly something wrong. If you are not hearing the supercharger whine a lot when you give it full throttle, I really question whether your belt is indeed tensioned correctly. But we could sit here guessing all day - I think the best thing is to bring the car back to the dealer and have the tech who installed it call Shad @ Comptech, then have them troubleshoot it together. Shad is simply fantastic and I'm sure he can help your tech get everything sorted out. There is no reason the customer should have to troubleshoot their newly installed supercharger.

The airbox comment from the dealer is ridiculous. I run a stock airbox with mine and have great performance.

Good luck and I am sure you will be much happier once this problem is resolved!

 

[Mark911]

If it's not belt tension or A/F ratio, I would suspect the technician incorrectly installed the bypass valve. Is so, your boost could be simply bleeding back into the intake. I'd do a WOT boost check (assuming your A/F is in a safe range) to check it.

 

[Arshad]

At the dyno place, they measured peak 5lb boost at WOT, which I think is inline with expectations. I did call Comptech, and the only thing the guy could think of was belt tension.

 

[NSX2NV]

Arshad,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I to went through the same problems with Acura Woodbine. After the install the car dynoed at 309whp, to say I was pissed is an understatment. When I went back to Acura the then Service manager (Mike) actually said those are great #'s you should be very happy (Let's just say I told him where to stick the blower). After a day or two I got a check engine light. It ended up being a lazy O2 sensor. After that was replaced the car dynoed at 330Whp. I then took it to Splitfire and adjusted the A/F and the car dynoed 353Whp. (But I'm runninng the high boost kit) Definetly go back to Acura and insist they have Shad talk to Alan, to see if the above suggestions are correctly adjusted. The #'s posted by Netviper look in line with the other 3.0 litre CTSC install Alan has done. Ask Paul (Parts) to see the other dynoes they have.

Hopefully everything gets resolved quickly.

Johnny

 

[Lud]

At the dyno place, they measured peak 5lb boost at WOT, which I think is inline with expectations. I did call Comptech, and the only thing the guy could think of was belt tension.

You will simply end up frustrated if you try to be the middle-man in this process. Drop the car off and have your technician talk to Shad. Make sure he talks to Shad, not just whoever answers the phone.

 

[sjs]

Keep after them, there must be more available. Very good that you did the pre-install runs for a baseline.

BTW, I'm typically the first to say that replacing the air box/filter is a waste of money on a stock engine, but not necessarily so on a boosted one. The OEM unit it sized and designed to be adequate on a stock engine, it would have been just plain stupid not to, but you are now moving at least 30% more CFM through it so less restriction may be called for. That's NOT where your big loss is and I'm not suggesting it's even worth doing, but there is a difference between your engine and those tested with other filters.

 

[Arshad]

Here's the dyno from this morning. The only thing is I forgot to ask him for SAE corrected, so these are STD results with an adjustment factor of 1.05. (Temp 83.80F, 29.22 in-Hg). My previous chart was an SAE corrected chart.

Run 7 and 8 are 4th gear pulls (as was my pre-install dyno). Run 9 is when I asked him to pull in 3rd gear (I have a stock 5 speed transmission).

blue - run 7, green - run 8, red - run 9

A few questions:

1) Should there have been that much of a gain in the 3rd gear pull vs 4th gear?

2) Where should the fan be positioned relative to the car? Does it need a constant stream of air coming into the intake in order to dyno accurately? In both cases (pre-ctsc and post-ctsc), they had the fan behind and to the left of the engine bay, blowing across the engine where the airbox is. Should it have been pointing towards the driver side vent instead? In any case, that variable remained constant in my pre and post dyno.

3) What the hell is going on with my AF?! I've been driving my car very cautiously, and not pushing it at all to avoid giving it any boost, but I have this feeling that their numbers are just plain wrong. The installer did test fuel delivery and said it was fine. I know that being too rich can rob power, but can being too lean also have the same effect, since it's not at the optimum mixture?

4) The fact that AF is all over the place around 6200-7500 on the 3 runs without impacting HP/TQ curves -- is this indicative of a reading issue on the sensor? If it were the true values, wouldn't it be reflected in the hp/tq, or is it too minor to see given the scale?

Johnny: I had a long talk with Paul in parts, and he's willing to work with me. The other parts guy had a look at my belt (Allan, the tech had already left for the day), and said tension looked fine (not sure if he knows what he's talking about or not). I'm bringing my car in tomorrow to have Allan look at the belt and the bypass valve and I told him that I'd like Allan to call Shad directly to try and troubleshoot this.

There's no way I'm going to drop this. I told him I was not happy with the numbers. I felt like they were trying to convince me that my numbers were not that far off where they should be and that some minor adjustments were all that is necessary. I personally feel that I should be seeing another 35-40 hp and that there's some other bigger issue at play here. The numbers he quoted me for the other installs also seemed low compared to the numbers I've seen everywhere else, so I dunno what the heck is going on.

Your car in particular, I don't understand how it could be so much off. Sure, you got your power back, but that was after adjusting the FPR, presumably to lean it out. The point is that it should have been at around 350 for a 3.2l w/ high boost WITHOUT any FPR adjustments. I dunno what to think, but I hope they figure it out tomorrow.

sjs: Thanks for the input. I may go ahead and put in a uni-flow filter, but I'll do that AFTER they isolate the root cause of this issue. I don't want that to be an excuse not to extract the proper HP from the setup as it is now.