CTSC or N20

[nathan]

What a dilema I am in. I recently purchased a CTSC, and I am awaiting for it to arrive. While I am waiting, I am starting to wonder if this is the right decision. My previous car was a modified Evo, and I loved its 0 to 80 acceleration. My NSX is a bit slow from 0 to 80 (exhaust and headers going on this weekend).

So, I started to think, maybe I should just get N20 and use it when I am running around on the weekends. Then again, that requires filling the bottle up and having to worry about maintaing perfect conditions for the N20 to be safe. Whereas the CTSC is almost a plug n play application, so long as I stick with the stock pulley.

Basically, I am just wondering if I should sell the CTSC and use the difference in money towards something else. I do drive my NSX alot (daily driver), and I do frequently get on it around town. SO, I think the CTSC is for me. But, I am now trying to justify the cost

What do you guys think?

Any and all comments/opinions/observations welcome.
Thanks,
Nathan

 

[OneRedNSX]

Basically, I am just wondering if I should sell the CTSC and use the difference in money towards something else.

you mean like a nice winter beater car?

if you just want the occasional blast and are driving it around town, id probably just grab a bottle... you can't possibly need a CTSC'd nsx around town every day... if you only get on it hard infrequently, why not save the MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS and just put it on the bottle when you really need it.

 

[nsxsupra]

Sell the CTSC and go for the nitrous if you can't justify the cost or just get a used BBSC at a big saving. The Nitrous is cheap and will give you those occassional speed boost when you need it. Refilling bottle cost approximately $40 a pop ($3~$5 per lbs).

I can tell you one thing for sure, the CTSC is far........ more than just for those occassional fun runs. You can have fun in low rpms. The engine feel like a V8, instant torque whenever, where ever you want. Once you have it, you never want to do without at least for NA1s, since NA1 have less engine torque and taller gearing than NA2s.

CTSC doesn't have the max power potential of centrifugal type of SC, assuming you built the motor to handle more than 420rwhp for the centrifugal. If you are going to built the motor, might just as well go turbo, more torque, more hp.

The area under cruve of CTSC destroy the centrifugal type of SC. Compare the low boost CTSC dyno graph below with the new Dali stage 1 Boostzilla SC on 3.0L. You be shocked.

The lowend is what get you those 1.7~1.9sec 60ft times. The centrifugal type of SC can get you 400+rwhp easily, however I wouldn't run more than 420rwhp without a built motor. The CTSC highboost+aem can get you 400rwhp as well.

This is the power curve of stock vs low boost CTSC:

Torque graph of 3.0L NA1 with Boostzilla Supercharger:

 

[mackash]

Which power adder will "HIT" harder the CTSC or a 75-100 shot in the 1/4 mile?

 

[ediddynsx]

Jasons CTSC is very quick and reliable....I would take a CTSC over NOS any day.....but I wouldn't mind having both either.

 

[SaberX]

I'd say stick with the CTSC (esp. since you already bought it), its proven and reliable and backed by Comptech:biggrin: . The new one makes even better power than before. Also, I've been told that a CTSC puts less overall stress on the motor(than NOS) and is great if you ever decide to track your car...since NOS isn't usually allowed on a road course. Finally and perhaps the most compelling reason financially is that CTSCs hold their value very well - so even if you don't like it or need to get some cash back. You won't have any trouble selling it.

 

[nathan]

I'd say stick with the CTSC (esp. since you already bought it), its proven and reliable and backed by Comptech:biggrin: . The new one makes even better power than before. Also, I've been told that a CTSC puts less overall stress on the motor(than NOS) and is great if you ever decide to track your car...since NOS isn't usually allowed on a road course. Finally and perhaps the most compelling reason financially is that CTSCs hold their value very well - so even if you don't like it or need to get some cash back. You won't have any trouble selling it.

Reliability is definitely and issue. If a CTSC is consistently more reliable than an average shot of N20, then I will consider holding it. Plus, if the resale value is like you say it is, I can always take it off, sell it, and good money back. it will be arriving in the next couple weeks. My headers and exhaust go on in the next week. So we will see.

Thanks for the insights on both sides gang. It really helps.

Just to let everyone know, money is really the big issue, but rather overall happiness per dollar ratio

I will let everybody what happens.
Regards,
Nathan

 

[OneRedNSX]

Finally and perhaps the most compelling reason financially is that CTSCs hold their value very well - so even if you don't like it or need to get some cash back. You won't have any trouble selling it.

just to play devils advocate; a nitrous system would do the same thing but would allow you to resell it to almost ANYBODY that wanted to run a nitrous setup... selling a CTSC and you have to sell it to only NSX owners...

 

[nsxsupra]

a nitrous system would do the same thing but would allow you to resell it to almost ANYBODY that wanted to run a nitrous setup... selling a CTSC and you have to sell it to only NSX owners...

You can resell the nitrous kit to anybody and you will face competition from lage # of other sellers as there are huge supply of nitrous kits on other car fourms. You be lucky to get half the money back. Been there done that:frown:. Supply far out weights demand in this case.

I sold a Zex wet 70shot nitrous kit, bottle opener, bottle heater, gauge. I listed on Supra forums and My350Zforums for $450 for everything, no body want it. Took 3 months, and finally sold the package to a 350Z owner in Irvine at $350. My old for sale post is probably still there on my350zforums.

 

[Elite]

Which power adder will "HIT" harder the CTSC or a 75-100 shot in the 1/4 mile?

Nitrous will give a larger powerband, whatever shot you choose, it'll be that much more above the stock power curve from whenever it triggers until redline.

However I'd run the smallest shot possible on top of the ctsc, but thats just me.:biggrin: Although, I guess thats not the best advice on the expense side of things, as you'd probably have to upgrade your fuel pump, and would be best if all was controlled with an AEM EMS(or similar).

For ease of use, and if it's not too much of a strain on the pocketbook, the ctsc is probably the best of your choices for daily use.

 

[jmp]

Suggestion: Find someone willing to let you drive a CTSC'd NSX and I think you will be convinced. It gives the car the one element that was always missing from this enormously balanced platform -- more power with a nice evenly progressive powercurve.

The CTSC is more then just a muscle car add-on like NO2. In my view it helps the car achieve its potential while maintaining day to day driveability.

Mine is a daily driver CTSC (although still ironing out kinks which I think I have solved), and on balance there is no better car ever made then a CTSC'd NSX. Just my 2 cents.

 

[scorp965]

Nathan,

After you install the unit, I am sure it will be far easier to justify the expense

As you mentioned, you drive your nsx a lot - would you rather have a decent chunk of additional power everytime you drive your nsx, or an occasional burst of additional power, and the hassle and expense of refilling your n2o bottle every few weeks?

 

[Stick-e-rice]

This must be a first. A person who has CTSC on the way and backing out. I would be more eager to install it.

 

[Gaymond]

I would not consider the CTSC to have a good resale value unless you did the install yourself and only wanted the most basic setup. It took me a few years to feel comfortable spending the $ to buy the CTSC but the entire cost is more than double the basic buy in if you have to update other parts of the car (new fuel pump, injectors, aem, tuning, cf engine cover to show it off, etc) to get the most out of the system. The car made enough HP to smoke the oem clutch so another ~$3k for a RPS installed. I believe I am into the CTSC close to $18-20k but am very happy with the results (only had the car back about a week). Selling the ctsc would only recover a small fraction of the actual cost of the car so now I am forced to keep this car forever and continue to upgrade (cf seats hopefully soon ;-) it with weight reduction parts.

What I thought would be a $10k-12k upgrade is over $30k (the car needed new paint) this year and I'm thinking I could easily sink another $20k for other items I want (BBK, HRE's, short gears, CF parts) if I didn't have other cars I need to take care of.

 

[nathan]

Given the linear powerband, I would not imagine that a new clutch would be in order. The power does not kick in all at once. Can the stock clutch not handle it?

With the standard 6lb kit, I didnt think that the AEM was necessary. Also, I do believe that the stock injectors are more than capable. A fuel pump is only about 90 bucks, so that is no biggie. I could really care less about an engine cover showing it off. I would rather hide it

Let me know what the rest of you CTSC guys think about the clutch issue.
I wont exactly be launching my car alot. I am not into doing launches on the street, and I practically never take it to a drag strip.

Thanks,
Nathan

I would not consider the CTSC to have a good resale value unless you did the install yourself and only wanted the most basic setup. It took me a few years to feel comfortable spending the $ to buy the CTSC but the entire cost is more than double the basic buy in if you have to update other parts of the car (new fuel pump, injectors, aem, tuning, cf engine cover to show it off, etc) to get the most out of the system. The car made enough HP to smoke the oem clutch so another ~$3k for a RPS installed. I believe I am into the CTSC close to $18-20k but am very happy with the results (only had the car back about a week). Selling the ctsc would only recover a small fraction of the actual cost of the car so now I am forced to keep this car forever and continue to upgrade (cf seats hopefully soon ;-) it with weight reduction parts.

What I thought would be a $10k-12k upgrade is over $30k (the car needed new paint) this year and I'm thinking I could easily sink another $20k for other items I want (BBK, HRE's, short gears, CF parts) if I didn't have other cars I need to take care of.

 

[Gaymond]

I didn't have a choice as the clutch was destroyed when Autowave was dyno tuning the CTSC. I figured if I was spending $10-11k for ~75HP (just a guess) that another $4-5k to gain an additional 40-50 hp additional power (but safely) was money well spent. The way it was explained to me was that the Comptech setup was adequate to keep costs down but making addtional power with the AEM, proper tuning, and upgraded parts was safer than just making less power and using the Comptech setup.

 

[Elite]

A stock clutch can handle the power a ctsc makes without an issue. If the clutch is old and on it's way out, it'll die quicker with the added power, but that goes without saying.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'll tell you one thing... if I was in the market for a used NSX and saw a clean one with a CTSC, I'd pay extra. If I saw that it had been bottle fed, I'd run like the wind.

That reaction may or may not be justified, but I am sure I am not the only one that would feel this way.

So think about that too.

 

[SaberX]

I'll tell you one thing... if I was in the market for a used NSX and saw a clean one with a CTSC, I'd pay extra. If I saw that it had been bottle fed, I'd run like the wind.

That reaction may or may not be justified, but I am sure I am not the only one that would feel this way.

So think about that too.

I'd second that.

 

[OneRedNSX]

I'll tell you one thing... if I was in the market for a used NSX and saw a clean one with a CTSC, I'd pay extra. If I saw that it had been bottle fed, I'd run like the wind.

That reaction may or may not be justified, but I am sure I am not the only one that would feel this way.

So think about that too.

i'd be just as scared of a CTSC in the wrong hands as nitrous or any other significant power adder in the wrong hands... its all in the tuning; a jacked up CTSC tune is just as much to be afraid of as an untuned nitrous system...

(disclaimer: i'm all for the CTSC, just don't like to see onesided arguments when somebody is on the fence...)

 

[BadCarma]

I'll tell you one thing... if I was in the market for a used NSX and saw a clean one with a CTSC, I'd pay extra. If I saw that it had been bottle fed, I'd run like the wind.

That reaction may or may not be justified, but I am sure I am not the only one that would feel this way.

So think about that too.

Turbo, please explain WHY you think that n20 is so bad you would run like the wind from a car with it as I would like some of your insight. I see that you also further indicate in your post that your reaction may or may not have merit,if so and you have no concrete understanding of n20 as far as tuning a system with it WHY post at all about it and further spread the (word of doom) pertaining to cars with it and I speak of NSX'S as that is the car that is being discussed.
Are you aware of anyone with a blown motor on their nsx from n20? supercharger? turbo?
I dont want to start a flame war on this matter so PLEASE dont take this as confrontational but this thread reminds me of the lopesided reporting about our two main partys of goverment.most of you ,NOT all are all very bias and I bet many of you have never been in a nsx with n20 on it.I also know several of you have a good deal of info and have used it but perhaps not on the nsx.
IMHO I believe I could run and tune any of the supercharger,turbo or n20 systems on my car and not have a problem.of course I would use common sense in how much power I would tune for as it would be conservative with all the setups so what gives with the n20 black eye?
BTW I am selling my nsx that had n20 on it in the marketplace. I fully disclosed the fact but after reading this post I dont feel real great about it selling with people slamming n20 cars (run away) when you dont even have the facts,this is not about my car I would as many of you are aware responded in the same manner car for sale or not.
For those of you that are not chicken little I intend to post all of my nsx n20 diagrams and setup ,tuning info to the forum when I feel up to the task as I am very sick I am going to miss our discussions and the level of class this forum has over most by far. I am selling the car because not to beat around the bush I am dying.hey we all will so give up them smokes! and as for this forum please research your facts before posting negative data or positions you dont know why you take. I have never damaged a motor on a NSX with n20 but I use many safety devices
n20 can be made very safe,I know because I did it.

best regards david

PS I will miss ALL you guys whatever your position on tuning,like I said before best forum and best guys on the net forums period!

 

[nsxsupra]

Turbo, please explain WHY you think that n20 is so bad you would run like the wind from a car

David,

Get well soon man. No need to stress over this topic.

I am not interested in flame war either. The general impression people have on nitrous is that it is dangerous. Can't force people to think otherwise.

While nitrous can be very safe if set up correctly. The entry price is so low that not everyone will set it up correctly. It is not cheap to do it right either. Additional options cost money too, running a progressive set up, adding additional safety items, perfessional installation, etc.

If I am a perspective buyer, I would avoid nitrous feed vehicles as well, unless I have no choice, in that case, I will request leak down test in additional to PPI.

My supra saw plenty of shots prior of going single, never ever a problem on the 100k mile+ motor, safety was never an issue for me as I know I had it properly installed. It does have much stronger motor. Running nitous was by no mean practical for me, when the remote bottle opener failed to open the bottle for me when I need it, I dumped the kit. Cranking up the boost gave me a lot more fun.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I'm not sure if anyone brought this up yet, but...

With a CTSC, you can get that CARB legal. For me that would be worth it all alone. If a cop starts poking his nose around in your car your NOS bottle might as well look like this:

 

[BadCarma]

I'm not sure if anyone brought this up yet, but...

With a CTSC, you can get that CARB legal. For me that would be worth it all alone. If a cop starts poking his nose around in your car your NOS bottle might as well look like this:

vega$, I dont know what states are hard on n20,out in nevada (I assume you are there from your handle) I never had a problem with n20 on my car. I would tote bottles to the fill joint to get more giggle gas in a car that you just knew it had a bad ass system and cops never messed with me once.I miss nevada.
down here in florida I have never been cited for n20 and ALL the cops were aware I ran it on my x.
I do understand that modded cars in cali are always getting messed with for even a cone air filter.speaking of cali thanks bro for your pm,it meant alot to me(you know who you are. anyway I think its how you run it as to who gets messed with for any car mods and the cops down here target the kids.I dont get a second look from them in my x. BTW I make a stealth setup that they just would not find on the nsx.

I thought this thread was about saving money for nathan not slam n20, nathan you can save alot of money with a n20 system custom made for the nsx. I am posting setup diagrams,parts list and designs for dry,wet,hybrid and direct port when I feel up to it.jeez just keep fanning the fire guys and I will never be able to sell my car. if you have not run a proper tuned n20 sytem on an NSX your position and points are mute.
I shoud not hope for much as the anti n20 folks opinions by a large margin are based in second hand info and the cars that go bang are for the most part installed by kids and often they are scrounged parts. I would say the safety record for n20 on an NSX is the highest reliable non n/a system to be had. their I spoke my peace and will not get my feathers ruffled.Like nsx supra stated I need to be concerned with sqeezing a few more months out of my life and not this.

Peace Bro's

P.S. Vega$, your post of the siren, it was very dramatic, but was that necessary ?

 

[Vega$ NSX]

vega$, I dont know what states are hard on n20,out in nevada (I assume you are there from your handle) I never had a problem with n20 on my car. I would tote bottles to the fill joint to get more giggle gas in a car that you just knew it had a bad ass system and cops never messed with me once.I miss nevada.
down here in florida I have never been cited for n20 and ALL the cops were aware I ran it on my x.
I do understand that modded cars in cali are always getting messed with for even a cone air filter.speaking of cali thanks bro for your pm,it meant alot to me(you know who you are. anyway I think its how you run it as to who gets messed with for any car mods and the cops down here target the kids.I dont get a second look from them in my x. BTW I make a stealth setup that they just would not find on the nsx.

I thought this thread was about saving money for nathan not slam n20, nathan you can save alot of money with a n20 system custom made for the nsx. I am posting setup diagrams,parts list and designs for dry,wet,hybrid and direct port when I feel up to it.jeez just keep fanning the fire guys and I will never be able to sell my car. if you have not run a proper tuned n20 sytem on an NSX your position and points are mute.
I shoud not hope for much as the anti n20 folks opinions by a large margin are based in second hand info and the cars that go bang are for the most part installed by kids and often they are scrounged parts. I would say the safety record for n20 on an NSX is the highest reliable non n/a system to be had. their I spoke my peace and will not get my feathers ruffled.Like nsx supra stated I need to be concerned with sqeezing a few more months out of my life and not this.

Peace Bro's

P.S. Vega$, your post of the siren, it was very dramatic, but was that necessary ?

I'm not knocking NOS. I never said if it would be more of a legal problem or if you will be more likely to be ticketed or not. That's all speculation. All I'm pointing out is a simple fact that a CTSC can be made street legal, whereas that is not always the case with NOS. I would think that is an important deciding factor on choosing which system to go.

As for the siren. Was it necessary? No. Was it funny? Yup. :biggrin: