I e-mailed Comptech on this and got no reply. Does anyone know what their take is on the larger injector/high boost AEM upgrade? Is this something they are OK with or something they do not like? I wonder if they are working on anything themselves to go the next step with the NSX SC kit?
Comptech on AEM..
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
Comptech has never really supported the 9lbs kit. I think it is a "use at your own risk" situation.
From what I have seem, stick with 6lbs (which is now 7.2 peak) and tune it with an AEM.
From what I have seem, stick with 6lbs (which is now 7.2 peak) and tune it with an AEM.
NetViper said:
Will larger injectors then be necessary? Dynomike is getting 375 or so just with a tuned system, standard boost. Reliability is critical for me... perhaps this is the best route to go.. I still hate losing all the check engine light functionality... I mean what happens when something breaks? you will never know if a sensor is acting up...
Listen to Dynomike. He did my car a couple of years ago and the tune was absolutely the best. I had the high boost, AEM, 550 injectors and the Wallbro fuel pump. I had a perfectly flat AFR and no problems at all. I like my set up because the power was great and it was very safe. Call Mike with your questions at Autowave.
Rod
Rod
TURBO2GO said:
To be honest, I would get the 6lbs comptech set-up and leave it alone. The AEM is a lot of work and comptech knows what they are doing.
Reliability is more important than 20HP IMO.
I have found that there is more reliability in going with an AEM system that is properly tuned then what comptech has come up with for fuel managament. The reason why more horsepower is being produced is that the tuning is dead on for that combination(the motor now knows that it has a supercharger on it). What I found on the dyno with the new Autorotor unit is that there are detonation problems with it. Thew only cure to rid the car of detonation is to be sure that the car is fully heat soked before getting on it. If the blower is not hot to the touch the factory computer will not pull enough ignition timing out of the motor.
This can be a problem for people in colder climates because the intake air temp sensor may not get hot enough to pull the proper amount of ignition timing. Because more horse power is being produced has nothing to do with less reliability of the engine. Becasue the power is being produced in just tuning that means the engine is getting the proper amount of fuel and ignition timing. Now if I were to up the boost by say another 10psi and made another 100hp then yeah we would be getting to a reliability factor.
Allways remember this, the factory computer was tuned by honda to run a stock NATURALLY ASPERATED ENGINE, NOT A BOOSTED ENGINE. With a properly tuned AEM that engine now knows that it is boosted and will perform with ahhh :wink:
This can be a problem for people in colder climates because the intake air temp sensor may not get hot enough to pull the proper amount of ignition timing. Because more horse power is being produced has nothing to do with less reliability of the engine. Becasue the power is being produced in just tuning that means the engine is getting the proper amount of fuel and ignition timing. Now if I were to up the boost by say another 10psi and made another 100hp then yeah we would be getting to a reliability factor.
Allways remember this, the factory computer was tuned by honda to run a stock NATURALLY ASPERATED ENGINE, NOT A BOOSTED ENGINE. With a properly tuned AEM that engine now knows that it is boosted and will perform with ahhh :wink:
I agree with dynomike. I have had my car on high boost with almost 2k miles on the clock with the new Autorotor unit and everything runs fabulous. In fact, I feel it is definitely more responsive than stock.
OK Dynomike, I am going to play devil's advocate and ask some tough questions here. Of you, because you seem to be the AEM expert here... I am not trying to give you a hard time and appreciate the things you do.
1) The points you have made about detonation. I read here and someone at Comptech told me were early problems that have since been solved. Do you feel this is not the case?
2) I agree that proper A/F and ignition is of paramount importance on an engine. So much so that I am very wary of anyone messing with what the factory did after a lot of engineering. Not that I don't think it can be done, but I have a hard time trusting someone handling this critical part in the aftermarket. I had a lot of HKS Fcons and stuff and they to me, were never that good. Never as good as factory. AEM may be a whole world better, but I wonder how good it really can be. Can it take into account all the criteria that a factory ECU does? Is it as intelligent as the factory ECU?
3) The guys at Comptech are really experienced, right? Why do they not offer engine management of their own? If this system is not fully effecient, why not fix it with another stage II upgrade?
4) this car is designed to handle around 250 RWHP reliably for a long time. What happens to the stress levels at 400? Thats quite a bit more. I agree with proper management the engine is breathing better. Its healthier... but certainly the internals are more stressed, no?
5) What happens when losing all this sensor information? Isn't it critical to know when a sensor is acting up in the motor? What if a TPS is marginal for example? One thing that worries me is that I have a 2005 car and I will never be able to walk into a dealer and say "check engine light", have them check the code, and fix what is wrong under warranty.
6) Last, I worry about the reliability of the AEM EMS itself. Honda has been around a while and knows a thing or two about making something reliable. Will the AEM hold up to all the abuse, all the voltage fluctuations that can occur?
7) If I told you I am not out for all out power, but more a well tuned motor, would you still recommend the injector/fuel pump/pulley upgrade?
1) The points you have made about detonation. I read here and someone at Comptech told me were early problems that have since been solved. Do you feel this is not the case?
2) I agree that proper A/F and ignition is of paramount importance on an engine. So much so that I am very wary of anyone messing with what the factory did after a lot of engineering. Not that I don't think it can be done, but I have a hard time trusting someone handling this critical part in the aftermarket. I had a lot of HKS Fcons and stuff and they to me, were never that good. Never as good as factory. AEM may be a whole world better, but I wonder how good it really can be. Can it take into account all the criteria that a factory ECU does? Is it as intelligent as the factory ECU?
3) The guys at Comptech are really experienced, right? Why do they not offer engine management of their own? If this system is not fully effecient, why not fix it with another stage II upgrade?
4) this car is designed to handle around 250 RWHP reliably for a long time. What happens to the stress levels at 400? Thats quite a bit more. I agree with proper management the engine is breathing better. Its healthier... but certainly the internals are more stressed, no?
5) What happens when losing all this sensor information? Isn't it critical to know when a sensor is acting up in the motor? What if a TPS is marginal for example? One thing that worries me is that I have a 2005 car and I will never be able to walk into a dealer and say "check engine light", have them check the code, and fix what is wrong under warranty.
6) Last, I worry about the reliability of the AEM EMS itself. Honda has been around a while and knows a thing or two about making something reliable. Will the AEM hold up to all the abuse, all the voltage fluctuations that can occur?
7) If I told you I am not out for all out power, but more a well tuned motor, would you still recommend the injector/fuel pump/pulley upgrade?
check in the next post for response
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May I suggest that if anyone has questions on the Comptech S/C that you might want to call Comptech and ask for Shad. He is very knowledgeable and helpful .
I'm in the northeast, have a new Autorotor Comptech S/C package and have experienced no detonation problems, even on days where the temp was in the mid thirties.
I do have a question for Mike on the AEM when used with the new Comptech S/C package in OBDII cars (1995 up).
Will it pass emissions in NY and California? Here in NY they plug the car in and read the data right from the OBDII connector. Will this fly?
I'm in the northeast, have a new Autorotor Comptech S/C package and have experienced no detonation problems, even on days where the temp was in the mid thirties.
I do have a question for Mike on the AEM when used with the new Comptech S/C package in OBDII cars (1995 up).
Will it pass emissions in NY and California? Here in NY they plug the car in and read the data right from the OBDII connector. Will this fly?
There were early problems that were even more severe then what are now. From what I have found the cars still do detonate until the supercharger hot till the touch. In the factory computer as the intake air temperature going into the motor gets hotter the ignition timing is retarded thus eliminating the detonation from running to much ignition timing
This is true factory Honda did spend thousands of hours tuning that stock computer. But they tuned it for a stock engine not a stock engine with a supercharger. When you boost an engine, ignition timing has to be retarded for the increased horsepower and more fuel has to be added to compensate for more air going into the engine. By all means the AEM unit is not as sophisticated as the factory ecu for the sole fact Honda is a multi billion dollar company where AEM is only maybe a couple of million. The AEM ecu along with others is only as good as the person who is tuning it.
Comptech makes these supercharger setups to be smog legal. All of there products are made around this. Eliminating the stock computer would no longer make it smog legal.
The internals are definitely under more stress. I believe the stock nsx engine can make in the neighborhood of around 400whp safely. I base this on one of are racecars that we do. The Pulp Racing NSX has over 100hrs of strait track time on a stock bottom with a CTSC and an AEM system car still is running strong. Last time we dynoed the car made 435whp
This is one thing you will have to except when going with an aftermarket computer. But if a sensor were to go out you would notice the car not running properly right of the bat. You can always plug you lap top into the AEM and monitor all the sensors. AEM also has their new serial gauge that will tell you what every sensor on the engine is doing. Water temp, boost, tps and so on
Over the years I have had nothing but success with the AEM EMS
[/QUOTE]
When going to an AEM system these are all the proper things you will need to make the system work properly. You do not have to change the pulley on the supercharger if you do not want the extra power. I always put in an aftermarket fuel pump when the demand of fuel will be high like this case. As for fuel injectors you have to up the size of fuel injector, because we will no longer be making the fuel pressure go over 100psi we will be holding it steady at around 45psi. The way Comtech delivers more fuel to the engine is using the stock fuel injectors and raising the fuel pressure to over a 100psi when under boost
pbassjo said:
All though you may not here the detonation in the car I have herd it on the dyno with special equipment to listen to the engine. If you were to here it in the car over the road noise and engine noise that would be severe detonation. the detonation I am talking about only a trained ear can hear it from about 6800 to redline there would be no way to hear it in the car.
My system for the obd2 nsx is not smog legal and will not pass.
I have no clue if the new units have detonation or not, but I trust what Mike says.
My question is, why would comptech put themselves in a position where their unit could potentially damage at least the 10-15 cars that have already had the new auto rotor unit installed?
My question is, why would comptech put themselves in a position where their unit could potentially damage at least the 10-15 cars that have already had the new auto rotor unit installed?
dynomike said:
Well said!...for once I am speechless.
Im leaning toward a tuned 6lb (really 7lb) kit over a tuned 9lb kit myself.
The extra power will be welcomed, but Im after the same thing as Turbo, a car I can get in everyday, whether its driving to work or driving on the track, and not have to worry about whether or not the conditions are outside of what is safe.
BTW - had my car out on the track today (Mosport). FAST. Had to end the day two sessions before the end because both rears are corded. Its the chargers fault! Cant stay off the gas. The entire car is just working perfect.
With my autorotor ctsc on my 02, there was not a noticeable difference in acceleration between my car or a 996TT or a F360CS. It is running well. Who needs faster? They do
The extra power will be welcomed, but Im after the same thing as Turbo, a car I can get in everyday, whether its driving to work or driving on the track, and not have to worry about whether or not the conditions are outside of what is safe.
BTW - had my car out on the track today (Mosport). FAST. Had to end the day two sessions before the end because both rears are corded. Its the chargers fault! Cant stay off the gas. The entire car is just working perfect.
With my autorotor ctsc on my 02, there was not a noticeable difference in acceleration between my car or a 996TT or a F360CS. It is running well. Who needs faster? They do
Well... I was seriously considering this AEM upgrade until now that I found out it won't pass emissions?! how is anyone tuning the cars and getting away with it? If I don't pass I can't get a window sticker in MA and if I don't get that then I am not going to be able to drive! DAMMIT!!!
Is there an aftermarket ECU that will allow the car to pass?
Is there an aftermarket ECU that will allow the car to pass?
dynomike said:
Shucks. That's what I was afraid of. I hoped you had a solution for that. What are your customers, the OBDII folks in CA, doing to pass?
Switching between the two?
I'm curious, what kind of special equipment do you use to listen to the engine? Is it a mechanic's stethoscope or something electronic?
[QUOTEwhat kind of special equipment do you use to listen to the engine? Is it a mechanic's stethoscope or something electronic
][/QUOTE]
They are special electronic headphones with 8 different leads that clip onto the engine that listen to vibrations.
][/QUOTE]
They are special electronic headphones with 8 different leads that clip onto the engine that listen to vibrations.
Is there an aftermarket ECU that will allow the car to pass?[/QUOTE]
There is no aftermarket ecu made that will pass emisions on obd2 cars. On the obd1 nsx's I have tuned they were able to pass emisions because the car runs like it was from the factory and the smog machine dosen't have to hook up to the car computer. But on the obd2 cars sense they have to plug into the diagnostic obd2 port the smog machine will imediately fail the car right there because it will sense that not everything is working properly. although you can make the car pass the emisions part of the test it will fail on the obd2 reader test.
There is no aftermarket ecu made that will pass emisions on obd2 cars. On the obd1 nsx's I have tuned they were able to pass emisions because the car runs like it was from the factory and the smog machine dosen't have to hook up to the car computer. But on the obd2 cars sense they have to plug into the diagnostic obd2 port the smog machine will imediately fail the car right there because it will sense that not everything is working properly. although you can make the car pass the emisions part of the test it will fail on the obd2 reader test.
The other thing you can do is find someone who will do a sniffer only test on your car.
They're more "expensive" though.
Worst case, swap injectors, unplug AEM and nurse your car to the station staying off boost.
They're more "expensive" though.
Worst case, swap injectors, unplug AEM and nurse your car to the station staying off boost.
More questions Mike:
1) can we run the AEM on the factory pump and injectors as long as we are on low boost? I am asking because it seems if we did that the only swap needed for emissions and check engine lights/service functionality would be to re-plug the factory ECU back in.
2) How much is that serial guage? is this something you permanently mount in the car?
3) Do you know (I have to find this out myself) if in MA the state inspection has anything to do with the ECU? I know we have a sniffer pipe and the car also goes on something like a dyno... the engine must stay clean at speed. But I don't think I have ever seen anyone plug anything into the car... that might be a CA thing only...
1) can we run the AEM on the factory pump and injectors as long as we are on low boost? I am asking because it seems if we did that the only swap needed for emissions and check engine lights/service functionality would be to re-plug the factory ECU back in.
2) How much is that serial guage? is this something you permanently mount in the car?
3) Do you know (I have to find this out myself) if in MA the state inspection has anything to do with the ECU? I know we have a sniffer pipe and the car also goes on something like a dyno... the engine must stay clean at speed. But I don't think I have ever seen anyone plug anything into the car... that might be a CA thing only...
TURBO2GO said:
My opinion.
Most people run factory injectors with the comptech setup, but I have to wonder how much are they being maxed out? I run 500cc injectors and some of the new autorotor units are nearly making the same amount of HP.
My understanding is if you move to the EMS, you need to run bigger injectors and a new fuel pump also, even with the 6lb kit. I dont think the overdrive of the stock pump is utilized.
Best I can tell, the only parts difference between the high and base boost set up is the belt and the pulley.
Which begs the question, do you run 9lb for essentially the same cost or do you stick with 6lb to be safer?
Tough call.
Best I can tell, the only parts difference between the high and base boost set up is the belt and the pulley.
Which begs the question, do you run 9lb for essentially the same cost or do you stick with 6lb to be safer?
Tough call.
BioBanker said:
Don't forget comptech uses 360cc injectors in the high-boost setup and also tweaks their control box.
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