I am looking to purchase a 91 that the owner says it is the original clutch. The car has 75k miles. Is this something i can expect to change right away or have they gone 100k miles?
thanks
thanks
Clutch Life?
- Thread starter YSRman
- Start date
on average a clutch last between 24k n 30k miles. Ive heard cases where they have gone longer ... maybe they power shifted the car ...i dunno. But id say that clutch is probably due to be replaced soon and should be reflected in the price of the sale.Maybe you could ask someone whos had a nsx for a while to go test drive it and give u an evaluation of the car as far as clutch feel. I know when my clutch was about to go ..when i shifted it during high revs it would take a while to catch.
You'll probably be looking into a new clutch soon.
Powered by Honda is Probably right.
That is a very low estimate of clutch life for anyone who knows how to use one unless the hit the drag strip every weekend. But therein lies the rub. There is no way to predict remaining clutch life unless you know exactly how it has been driven. Someone who doesn't really understand how they work and how to use one can trash it in no time and still swear it wasn't their fault. I've seen it SO many times on all kinds of cars. Because the NSX has more power than most those same mistakes lead to even earlier wear, but in the right hands it should last quite a long time. Apparently the one in question here has proven that, as has mine (and I drive it very hard, but correctly).
However, all that said (and it needed to be said), if I were you I would budget now for a clutch and possibly even start shopping for one if you would consider non-OEM, so you are ready to go when the time comes. If you are not experienced with high power manual transmission cars then it will probably be sooner rather than later. No offense, that’s just how it is.
BTW NyC NsX, I don't think "power shifted" means what you think it means.
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 25 August 2002).]
Wrong, wrong, wrong, guys.
First of all, average life for an OEM NSX clutch is somewhere between 30K and 50K miles. There are some clutches that have gotten much more than that (some even over 90K), others that have gotten less, but this is typical of most owners. And if you're getting less, it is probably because you are either riding the clutch or not making a habit of matching revs when you shift.
Second, there is no way of knowing (without opening it up) how soon it will need a new clutch. Unless it's slipping, of course, in which case it needs one right away.
EDIT - sjs posted the same thing as I did...
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 25 August 2002).]
First of all, average life for an OEM NSX clutch is somewhere between 30K and 50K miles. There are some clutches that have gotten much more than that (some even over 90K), others that have gotten less, but this is typical of most owners. And if you're getting less, it is probably because you are either riding the clutch or not making a habit of matching revs when you shift.
Second, there is no way of knowing (without opening it up) how soon it will need a new clutch. Unless it's slipping, of course, in which case it needs one right away.
EDIT - sjs posted the same thing as I did...
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 25 August 2002).]
I think NyC NsX meant "matching revs before letting the clutch out", which extends clutch life. I'm not sure what "power shifting" refers to - I think it might refer to shifting without fully depressing the clutch when doing so, which would reduce clutch life, not extend it.
In my day (ugh, I'm old
)it meant shifting without lifting from WOT. In real life that didn't happen much simply because it isn't possible to use every available RPM and still power shift without exceeding safe revs unless power fell of way before redline. So it really amounted to an incredible fast shift with just the quickest and slightest lift in between. It may well have meant something different in the old hot rod days, and may be used today as nsxtasy suggested, but I hope it hasn't been twisted 180 degrees to mean something like rev matching. Man, I really am old, else this stuff wouldn’t bother me.
Thanks for the help on this guys. I am going to try to budget 2,000.00 for a new clutch. I assume this is about what they nick you for when you install an aftermarket one. Again i appreciate all of the help.
Good plan. About the only thing I'd be willing to bet on is that you'll love the car, and when you have love, what else matters?
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sjs - "power shifting" still means staying WOT through the shift.
An OEM clutch is an OEM clutch. Some people get less than 30k and some people get over 130k out of the friction material. The life of the friction material is a direct result of the way the car is driven.
There is another issue where you can throw a spring in the clutch, usually with hard use, but that has nothing to do with slipping it.
When you buy a used car, you are really taking a gamble on the clutch regardless of miles unless it was JUST replaced.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 25 August 2002).]
An OEM clutch is an OEM clutch. Some people get less than 30k and some people get over 130k out of the friction material. The life of the friction material is a direct result of the way the car is driven.
There is another issue where you can throw a spring in the clutch, usually with hard use, but that has nothing to do with slipping it.
When you buy a used car, you are really taking a gamble on the clutch regardless of miles unless it was JUST replaced.
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 25 August 2002).]
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Is there any deteriation of the clutch with age.
In other words - can one expect the same life of an organic disk clutch that was built today as one that is new but has been sitting on the shelf for ten years?
Or asked another way - 2 cars with the exact same miles on the same clutch but one was replaced recently and one is "original" - any difference in expected remaining clutch life?
In other words - can one expect the same life of an organic disk clutch that was built today as one that is new but has been sitting on the shelf for ten years?
Or asked another way - 2 cars with the exact same miles on the same clutch but one was replaced recently and one is "original" - any difference in expected remaining clutch life?
How much would replacing an OEM clutch for?
How much would replacing an After market performance clutch for?
How much would replacing an After market performance clutch for?
No. Clutches are like brake pads; they are made of friction material that wears away over time. No usage, no wear.
Typically around $2200, including parts and labor.
They vary in price - typically anywhere from $2200 to $3000-3500, I think.
People get aftermarket clutches if they want a clutch that "grabs more", not to save money over OEM.
Pardon me for asking, but what does WOT stands for?
Wide Open Throttle.
not to sound like a total newbie. but I just got my NSX (new clutch installed before purchase), buti have been driving a stick shift for a while now. Can someone explain to me what riding the clutch means and matching revs?
I know from my experience, i let the clutch go until the car slightly shakes and then step on the gas. I dont let it excessively shake or nothing, just dont want to gas every acceleration. Am i riding the clutch in that case? what is the proper way to accelerate an nsx? should i just waste more gas?
Riding the clutch means driving with the clutch pedal partially depressed. Obviously that's a no-no; still, some people do so for a little time while they're transitioning between clutch in and clutch out. The transition should be quite brief.
Matching revs means revving the engine while the clutch is depressed, to the level it will be at for the road speed that the car is traveling. This minimizes the strain on the clutch when you let the clutch out, because the synchros don't have to absorb any difference between the engine revs in neutral and the engine revs that the road speed would need in the gear you're shifting to.
For example, in the NSX with the stock five-speed, let's say you rev all the way to the 8000 RPM redline in first (around 45 miles per hour) and then upshift to second. At that speed in second gear, the engine will be turning at 4500 RPM. If the engine is turning any speed other than 4500 RPM when you let the clutch out, that requires more work on the part of the clutch and synchros. If you either hold the engine at 4500 RPM when letting the clutch out, or time it so that the revs are falling through 4500 RPM when letting the clutch out, this is "matching revs". In addition to minimizing wear on the clutch, it also keeps the car balanced and prevents it from jerking forward or back during the shift. You mention that the car shakes during your shifts. If you match revs, it shouldn't shake at all.
Matching revs is a technique that is desirable in ANY car, not just the NSX.
Very well said Ken. I match revs all the time, even on my daily driver GSR. My NSX has 43K miles and 12 open track events. I heel and toe machting revs on downshifts all the time. My clutch still isn't slipping. I expect it to last quite a long time. As mentioned, it all boils down on how your drive the car.
Vytas
Vytas
Yes. (Funny, I used upshifting in my example - but yes, I try to match revs when upshifting AND when downshifting.)
Ken,
thanks for the info. that is very helpful. I will make sure i drive my 5 spd correctly from now on.
thanks for the info. that is very helpful. I will make sure i drive my 5 spd correctly from now on.
50K on my (new) OEM clutch. Many hard track miles. Match revs, don't ride it.
I understand what matching revs is, but I don't understand how you guys do it. How do you calculate proper revs at all the different speed/gear combinations. For example, I am driving 45mph in 4th gear and want to shift to 5th (to get up to 55mph) - what revs do I pick. How about shifting from 2nd to 3rd to go 30mph in subdivisions. How do you guys figure this (I am not talking performance driving here - just day to day traveling)?
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'91 Black/Black
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'91 Black/Black
I don't "do the math". But I have a general idea of where the revs will wind up. Basically, I'm doing it by "gut feel". I know that revs will be lower in the next gear higher. So I shoot for having the revs somewhat lower in the next higher gear. If I was going 4000 RPM before the upshift, I'll shoot for 3000 RPM after the upshift, and it will be approximately correct.
If you want to do the math to calculate the revs, check out this table showing "RPM Drop During Upshifts", from the Gear Ratios section of the FAQ. It shows the RPM after upshifting from redline (8000 RPM) for each of the upshifts, with the stock 5-speed, the stock 6-speed, and the short gear 5-speed:
1 -> 2 4499 5106 5085
2 -> 3 5698 5837 5738
3 -> 4 6289 6266 5903
4 -> 5 6378 6500 5971
5 -> 6 n/a 6330
You can do the math - so, for example, if I am upshifting at 4000 RPM, the revs after the upshift will be half (4000/8000 = 1/2) of the number shown in this table.
Again, I don't actually do the calculation; I just have a general sense of where the revs will be, knowing that they will be roughly 25 percent lower after an upshift (except a first-to-second upshift, which will be roughly 37 percent lower).
The revs don't have to be EXACT. It's better to try to match revs and be off by 100-200 RPM, than not to try at all.
If you want to do the math to calculate the revs, check out this table showing "RPM Drop During Upshifts", from the Gear Ratios section of the FAQ. It shows the RPM after upshifting from redline (8000 RPM) for each of the upshifts, with the stock 5-speed, the stock 6-speed, and the short gear 5-speed:
1 -> 2 4499 5106 5085
2 -> 3 5698 5837 5738
3 -> 4 6289 6266 5903
4 -> 5 6378 6500 5971
5 -> 6 n/a 6330
You can do the math - so, for example, if I am upshifting at 4000 RPM, the revs after the upshift will be half (4000/8000 = 1/2) of the number shown in this table.
Again, I don't actually do the calculation; I just have a general sense of where the revs will be, knowing that they will be roughly 25 percent lower after an upshift (except a first-to-second upshift, which will be roughly 37 percent lower).
The revs don't have to be EXACT. It's better to try to match revs and be off by 100-200 RPM, than not to try at all.
