Clutch Damper Assembly - Why and I don't want this....

[ffffanman]

So it has come to my attention that our cars, up to 97 anyways... come with a Clutch Damper. After much discussions and thoughts I come up with the following comments.
Why do we need one.
Is this little device the reason clutch feel is different on various cars that are running stock clutch?
Is this why some clutches wear out faster than others if this is not working as designed?
Can a person delete this device and be happy and have more usable initial clamping force. I'm not saying more clamping force, just that it is there fully sooner.

Now, my speculation.
My thoughts are because of the design and mechanics of our pull to release clutch system, this device was added to modify the timing of the clamping of the pressure plate to the clutch and flywheel on release of the pedal.
Now if I am right there then:
The device would let the full pressure go directly from the master to the slave when you step on the clutch and this would instantly disengage the clutch.
Then as you release the clutch pedal, the device kicks in and slows the fluid traveling back to the master, thus slowing the clamping action on the disk and flywheel from the pressure plate.
Think of it as an old saloon with windows and a two way swinging door. Most clutches are this way. When your open for business, your customers can come in through the swinging doors and the windows and at closing they can leave through the swinging doors and the windows. Everything is equal and everyone is in and out at the same time.
Now on the Nsx Saloon, things are different.
They installed one way doors that swing in only.
So you get all your patrons in fast through the doors and the windows, but on the way out, the doors won't open so everyone has to go out through the windows, thus slowing things down.

Well this is the best I can come up with for this device.
My car has seen atleast 4 clutches through its 4 owners in 110,000 miles and there must be more to it than poor clutchers.......lol

Has anyone cut one of these open to see what is inside?
Has anyone taken one out of the system and what happened?

Just wondering and thinking, maybe too much.
Trev
Its piece 24 in the attached.

 

[ffffanman]

Just saw this where they deleted the Clutch Damper.
Over the years Honda has continued to pursue weight reduction in the NSX. The design of the NSX-R incorporates weight reduction technologies achieved through the evolution of the base model. For the second generation NSX, Honda have employed fixed headlights, stainless exhausts and thinner exterior panels. Weight reduction specific to the NSX-R include carbon fiber aerodynamic devices, Recaro Bucket Seats, Momo steering wheel, no sound insulation, smaller battery, no power locks or doors, no hydrualic clutch damper, non-powered mirrors with air conditioning, audio and airbags being optional. These elements lower the weight of NSX-R by 78 kgs (172 lbs).

Also found little blurbs about problems associated with a similar device in other cars.
BMW guys like to remove theirs for a better bite.
Heres a link with some pics from a guy.
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/Disco_clutch_damper.htm

 

[cmc140]

I spoke with Shad at Driving Ambition last week about some issues with my RPS. He stated that the clutch dampener should be removed with some of the after-market clutch kits. I believe one of the Comptech clutches (PG2?) shipped with a device to bypass the dampener. Although, it looks identical to the factory dampener device. My impression was that the dampener can cause the clutch to not fully dis-engage. However, you may just want to give him a call. He also stated that he could get the dampener bypass assembly, which I am going to order from him.

 

[amengineering]

SOS sells a damper delete kit, don't know what it does though. I am going to do an RPS clutch in a month or so. If you get the delete installed post up on if it helped or changed clucth feel.

 

[ffffanman]

You know I will and I will cut things open and I will take pics and........so on.
My buddy has an RPS coming up from Dali,so I might get a delete hose from him.
Roger and out.
Can't wait to cut open M.C. Daves piece we just took out. Oh, thats if I get it from him... lol
Trev

 

[OLDMNSX]

Interesting.

 

[angus]

It is very common to delete the damper on other cars ( 2g dsm's, and others) it will provide a more direct feel to moldulate clutch engagement, I suspect they put it there to give the clutch a more "user friendly" feeling , I'm pretty sure you'll never see this on a race car , the damper needs to have a suitably stiff spring inside to accomodate the weight of the clutch spring , or yes , it could possibly affect the release characteristics of the clutch,



JUST BYPASS IT WITH A BRAIDED LINE AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT!!!

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Admittedly this is speculative, but I always thought that was a safety measure to protect the slave from blowing it's brains out, in case the pressure plate got jambed. I have removed it for a few of the CT PGII installs as mentioned above. I have also left it, for PRS installs which I felt was about as stiff as the PGII with no ill side effects.

Nice wieght reduction

Regards,
LarryB

 

[clarknm]

So I had an RPS clutch installed approximately 3 years ago, and it spent about a year with a supercharger making ~430rwhp, followed by less than 1000 miles of track duty (without supercharger). I put maybe 7k/yr total on the car.

The clutch pedal is sticky on the return from the floorpan now, and I was wondering if this damper could be the cause?

The master/slave cylinders were replaced, fluid bled, no luck fixing the problem. The local tech suggested the pressure plate is bad, so a "bad" damper with a $65 part to fix bypass/fix would be a pretty nice thing for me right about now. Seems like pretty low use for the pressure plate to go bad too, but I don't know much about aftermarket part longevity..

 

[Eclipsed]

Hrmm.. i must look into this, my clutch has felt "off" like it dosent disengage all the way since i replaced it.

 

[davidf]

Hrmm.. i must look into this, my clutch has felt "off" like it dosent disengage all the way since i replaced it.

Correct me if I use the wrong term but did you "initialize" the clutch after install. I've read something in past threads about clutches not operating properly due to not initializing them. GL.

 

[Eclipsed]

Correct me if I use the wrong term but did you "initialize" the clutch after install. I've read something in past threads about clutches not operating properly due to not initializing them. GL.

Ya had to initialize it 2 or 3 times, it wouldnt hardly shift until I finally got it right. Shifts real smooth, just feels much i dunno hard to explain, just feels off. The clutch I ended up putting in was comptech stage 1 rebuild clutch.

 

[ffffanman]

Eclipsed - I don't get it. Please clarify.
If the clutch you bought is a Comptech-NSX Clutch, Powergrip 1 (91-05 NSX),
then this is a single disk clutch and does not need initialization.
Also this clutch was sold with a replacement block for your Clutch Damper Assembly. So you replace the round stock piece with a squarish piece that Comptech made and thus does not delay your clutch movement.
Did you get this piece and install it?
Just wondering.
Trev.

 

[Eclipsed]

Eclipsed - I don't get it. Please clarify.
If the clutch you bought is a Comptech-NSX Clutch, Powergrip 1 (91-05 NSX),
then this is a single disk clutch and does not need initialization.
Also this clutch was sold with a replacement block for your Clutch Damper Assembly. So you replace the round stock piece with a squarish piece that Comptech made and thus does not delay your clutch movement.
Did you get this piece and install it?
Just wondering.
Trev.

Did not get that piece, bought it off someone else that had it and didnt use it. I was told it was a comptech rebuilt clutch, came in a standard cardboard box, so for all I know it's an OEM clutch. The discs (plural) were brand spanking new, used housing and flywheel.

 

[ffffanman]

Cool, well we might never know what twin disk clutch you got.....and yes, you then must have had to initialize that baby!
Perhaps it is the rebuilt stock clutch with stronger pressure plate and better pads.
Thats what I am running and have been happy with it with 325-360 rear wheel bhp.
Trev

 

[Eclipsed]

Cool, well we might never know what twin disk clutch you got.....and yes, you then must have had to initialize that baby!
Perhaps it is the rebuilt stock clutch with stronger pressure plate and better pads.
Thats what I am running and have been happy with it with 325-360 rear wheel bhp.
Trev

Well I will say this, its 10x stiffer then the old one, i'm very happy with it.

 

[ffffanman]

Thats what my new girlfriend said to me.
T-Bone

 

[Eclipsed]

Thats what my new girlfriend said to me.
T-Bone

I see what u did there

 

[clarknm]

JUST BYPASS IT WITH A BRAIDED LINE AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT!!!

Planning to do this tomorrow, anyone know what size line it needs? Car is currently at the garage and I'm hoping to avoid a parts run after I get it up on the rack (and the fees accrue). :smile:

 

[Onsoku]

So I had an RPS clutch installed approximately 3 years ago, and it spent about a year with a supercharger making ~430rwhp, followed by less than 1000 miles of track duty (without supercharger). I put maybe 7k/yr total on the car.

The clutch pedal is sticky on the return from the floorpan now, and I was wondering if this damper could be the cause?

The master/slave cylinders were replaced, fluid bled, no luck fixing the problem. The local tech suggested the pressure plate is bad, so a "bad" damper with a $65 part to fix bypass/fix would be a pretty nice thing for me right about now. Seems like pretty low use for the pressure plate to go bad too, but I don't know much about aftermarket part longevity..

+1

I have the same issue with my car; so a definitive answer is welcomed!

 

[EuroBoutique]

Can someone tell me if there is a delay valve in a 2004 NSX?

Also what model clutch do I have here? I want this same feel that I've come to love in my s2000 and put it in the NSX!

 

[ffffanman]

Don't think you'll ever get the same feel because the mechanics are different.
Soooo many different variables.
Best is to find someones nsx that feels good for you and your purpose and copy that.

The Clutch Damper Assembly is from 91 to 96 year.

Trev

 

[nsxiest]

Opened one of these up a while back ffffanman (out of curiosity regarding the mechanism) so here are the pics in case anyone is interested, note: some of the "post-hacksaw" mangled casing is missing in these shots

 

[ffffanman]

OK, thanks, so did you figure how this device works.
Is there moving parts, or just restricted orifice thingy or what.
Now I am curious again!
We have an o-ring, we have a notched part...
Trev

 

[nsxiest]

As far as I can tell, restricted orfice thingy and not a piston type action. That notch was from my saw btw. It looked like to me that the fluid pressure acts against that flat rubber ring in the base, forcing it/mashing it either outward radially (red arrows) or downward (circles with x's, i.e. vector is into page). I thought maybe the distortion/stretching and/or compression of the rubber acts to buffer the engagement by transmitting the fluid force over a small window of time instead of all at once. i.e. kind of 'storing' the force momentarily via rubber stretch/compress and releasing it over time as the rubber returns to it's normal shape/volume.