Considering buying one of these. I'm tired of paying dearly at the pump just to run around town. I was wondering if someone could help me out on a question though. According to the FAQ section of Honda's website, the battery pack should last 10 years. What happens after that? Will it need to be replaced? Will the new battery plus installation be more than the car is worth? Does anyone know and can elaborate for me?
Civic Hybrid Question.
- Thread starter White92
- Start date
what? Like the battery that starts the car?
A battery costs like $70-80, you can get them anywhere and if you have a 10mm wrench install will cost you $0
A battery costs like $70-80, you can get them anywhere and if you have a 10mm wrench install will cost you $0
what battery are you talking about then
edit: ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean the electric powered civic HYBRID. Doh I was totally thinking you meant like a 95 civic hatch with a B18 swap in it when you said hybrid LOL
edit: ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean the electric powered civic HYBRID. Doh I was totally thinking you meant like a 95 civic hatch with a B18 swap in it when you said hybrid LOL
Yeah see my edit above. Anyway
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/03civic_hybrid.htm
This is canadian $
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/03civic_hybrid.htm
This is canadian $
hahaha, don't worry about it. I should have been more specific. Up until recently, the word "hybrid" meant the same thing to me too! ie: B18C into an EK or EG, etc...
But thanks for looking up that info. I'm starting to think that the Civic Hybrid is pretty cool and they're making great advancements in that area, but it still might not be 100% practical to have. It looks like it might not save that much money over the regular Civic and in 8 years, the replacement battery pack will costs more than the car is worth, which is the main reason I was going back and forth between buying and not buying the car. Are we going to have junkyards full of Hybrid Electric Civics in 10 years? I'm beginning to think we will. Maybe I'll look more closely at the Hybrid Accord when it comes out. Is that this fall or next?
But thanks for looking up that info. I'm starting to think that the Civic Hybrid is pretty cool and they're making great advancements in that area, but it still might not be 100% practical to have. It looks like it might not save that much money over the regular Civic and in 8 years, the replacement battery pack will costs more than the car is worth, which is the main reason I was going back and forth between buying and not buying the car. Are we going to have junkyards full of Hybrid Electric Civics in 10 years? I'm beginning to think we will. Maybe I'll look more closely at the Hybrid Accord when it comes out. Is that this fall or next?
As for the battery pack thing, the warranty on it is supposed to cover the 'life' of the car...are you planning on owning the car more than 8-10 years? Toyota and Honda are basically speculatiing that the actual cost of the replacement battery will be cheaper in 10 years due to technology advancements and more electric cars out there
but your resale value will plummet if the battery packs are expensive and you're getting to the end of your warranty.
However it's probably pretty easy to 'damage' the battery and get it covered under warranty
but your resale value will plummet if the battery packs are expensive and you're getting to the end of your warranty.
However it's probably pretty easy to 'damage' the battery and get it covered under warranty
I'm sure it is making an SUV hard to own. I have a 99 Accord right now and even that is getting hard to fill with gas every week! I filled up this morning with 88 octane and it was a little over $29! That is the highest I have ever paid for a tank of gas in my life! So I can imagine what it's taking those Excursions, Suburbans, etc...
No I'm not planning on keeping it nearly that long, but I have to think of resale as well. If everyone knows that a few years after buying the car from me they are going to have to spend another 4 or 5 grand for a new battery pack, who would want to do that? They might as well go put 4 or 5 grand down on a brand new one. Most people get pissed when they go to the dealership and find out how much a timing belt/water pump service is. Who is going to go to a dealership and shell out $5k in one visit? Not me.
satan_srv said:
I was thinking the same thing!
That figure is way off. In general, there appears to be a lot of misinformation on the "hidden cost of hybrids." According to the Insight Central FAQs, the replacement battery pack on the Insight is around 1225 USD. I have not checked, but I think the Civic Hybrid's battery pack would be in the same ballpark.
Even if the battery lasts 8 years and 1 day (out of the warranty period), you're essentially paying only $150/year for the cost of the replacement battery. BTW: The Insight uses a timing chain rather than a belt, so you don't have to worry about the expense associated with regular replacement of this item.
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Since we were all confused about which Honda Hybrids we were talking about, I thought it might be fun to add this link. Insight with a K20 engine drag car? Pretty cool if you ask me...
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=843958
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=843958
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- 2,273
Some comments, speculation:
- In the US you get a $2,000 tax credit per year for driving a qualified hybrid car (talk to your tax professional)
- The CVT transmission is only available in the Hybrid (pretty slick)
- I am not sure that even if the battery falls below specifications and does not charge and discharge as efficiently you couldn't continue to operate the car as a less efficient, all gas engine (again just a question but I am guessing that even if you unplug the battery the car would still operate with less performance )
- This fall there is supposed to be a Hybrid Accord (if you were looking for something bigger)
Good luck! I agree that these are very slick machines for commuting.
- In the US you get a $2,000 tax credit per year for driving a qualified hybrid car (talk to your tax professional)
- The CVT transmission is only available in the Hybrid (pretty slick)
- I am not sure that even if the battery falls below specifications and does not charge and discharge as efficiently you couldn't continue to operate the car as a less efficient, all gas engine (again just a question but I am guessing that even if you unplug the battery the car would still operate with less performance )
- This fall there is supposed to be a Hybrid Accord (if you were looking for something bigger)
Good luck! I agree that these are very slick machines for commuting.
White92 said:
No need to imagine, my friend. I took my Suburban, which holds around 26 gallons, and my boat, which holds 60 gallons, to fill up the other day. Premium fuel was $1.89 a gallon, so in addition to it taking me about 30 minutes to fill up these suckers, I paid $162. Since both have a big V8, they suck the gas. This transaction will easily be repeated 3-4 times a month in the summer, when we are constantly at the lake (where, by the way, our marina charges $2.25 a gallon).
Now, add to that gas for the NSX, my wife's other Suburban, and a SeaDoo, and I bet we spend almost $1000 a month on gas in the peak months. Ouch!
If I understand this credit correctly, it's not $2000 per year, but a one time credit of $2000. Also, it has been reduced to $1500 this year and will be incrementally phased-out over the next two years.matteni said:
Yippie
BTW: The CVT is very cool!
Sorry if I am coming in a little late on this thread, but I wanted to chime in. There is a lot of misinformation out there about these cars that I want to clear up a little here.
I have a 2004 civic Hybrid with just over 40k miles on it now (my daily driver). It has been the cheapest (to operate) and most reliable car I have ever owned. You only have to change the 0W-20 synthetic oil every 12 months or 10K miles, and the first tune up is at the 100K mile mark.
The actual basic battery warranty from Honda is 8 years or 80k miles (whichever comes first). I got the extended warranty ($20 more a month) which covers me bumper to bumper until 2011 or 100k miles.
The actual battery replacement cost at my local dealership here in Melbourne Florida is $1400, and that is including labor. No-one I know that owns either the Insight or the Civic Hybrid has had to replace the battery pack. A couple of the people I know have over 150K miles on their 2003 Civic Hybrids, and they are still working perfectly. That reminds me of another thing, the brakes on these vehicles almost last indefinetly due to the regenerative braking being used the majority of the time when you are coming to a stop.
The Toyota Prius has the most expensive battery pack out there, and its still only $3k (a far cry from the hype you hear all the time). If you don't believe me, here is a quick read: http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm
Now I have read on forum sights of people having to replace these battery packs, but of the people I actually know that own these things, no-one has had to do it.
I actually wonder if some of the battery replacement garbage is just stories written by oil company people who want you to keep wasting $60 to $80 of your hard earned money, twice a week on gas. :wink:
I have a 2004 civic Hybrid with just over 40k miles on it now (my daily driver). It has been the cheapest (to operate) and most reliable car I have ever owned. You only have to change the 0W-20 synthetic oil every 12 months or 10K miles, and the first tune up is at the 100K mile mark.
The actual basic battery warranty from Honda is 8 years or 80k miles (whichever comes first). I got the extended warranty ($20 more a month) which covers me bumper to bumper until 2011 or 100k miles.
The actual battery replacement cost at my local dealership here in Melbourne Florida is $1400, and that is including labor. No-one I know that owns either the Insight or the Civic Hybrid has had to replace the battery pack. A couple of the people I know have over 150K miles on their 2003 Civic Hybrids, and they are still working perfectly. That reminds me of another thing, the brakes on these vehicles almost last indefinetly due to the regenerative braking being used the majority of the time when you are coming to a stop.
The Toyota Prius has the most expensive battery pack out there, and its still only $3k (a far cry from the hype you hear all the time). If you don't believe me, here is a quick read: http://hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm
Now I have read on forum sights of people having to replace these battery packs, but of the people I actually know that own these things, no-one has had to do it.
I actually wonder if some of the battery replacement garbage is just stories written by oil company people who want you to keep wasting $60 to $80 of your hard earned money, twice a week on gas. :wink:
Wow! Thanks for the real world info. You answered just about every question I had about this whole situation. If they are only $1400, I think I would consider getting one again. Are the timing belt and everything else "the usual" on hybrid cars?
Also, do you have the manual or auto Civic? How's the power? What about getting on the freeway?
Also, do you have the manual or auto Civic? How's the power? What about getting on the freeway?
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you need to look around the insight forums...
they are running into these problems as cars go over 100,000 miles... the batteries are not lasting the full 8 years... and are very expensive to replace.
http://insightcentral.net
one thread i read had a battery pack replacement cost @148K miles (before his extended warranty covered it) quote of $6300.
that said i'm still looking into an insight... :/ hoping to get lucky i guess
they are running into these problems as cars go over 100,000 miles... the batteries are not lasting the full 8 years... and are very expensive to replace.
http://insightcentral.net
one thread i read had a battery pack replacement cost @148K miles (before his extended warranty covered it) quote of $6300.
that said i'm still looking into an insight... :/ hoping to get lucky i guess
I have the CVT transmission which at first took a little getting used to because I was always waiting to feel the gear shifts that never happen. :biggrin:
Driving the car is a little like playing a video game with the digital dash controls and all the electric motor sounds. If you take one for a drive you will know what I mean. Its a lot of fun.
It has more than enough power to get up to 70 on even the shortest of on ramps around here. The CVT helps you get up to speed in some respects due to the fact that time is not wasted shifting. When passing on a two lane road I just make sure I have plenty of room, but it jumps from 40 to 60mph pretty quick.
I love the gas milage. It has a 13 gallon tank but the "feed me" light comes on at the 11 gallon mark, so even at $3 a gallon a few weeks ago, it only cost me $33 to fill it. I average 46mpg when I am not using the air conditioning, and 43 with it on (but I am a lead-foot). My buddies get closer to 50mpg on average with slower accelerations and preparing to to stop sooner (longer regenerative braking distances). Let me tell you though, its awesome only having to fill up every 525 to 575 miles. :biggrin:
The gasoline engine is similar to the lean burn Civic HX engine with the exception that it shuts down to feeding and firing only one cylinder when you are coasting or coming to a stop. When you come to a full stop it totally shuts down the engine until the moment you lift your foot from the brake, and the electic motor spins the engine back to life. Thats another thing I love about these hybrids, they don't normally use the starter to start the engine. You get in, turn the key, and the engine just purrs to life. The only time they use the normal car battery and starter is if the rechargeable batteries are drained (say if you haven't started it in over a month), otherwise it always uses the hybrid electric motor to spin up the gas engine.
[edit] Correction from OJAS - The Civic Hybrid gas engine uses a timing CHAIN. I repeat: a CHAIN, not a belt. :biggrin: So you don't have to deal with replacint a belt as part of the normal maintainence after all. [end edit]
Driving the car is a little like playing a video game with the digital dash controls and all the electric motor sounds. If you take one for a drive you will know what I mean. Its a lot of fun.
It has more than enough power to get up to 70 on even the shortest of on ramps around here. The CVT helps you get up to speed in some respects due to the fact that time is not wasted shifting. When passing on a two lane road I just make sure I have plenty of room, but it jumps from 40 to 60mph pretty quick.
I love the gas milage. It has a 13 gallon tank but the "feed me" light comes on at the 11 gallon mark, so even at $3 a gallon a few weeks ago, it only cost me $33 to fill it. I average 46mpg when I am not using the air conditioning, and 43 with it on (but I am a lead-foot). My buddies get closer to 50mpg on average with slower accelerations and preparing to to stop sooner (longer regenerative braking distances). Let me tell you though, its awesome only having to fill up every 525 to 575 miles. :biggrin:
The gasoline engine is similar to the lean burn Civic HX engine with the exception that it shuts down to feeding and firing only one cylinder when you are coasting or coming to a stop. When you come to a full stop it totally shuts down the engine until the moment you lift your foot from the brake, and the electic motor spins the engine back to life. Thats another thing I love about these hybrids, they don't normally use the starter to start the engine. You get in, turn the key, and the engine just purrs to life. The only time they use the normal car battery and starter is if the rechargeable batteries are drained (say if you haven't started it in over a month), otherwise it always uses the hybrid electric motor to spin up the gas engine.
[edit] Correction from OJAS - The Civic Hybrid gas engine uses a timing CHAIN. I repeat: a CHAIN, not a belt. :biggrin: So you don't have to deal with replacint a belt as part of the normal maintainence after all. [end edit]
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Everyone, please take me off your ignore lists.
White92,
Actually, I mentioned how inexpensive the batteries are when you first asked. Maybe you should take me off your ignore list.
dnicho05,
I definitely agree with you - There's a lot of misinformation out there. Thanks for sharing your own points of reference and experiences, but the Insight and Civic Hybrid (all years) do not have a timing belt. They use a timing chain (I also mentioned this above). Maybe you were thinking of the Accord Hybrid, which does use a belt. See 2004 Honda Civic: Part Catalog and 2006 Honda Civic Powertrains.
rickysals,
I'm not sure who you're replying to and I don't recall this thread, but the FAQ on the very site you mention (the link is in my first post of this thread) says the battery is around $1225. Part sites shows the same price and this figure is consistent with the quote dnicho05 provided. Perhaps the $6800 figure was to repair some freak incident that fried the control units or motors (which are somewhat expensive, but I've not heard of them ever going out). So, I don't think you should worry too much about the battery.
White92,
Actually, I mentioned how inexpensive the batteries are when you first asked. Maybe you should take me off your ignore list.
dnicho05,
I definitely agree with you - There's a lot of misinformation out there. Thanks for sharing your own points of reference and experiences, but the Insight and Civic Hybrid (all years) do not have a timing belt. They use a timing chain (I also mentioned this above). Maybe you were thinking of the Accord Hybrid, which does use a belt. See 2004 Honda Civic: Part Catalog and 2006 Honda Civic Powertrains.
rickysals,
I'm not sure who you're replying to and I don't recall this thread, but the FAQ on the very site you mention (the link is in my first post of this thread) says the battery is around $1225. Part sites shows the same price and this figure is consistent with the quote dnicho05 provided. Perhaps the $6800 figure was to repair some freak incident that fried the control units or motors (which are somewhat expensive, but I've not heard of them ever going out). So, I don't think you should worry too much about the battery.
slightly off thread, but we got our prius in dec and love it for our day to day, practical driving. we've used it for a couple of 500+ mile trips and though my big butt/prius seats have some "issues", it's quiet, comfortable and extremely fuel efficient.
btw, to the poster in early may that said they bought premium for $1.86ish - a month later here in silicon valley and it's >$3.50 gal.
yup, my road bicycle's getting a workout these days
overnout.
hal
btw, to the poster in early may that said they bought premium for $1.86ish - a month later here in silicon valley and it's >$3.50 gal.
yup, my road bicycle's getting a workout these days
overnout.
hal
Re: Everyone, please take me off your ignore lists.
Sorry. You have now been taken off my ignore list.:biggrin: Actually I don't remember reading that response of yours. I have now, and thanks for the info.:wink:
Ojas said:White92,
Actually, I mentioned how inexpensive the batteries are when you first asked. Maybe you should take me off your ignore list.
dnicho05,
I definitely agree with you - There's a lot of misinformation out there. Thanks for sharing your own points of reference and experiences, but the Insight and Civic Hybrid (all years) do not have a timing belt. They use a timing chain (I also mentioned this above). Maybe you were thinking of the Accord Hybrid, which does use a belt. See 2004 Honda Civic: Part Catalog and 2006 Honda Civic Powertrains.
rickysals,
I'm not sure who you're replying to and I don't recall this thread, but the FAQ on the very site you mention (the link is in my first post of this thread) says the battery is around $1225. Part sites shows the same price and this figure is consistent with the quote dnicho05 provided. Perhaps the $6800 figure was to repair some freak incident that fried the control units or motors (which are somewhat expensive, but I've not heard of them ever going out). So, I don't think you should worry too much about the battery.
Sorry. You have now been taken off my ignore list.:biggrin: Actually I don't remember reading that response of yours. I have now, and thanks for the info.:wink:
Re: Everyone, please take me off your ignore lists.
Thats too funny. Well thats what I get for listening to the sales guy. I specifically asked if this had a timing belt when I was buying the car and that was what he told me. He said: "Yes they have a timing belt, but its not expensive to replace, and you simply do it at the 100k mile tuneup." Maybe he was confusing it with the Accord Hybrid as well. :biggrin:
So cool, thats even better, now I don't even have to worry about replacing a timing belt. This is definetly the best daily driver I've ever owned. :smile:
Ojas said:
Thats too funny. Well thats what I get for listening to the sales guy. I specifically asked if this had a timing belt when I was buying the car and that was what he told me. He said: "Yes they have a timing belt, but its not expensive to replace, and you simply do it at the 100k mile tuneup." Maybe he was confusing it with the Accord Hybrid as well. :biggrin:
So cool, thats even better, now I don't even have to worry about replacing a timing belt. This is definetly the best daily driver I've ever owned. :smile:
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