Car Values, Mods and Such

[DocL]

Originally posted by JPS Europa:
...So as someone who plans on keeping his NSX a long time, I would like to keep values up. Some of these mods are driving down the value of ALL the cars. I am sure you know about DPO's (D**n Previous Owner). Don't be one...

So basically you are blaming the owners who mod their cars for the recent and future decline of the value of our NSX.

This reminds me of the one finance class in college I took where the professor gave us a fake bank account with $250,000 to invest. We had to list specific investments and hand in our protfolio the second week of class and he held them until the last week and the person who accumulated the most wealth got a prize. (A bottle of something, but I don't remember what.) Anyway, being the car nut that I am, I listed an investment of a $100k Ferrari. Well, at the end of the class, the professor had depreciated this investment, and since I had no idea what I was doing in the first place, my other investments didn't do so well either. Thankfully this was fake money and didn't count towards my grade because I ended with something like $80k at the end of the semester. The thing that I learned, and was told by the professor, is that a car should never be considered an investment to grow wealth. There is such a small market for high end cars, and the ones that will appreciate are well out of my price range to begin with.

So, if you feel that my modifications are going to hurt the value of your car in the future, sell it now for highest dollar you can get, and then buy anther one in a few years when the prices are really low. Unfortunately I don't see the NSX as becoming a collector car because of the limited production numbers. It is however, a fabulous exotic at an affordale price that is reliable.

If you want a car that will retain it's value, I suggest that you pick up a 1965 Shelby Cobra and keep it in a bubble.

Sorry for the rant, but I can't accept someone placing the blame on me for the depreciation of an object that is nototiously known to depreciate. Especially with the present ecconomic situation.

 

[snapper]

Lud,
I said KBB was CLOSE. It is a guide, not the law. It is a starting point, nothing more, nothing less.

And for that matter, on a $25k to $35k item $2.5k IS close.

I offered 31 because "all things (re-sale/tranny replace) considered" I felt like it was a fair price. Judging from the auction outcome many others agree.

Last I checked the car is still for sale.
Just like many, many others.
While the sellers wait for "what their worth".

 

[JPS Europa]

Originally posted by Dr.Lane:
So basically you are blaming the owners who mod their cars for the recent and future decline of the value of our NSX.

No rant and nothing personal. Mostly I blame Honda for not keeping up the development and spotty marketing. They had an opportunity and blew it. I have no real problems with any mods as long as they are in good taste and done well. I agree that cars are a lousy investment. This thread turned into some kind of ebay valuation commentary anyway. Thanks for sticking to the point.


------------------
Happy Motoring At all Costs!

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by snapper:
Last I checked the car is still for sale.
Just like many, many others.
While the sellers wait for "what their worth".

As I noted above, prices on eBay tend to be lower than elsewhere. You can imply (as you are doing here) that sellers have unrealistic expectations about their cars' worth, and in some cases that may be true. However, even with realistic expectations, the prices are still going to be lower than elsewhere.

I'll give you a typical example. Let's take an example car that I like to stereotype as the "perfect older NSX" - perfect not because it has super-low miles, but perfect because it has been well cared for and has no issues. Let's take a '91 NSX with 40-50K miles (slightly below average) with no issues, meaning the finish is in excellent condition albeit with some chips on the front end consistent with mileage, the interior is in excellent condition, all maintenance done promptly including the timing belt and water pump done several years ago, the window regulators updated, not in snap ring range (or in range but the snap ring and transmission case replaced), absolutely everything in perfect working condition, no mods except possibly exhaust, headers, and wheels. I can easily sell a car like that for $34-35K any day of the week, maybe even a grand or two higher. I seriously doubt that a car like that would fetch as much as $30K on eBay.

Why is this? Is it because the people who bid on eBay are lowballers? Is it because people aren't willing to pay as much on eBay as elsewhere because they are concerned about fraud and misrepresentation? Is it because eBay is a mass market and people looking for a "perfect car" don't expect to find it there but would expect to find it on sites catering to the enthusiast (e.g. NSXprime)? I don't know. But it goes right back to milz50's comment about an item that is high priced, condition sensitive. If you're selling brand new copies of the latest rock music CD, eBay is a very efficient way of establishing a market value for an item (when purchased from a private buyer, which may be lower than one purchased from an established "bricks and clicks" business). But on a specialty item like an NSX, eBay prices tend to be less than can be had elsewhere. And I base my comments on intimate familiarity with the NSX market from my ongoing contact with many buyers and sellers.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 February 2003).]

 

[snapper]

nsxtacy,
You just described the car I am set to pay 27.5 for in 2 weeks. I also have a list of others in case my seller gets lucky between now and then.

All I am saying is that many have an emotional attachment that will not convert $$'s at resale. I use Ebay's completed auctions as a guide along with KBB and others. Further on Ebay. The buyer has many more options to protect himself from fraud on a $50k item than with a $20 CD.

As far as overall NSX perceived value. A few kooks jazzing up their cars has little impact. Honda's handling of design defects has a more substantial impact. How this snap ring issue has not turned into a class action lawsuit is beyond me.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by snapper:
nsxtacy,
You just described the car I am set to pay 27.5 for in 2 weeks. I also have a list of others in case my seller gets lucky between now and then.

Then either (a) you are finding cars at prices that others have failed to find, or (b) the cars are nowhere near as "perfect" as my description. (And I would bet heavily that it's the latter.) Just ask NetViper. He was looking for over a year with a budget of $32K; he scoured all the internet sites and couldn't find a car like that for anywhere near the price you state. A friend of mine has a car like that and recently sold it for $37K and it wasn't even in Cali$$$$$$$$fornia.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 February 2003).]

 

[snapper]

I'll let you know in two weeks.

I'd have it now if I had the garage space.

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by snapper:
Last I checked the car is still for sale.
Just like many, many others.
While the sellers wait for "what their worth".

Yeah, I was one of those sellers a few years ago when I sold my '91 NSX. I ignored all the lowball dreamers offering $4k-$8k less than my asking price for a couple months.

It's always a pretty good sign someone is just a dreamer when the first thing they do is try to start haggling down the price before they see the car or ask any serious questions about it.

Then a real buyer contacted me, asked a bunch of detailed questions about the car, drove 5.5 hours to see it, and after a thorough inspection and test drive wrote a check on the spot for the asking price.

So the end result was I got what I was asking for the car, a buyer got a car they really liked at a price they were happy with, and the dreamers were still dreamers (or at least several of them were who e-mailed me over the next few months offering slightly higher bit still ridiculously low amounts).

I've heard from quite a lot of of people who have sold NSXs and it seems that my experience is a very common scenario.

Anyway, I hope you do find a good car for a good price. Post some pictures when you get it and I look forward to seeing you be part of the owner community here.

 

[snapper]

Will do.

 

[mlambert890]

Snapper,

You sound like someone frustrated that you can't find what you want at the price you want it. If you really have found the car you're describing at $27k, then congratulations. The fact that you're this frustrated, however, proves that it's probably you who's out of touch with the market value of the car.

Anyone can hold out long enough to find someone in a desperate situation. That doesn't prove much. If you are *truly* correct in your argument, then you should be able to take Lud up on his offer.

Incidentally, if EBay really is "setting the price for everything", then everything is selling north of MSRP. Look at PDAs, action figures, computers, basically anything, and you will see a trend of idiots bidding common items above what they can readily be purchased for NEW at any decent online vendor. That's called "bidders insanity" and it's what really characterizes EBay. It's well known enough that most do not take EBay all that seriously and, as such, the laughable "Motors" section doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

[snapper]

Frustrated........oh brother.....