Car & Driver on the new Subara WRX

[blurr]

Impressive for a "shitbox"? Sure. Heck, I think a Neon SRT-4 is even more impressive, considering that it costs two thirds the price of the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

This is sorta what my post was about. Everyone is quoting the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. These numbers are very impressive, even on the Neon SRT-4. There are many, many cars that perform better in a strait line better than an NSX, but it has almost always been the case that the NSX would turn faster laps at the track. Take the SL 55 AMG for instance. Really nice car, really fast in a strait line, but get it out on the track and you can feel every one of those 4000+ lbs trying to turn the corner.

The EVO VIII and apparently the New STI accelerate with the NSX, turn with the NSX and in the case of the EVO out brake the NSX by a good margin. The Neon SRT-4, standard WRX ect, still fall into the category of cars that do one aspect very well but not both.

Don’t get me wrong, I just went out and drove my roommates EVO then got in my Zanardi and the Zanardi is more fun. I do like the steering in the EVO better. Come to think about it I like the Steering in my roommates previous WRX and my RSX more than the NSX. The NSX’s Steering wheel is to big. My hands hit my legs in the NSX when I am making quick turns. I wish there was a way to change to a smaller steering wheel that had the airbag.

When I think of selling my NSX I am torn between my quest to experience many different cars and the feeling that I might not ever be able to get into another NSX that feels as good as the one I have now. I am not stuck on one brand of car, though you would think that from the list of cars I have owned. When I think about the “car experience” I think we are in a great automotive time. Rarely have there been so many great cars to choose from.

Cars I have owned:
1994 Civic EX
2000 NSX-T
2002 RSX-S
1999 NSX Zanardi

Cars to go through in the next few years (in no particular order):
SL 55 AMG
360 Modena
911 Turbo
Lamborghini Gallardo
Lotus Elise, Exige
Evo, or STI
Maybe a Corvette (if the interior gets way better) or Viper(if they come out with a new Coupe)

I am really off topic at this point. What can I say, Cars are fun.

-matt

 

[Number9]

I once read an article where Ford plopped a Taurus SHO engine into the Festiva, and it pulled 0-60 in 3.x seconds, to me this was about how exciting the WRX felt, a cheap car with a decent engine does make not for a nice car.

Hi Jonathan. If the car you are referring to was something called a "Shogun," my recollection was that they were NOT 1-dimensional cars and could turn and brake insanely well also, e.g., pulled greater than a 1 lateral G on street tires. OK, it still didn't look great, but would be a hell of a DE car.

As for the Scuby and Mitsu, I think either would be a far superior rainy weather commuter car than any of my current cars. Nice to have choices.

Finally, NSXTASY the WRXSTIABC label cracks me up, but didn't Ford beat you to it with the XR4TILMNOP?

 

[brahtw8]

Hi Jonathan. If the car you are referring to was something called a "Shogun," my recollection was that they were NOT 1-dimensional cars and could turn and brake insanely well also, e.g., pulled greater than a 1 lateral G on street tires. OK, it still didn't look great, but would be a hell of a DE car.

I remember these cars as well. I saw one for sale in the Autoweek classifieds within the last year. The asking price was high twenties/low thirties if I recall correctly. I just found some info on an sho page, here

Those numbers are in line with what I remember, not the 3.x sec. to sixty quoted above. Still, a quick little car with an SHO engine in the back seat.

Actually, it reminds me of another car I saw for sale, a 220 + hp tube-framed Yugo that reportedly was pulling 1.2g and Porsche-killing lap times.

I'll try to get back on topic . . .

I don't think we are ever going to resolve arguments like these. I chose the NSX, as most of you did, for a host of reasons. Many of them are objective and logical, but when it comes down to it the reason is more emotional than logical.

The debate over the superiority of a particular automobile can become little more than semantics. Of course, that is what makes it interesting.

 

[paulviriyapan]

Okay, now this is what I want to know. Looking at the stats the WRX STI (LMNOP) weighs in at 3800 pounds, and has about 300 horsepower (BTW, wasn't there supposed to be a 280 hp limit in Japan?), while the NSX is 3100 (I could be wrong about the weight) and has 290 h.p. How can a car that's 700 pounds heavier, with only 10 more h.p. be quicker? Of course if I am wrong about the stats, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Number9]

The Mitsu and Scuby are listed in most of the current car rags as having curb weights on the order of 3160-3270, depending on the mag. So they both weigh about the same as a late model NSX-T. With AWD, the standing start acceleration should compare fairly well.

 

[NetViper]

The STi only has 280 ps in japan.. and it is a 2.0 L vs a 2.5L engine... however, once you get the car.. they just boost the HP back up... It was in the new Road and Track..

also, the STi might be quicker off the line because of the 4 wheel driver launch.. however, in the 1/4 and above.. i would think the NSX would win..

 

[blurr]

The weights for the EVO and STI are:

EVO VIII no sunroof 3260lbs
EVO VIII w/sunroof 3295lbs

WRXSTI ~3250lbs

EVO's are dynoing ~245hp to the rear wheels (weaker than a '97+ NSX), or on 4 wheel dynos the numbers are 200hp (WRX's score 150ish), but the whole 4 wheel dyno thing is very confusing to me.

You can then spend about $1000 and if you are not running crappy 91 octane California gas you can boost the HP up with the rest of the world, Dyno numbers looking more like 280hp to 300hp at the wheels. My roomate has just started going to the 76 station near here and filling up with half 100octane and half 91 octane. The HP difference is actually very noticable in the EVO. Without the 100 octane gas it is hard to do much HP wise so far on the EVO without detonating. After all it is running 19lbs of boost in that little 4 cylinder engine.

if you are interested:
http://www.evolutionm.net/

 

[nsxtasy]

while the NSX is 3100 (I could be wrong about the weight)

'91 NSX Coupe with 5-speed: 3010 pounds ('92-94 are similar)
'95-96 (don't know offhand)
'97-01 NSX-T with 6-speed: 3164 pounds
'97-01 NSX-T with automatic: 3208 pounds
'97-01 NSX Coupe with 6-speed: 3069 pounds
'97-01 NSX Coupe with automatic: 3113 pounds
'99 Zanardi NSX Coupe with 6-speed: 3015 pounds
'02-03 NSX-T with 6-speed: 3153 pounds
'02-03 NSX-T with automatic: 3197 pounds

 

[paulviriyapan]

Well then I suppose the next big question is either 1) how come those fugly little FOUR DOOR sedans weigh so little (c'mon, they get an extra set of doors and seats) or 2) how come the NSX (two door aluminum body) weighs so much?

 

[LJSB]

NSX has been sold in the U.S. for 13 yrs.
How will you feel about most of theses cars in 13 years?
Will you sit on the side lines for 10-12 years until you can get your hands on a nice affordable used one like many have done with the NSX?
I have no illusions about my NSX. I just like it.

 

[NSX-GUY]

I think B & T said it best........

Chicks (with teeth) don't line up for a ride in a subaru.

 

[8000RPM]

I have no illusions about my NSX. I just like it.

Ditto!

That's my story and I am sticking with it!

 

[NetViper]

One thing abou the EVO.... it might be faster 0-60.. but i looked up an old car and driver that tested 0-150 of the NSX... it did 28 seconds....

in the new motor trend.. the 1 mile in the EVO took i think 36 seconds and it was only at 140 MPH ...

I have to check my stats on the evo.. but it was close to that...

In other words, the EVO gets smoked as the speed goes up..

 

[Edwardo]

You guys don't seem to like the WRX and EVO. I personally think they are sweet cars. For 30k you get a sporty sedan with 300hp(after turning the boost back up). You can pick the kids up in it, auto cross, and rally sport.


If I did not live in Texas, I would consider purchasing one of these cars. (But since I live in Texas we are only allowed to drive sports cars and trucks/SUVs. There are no sedans here )


I would not compare this car to an NSX though. There are two different missions with these cars. I will refrain from saying anything about 0-60 or track times because I do not think these numbers should matter as much as we sometimes make them out. Imagine going flat out on a track in your NSX. Imagine flying around the corners. You are only 46 inches off the ground. The hood is short, and thus the road appears right before your eyes. The sensation of speed is intoxicating. You can hear the high-pitched howl of your high winding, exotic-metal-composed engine right behind your freaking ears. YOU CAN....well I think you get my point.


If you are worried about getting beat by one of the aformentioned sedans I would reccommend spending a bit of time in the forced induction forum. I cannot imagine driving an NSX with over 400HP. I think my stock NSX is fast. I cannot imagine one of those monsters!

 

[Welsh Dragon]

Hi All

As an Ex owner of the ugly cars. The Evo out performs most things on the road.

They are a wonderful car but having owned a EVO V for 2 + years and using it for a lot of track which it was awesome at.
Also it is not a cheap track car at the cost of nearly 30K and after spending £23,000 + on improvements so the car ran at 440BHP and 0-60 where under 4 seconds also the Brembo's for track are not good enough. I went down the AP Route..

The problem with the Subaru & Evo cars is on a Trackday you are never in total control the car does so much that you do get faster than you would in most cars but I felt that I was not learning to improve my driving.

So along came the madness of my Eurocar

http://www.monsterevo.co.uk/Eurocar/Eurocar.JPG

Now about our wonderful NSX I have wanted one since they 1st came out in 1991, I purchased my NSX and then decided to sell my Evo V that everybody who knew me never thought I would never sell.
My NSX 1 is a car that is classed as a Supercar you only see a few now and then in the UK.
As a driving experience it has been wonderful on the tracks it has done so far
Silverstone,Snetterton, Cadwell, Donnington,Oulton Park and on Friday it is doing Croft..
I told everybody I was not using it for Track days
But as I have modded the car a bit with suspension and turn the traction control off I LOVE THE CAR

On the track against the STD Evo/Suburu I hold my own and generally on the corners I am there with them and usually pass them. The evo/suburu are usually faster on acceleration and in the wet dominate everything.
The braking on the NSX is really poor as I am talking to AP to make me some decent brakes I chased Andy Wallace in a Zonda at Silverstone last week as we went into the corners he was able to brake a lot later so I just watched him going sideways in a £350,000 car

There are some Pictures & videos of EVO's, NSX and other cars on my site if anybody wants to have a look

www.monsterevo.co.uk

Dale
NSX 1

 

[wctsao]

As fast as the WRX and EVO are, I think these are geared towards younger folks.

I'm 32 and I feel I'm too old for pocket rockets. I'm sure they are just as fast as the NSX, but I would never consider purchasing one.

I'm more interested in Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus and Pagani automobiles.

 

[Number9]

I'm sure they are just as fast as the NSX, but I would never consider purchasing one.

I think most potential NSX owners wouldn't consider the Evo/Scuby as alternatives because the overall ownership and driving experience is quite different (with the sedans being more practical but far less good looking). What I'm really surprised about is that current NSX owners don't seem to be considering the car as an adjunct to the NSX, particularly in regions where you actually have all four seasons.

 

[nsxtasy]

(But since I live in Texas we are only allowed to drive sports cars and trucks/SUVs.

Since when did they start allowing foreign sports cars there?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Okay, now this is what I want to know. Looking at the stats the WRX STI (LMNOP) weighs in at 3800 pounds, and has about 300 horsepower (BTW, wasn't there supposed to be a 280 hp limit in Japan?), while the NSX is 3100 (I could be wrong about the weight) and has 290 h.p. How can a car that's 700 pounds heavier, with only 10 more h.p. be quicker? Of course if I am wrong about the stats, please let me know. Thanks.

I would have to call it "gearing". 2-3 shift to get to 60 MPH,says something, since an NSX with stock gearing is only at 6K RPM in 2nd at 60 MPH!!

In regard to the comment about weight, sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but the NSX is just not that light, even though it is aluminum . My 1979 911SC was about the same weight, steel body with a 3.0 liter.

My $.02
LarryB

 

[brahtw8]

I think most potential NSX owners wouldn't consider the Evo/Scuby as alternatives because the overall ownership and driving experience is quite different (with the sedans being more practical but far less good looking). What I'm really surprised about is that current NSX owners don't seem to be considering the car as an adjunct to the NSX, particularly in regions where you actually have all four seasons.

I have considered the car as such an 'adjunct'. However, I prefer german engineering, so if I go AWD it will probably be an Audi, likely a Ur S4 or S6 (1st generation). I will give the WRX a chance before I commit. At present, I am driving my 325i year round, with Pilot Alpin snow tires for the winter. It actually works quite nicely in the snow, better than many a front driver with all season tires. YMMV.

 

[burbel]

Since when did they start allowing foreign sports cars there?

That must be a Dallas thing - I know that in other parts of the states sports cars as seen as nothing more than mobile bumps, and in some spots are cause enough for a hangin'. 8P

As for the weight of the NSX, it really isn't as light as I would think, either, but then again it *is* much more solid than I expected. So I can forgive Hona.

 

[NSXBOX]

the US is going through what Australia did nearly 10 years ago the attack of the Hot4's... when the Lancer GSR and WRX was introduced..
unfortunately not much could be said bout the crowd it attracted what u guys in US describe as the rice crew here its the 4cylinder import turbos..

as I've mentioned before the STI, Evo and a 94' NSX cos the same money but myself and friends concur the NSX is an NSX..and an STI is a noisier impreza and an Evo an expensive lancer.

NSX will always have its own crowd and lovers..the haters are those than can't afford it and buy the cheaper alternative and always compare 1/4 mile times as a sign of supremacy...

oh yeah the evo are weapons on the track..much more raw than the STI stock for stock..

 

[wctsao]

One of the guys at work has a WRX and he tells me that there is a lot of turbo lag in that car. Basically floor it, wait and hold on.
That must get frustrating after a while.

 

[dougjgreen]

These threads absolutely amaze me. Surely you realize that the NSX was not designed to max out in straight line sprints. If you want that, buy a Viper. Or, for less money, get an old MR-2 or CRx-Si and get big headers, and force Nitrous into it, and you have yourself a $12,000 Rice Rocket. Oh and don't forget some big-ass wings to keep the thing on the ground, and some shiny chrome wheels to impress the high school girls.

It's time to start appreciating the NSX for exactly what it is. The ultimate 2-seat road touring sports car. I personally am GLAD that an NSX is not ULTRA fast in a 1/4 mile sprint, because it keeps these teen dragsters from saving up their Extacy revenues to buy one.

The experience of opening up an NSX on a winding back-country mountain road, and you the driver being one with the car, is not something that any of these pocket dragsters can even dream of replicating. If you want this from a stock, street-legal vehicle, you are looking at a short list of candidates: The NSX, a Porsche 993 or 996, and a Ferrari 360. And, BTW, the NSX is the most reliable and comfortable of the bunch. It may not get to 60, or even 100 as fast as some other car in a straight line, but on a real road, with turns in it, the whole equation changes. And, BTW, once the car is at 100, it can stay there through a whole lot more twisty turns than anything else.

The 1/4 mile straight line sprint was just NOT an important design goal of the NSX. If you want that, call Don Prudhomme, and have him build you a Funny Car. I promise you that even the Vipers will cower away and hide. But that's not the point of an NSX. It's no more valid to moan about this than it is to complain that the NSX doesn't transport 300 people across the ocean as well as a Boeing 777 does, or that it can't haul 10 tons of freight as well as a Kenworth Diesel Truck. If you are looking to win sprints off the line at traffic lights, go elsewhere. If you want a true driver's car, at the highest level, without any substantial compromise in comfort or reliability from your family sedan, then get an NSX.

Sure, technology allows a sedan like an M5 or E55 to now be as fast as an NSX. Big deal. I own an E55, and I can damn sure tell you that even though it's as fast or faster than an NSX in a straight line, the experience of driving it can't TOUCH an NSX. I would equate it to driving a rocket-powered living room encased in a Bank Vault. If I want the awareness that I'm driving, and driving fast but in complete control, put me in an NSX any time.

- Doug Green

'95 NSX-T
'02 Mercedes AMG E55
'01 Toyota MR-2 Spyder

 

[Joel]

All this talk of speed reminds me of one thing:
I bought the NSX because it's sexy, not fast.

And that fact alone will beat out the WRX or STi or Neon any day of the week...and twice on Sunday.