Can someone help me choose a wheel size? Specifically for Advans

[Jinks]

I have a 91 lowered on BC coilovers. I'm currently running 18/19 set up with 275 rear tires and 215 front tires with a 5 mm spacer up front.
While I love the look of the 18/19 set up, the car handles like shit on rough roads. I was thinking of downsizing to 17/18 for more rubber. I am about to pull the trigger on a set of Advan RG-3 and I was hoping I could get a push here in the right direction. I plan to swap to KW coils in the very near future. So if anyone is running Advans in 18/19 with KW's please chime in. Or, if you run Advan 17/18 on BC please chime in. I'm on the fence like a stray cat. I have found mixed reviews on here about differences.

I currently run nitto 555 tires and have been happy with them. But after putting new Michelin rubber on the mdx, I am buying nothing but michelins this time. They are quiet and improve the ride so much, even for a suv with magnetic dampers. So, in a nut shell I see Michelin pilot super sports available only in 18/19 set up.
Please help me decide here fellow x'ers.
Thanks primers.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

What 18/19 wheels do you have now? Weight has a lot to do with it. Heavy cast wheels tend to ride worse than light forged wheels of the same size because the suspension is working harder. More sidewall is not always the answer but will help in general because of compliance. The type of tire will help too. You are right about PSS and 225/275 f/r should be an improvement in 18/19 but for more assurance you can do the advan 17/18.

 

[Hapa88]

Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't really in a 18/19 size for the NSX. The 225 is both wider and taller than the 215/35/18, so you'll probably run into rubbing issues and maybe some TCS issues if you go that route.

Going down to a 17/18 opens up a few other sticker tire options but I'm not sure that it will solve your "the car handles like shit on rough roads" problem. For that I would suggest a car designed for rallying like the Subaru WRX STi or maybe even a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO.

 

[Jinks]

What 18/19 wheels do you have now? Weight has a lot to do with it. Heavy cast wheels tend to ride worse than light forged wheels of the same size because the suspension is working harder. More sidewall is not always the answer but will help in general because of compliance. The type of tire will help too. You are right about PSS and 225/275 f/r should be an improvement in 18/19 but for more assurance you can do the advan 17/18.

I have a set of those Esm LM replica wheels. I'm not sure of the weight but they are a hell of a lot lighter than the 3 piece lowenhart wheels that I replaced. I think the car handled better actually with the lowenhart wheels though.
My plans in the future are to start tracking the car some. I notice you have had a lot of nice wheels. Which ones were your favorite to run?

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Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't really in a 18/19 size for the NSX. The 225 is both wider and taller than the 215/35/18, so you'll probably run into rubbing issues and maybe some TCS issues if you go that route.

Going down to a 17/18 opens up a few other sticker tire options but I'm not sure that it will solve your "the car handles like shit on rough roads" problem. For that I would suggest a car designed for rallying like the Subaru WRX STi or maybe even a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO.

I thought the pss were not available in a 17? I could be wrong though. I have not really shopped for the tires just yet.
I used to have a 225 up front. It rubbed and cracked my fenders. So, no go on a 225. I am just looking for a little more cushion on rough roads.

 

[docjohn]

rides like sh$t could be alot of things...heavy wheel tire combos don't help.... shocks that can't handle spring rates or are weak don't help..as hapa88 said there are plenty of great tires available in 17/18 combos....any wheels under 20 lbs each will be fine.

 

[Jinks]

rides like sh$t could be alot of things...heavy wheel tire combos don't help.... shocks that can't handle spring rates or are weak don't help..as hapa88 said there are plenty of great tires available in 17/18 combos....any wheels under 20 lbs each will be fine.

My coilovers have about 1500 miles on them with 10/10 spring rates. It actually rides and handles awesome when roads are smooth to moderately smooth. Bumpy highways and roads though it goes downhill quickly in ride comfort.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

What were your plans for sizing on the PSS up front? The only one that fits is a 225/35/18 and it's been hard to come by. I had to pull strings at my discount tire to get them after months!

Neither of those are good wheels IMO. The ESM are cheap, heavy, weak replicas and lowenharts are usually heavy show off wheels for euro cars. If you are going to track especially you might want to look into some of the established Japanese brands like rays/volks which are my favorite considering they have a foundry so they even control their own metallurgy, or Advan wheels if you don't want to spend for forged wheels. I would advise you to get 17/18 if you can live with the looks (not as good as 18/19 IMO). But since you have coilovers the first thing I would advise you to do is play with the damper settings to make them softer and see if that fixes your problem. They could simply be set too stiff for your taste.

 

[Jinks]

What were your plans for sizing on the PSS up front? The only one that fits is a 225/35/18 and it's been hard to come by. I had to pull strings at my discount tire to get them after months!

Neither of those are good wheels IMO. The ESM are cheap, heavy, weak replicas and lowenharts are usually heavy show off wheels for euro cars. If you are going to track especially you might want to look into some of the established Japanese brands like rays/volks which are my favorite considering they have a foundry so they even control their own metallurgy, or Advan wheels if you don't want to spend for forged wheels. I would advise you to get 17/18 if you can live with the looks (not as good as 18/19 IMO). But since you have coilovers the first thing I would advise you to do is play with the damper settings to make them softer and see if that fixes your problem. They could simply be set too stiff for your taste.

Yeah I have spent months trying to fine tune the coils. I like 10 clicks from full soft the best.
What is the recommended sidewall for 17/18? Is it 45 front-40 rear?

 

[robbiedawg]

Yeah I have spent months trying to fine tune the coils. I like 10 clicks from full soft the best.
What is the recommended sidewall for 17/18? Is it 45 front-40 rear?

it's 215/40-17 front,and 255 or 265/35-18 rear.i would love some Michelin pss's,have them on my other car,but they are not available in our sizes,but there are some other good choices.
as for wheels,i agree with Nero Tenebre,lighter is better.my Volks weigh 13.64 f and 17.27 r according to the distributor,which is real light,and that helps in a lot of ways:ride,handling and responsiveness.

 

[Jinks]

I have decided. Beauty over function. I got a set of RG 3 in 18/19 set up in gloss black. To bad I have to wait months for them, but of well. Anyone here running continental extreme contact tires? They have excellent ride comfort reviews from tire rack, which is what I am looking for RIDE COMFORT with good grip to boot.
I will not be doing Yokohama tires, they are garbage in my mind. Owned several sets for several cars in my life. They wear faster and are noisier than any other tire I have ever owned.

 

[nsx711]

I run Continental extreme contact DW 225/40-18 on my other car and find them rather noisy. I don't think any low profile tire is going to provide ride comfort on its own.

 

[nsxtasy]

In the sizes you'll want for 18"/19" wheels - 215/35-18 and 265/30-19 or 275/30-19 - there's only one really decent tire available in the U.S. and that's the Sumitomo HTR Z III. It's not one of the supersticky "extreme performance" tires, but none of those are available in these sizes. That's why 17"/17" or 17"/18" are a better bet for those interested strictly in performance.

 

[stuntman]

My coilovers have about 1500 miles on them with 10/10 spring rates. It actually rides and handles awesome when roads are smooth to moderately smooth. Bumpy highways and roads though it goes downhill quickly in ride comfort.

You're describing cheap dampers with poor valving. If ride quality is that high in your priority list, consider new dampers.

You really need to read this:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...LY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

 

[RYU]

This might help with your tire decision.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...re-Star-Spec-AD08-R-Ecsta-LE-or-s-Drive/page2

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My coilovers have about 1500 miles on them with 10/10 spring rates. It actually rides and handles awesome when roads are smooth to moderately smooth. Bumpy highways and roads though it goes downhill quickly in ride comfort.

Yeah I have spent months trying to fine tune the coils. I like 10 clicks from full soft the best.
What is the recommended sidewall for 17/18? Is it 45 front-40 rear?

You sound like me many years ago. Beauty over function. I'm man enough to admit that but it cost me a pretty penny throughout the years. These days i'd much prefer to avoid the car shows in lieu of a track day or a nice canyon run or even a nice drive up the coast.

I just realized I didn't respond to your question on my build thread. I'm on Continental DW tires. I sometimes forget they are summer tires. Well, they are very close to being All Season tires in terms of grip. They communicate decently in terms of slip angle tolerance but the sidewall is so damn soft it makes the steering feel noticeably numb. I like them for the street since wet grip and water channeling is pretty darn good. I went thru a recent storm in socal and the drive was very confident inspiring in deep puddle, high speed conditions. So the trade off is worth it if wet grip, and comfort is important for you. It's decently quiet too, MUCH quieter than the StarSpecs Z1 (not sure about the Z2s since I haven't driven on them yet). My tires are virtually new with about 80% or more of grip left. I have a mild track day on them which you saw in the video. I'll consider selling them for cheap if you're interested.

In terms of your dampers... you're experiencing a classic problem with the cheaper coilovers. I've noticed that you pay for sophisticated damping but moreso the range of adjustability. Cheap coilovers can operate decent in a very small window (sounds like yours is setup for smooth roads, higher spring rate, which is the easiest to setup for it seems). More expensive dampers can be setup to ride well and also provide adequate damping control in track or aggressive driving conditions. Really really good dampers can be setup to ride like a new compliant Cadillac for that wknd trip up the coast with the lady and be setup to manage different track conditions and manipulate vehicle handling dynamics on-the-fly (without changing out springs or ride height to an extent). Expensive dampers give you an equivalent of like 3 dampers in one. That's where the value comes in. Guys who have garage queens, or go to car shows, or drive to the grocery store, or even guys who have purpose built track cars really do not need the versatility. I'd argue, they'd be wasting their money on a set of top end dampers if they have only one purpose for the car and are not competing.

 

[nsxtasy]

I'm on Continental DW tires. I sometimes forget they are summer tires. Well, they are very close to being All Season tires in terms of grip. They communicate decently in terms of slip angle tolerance but the sidewall is so damn soft it makes the steering feel noticeably numb. I like them for the street since wet grip and water channeling is pretty darn good. I went thru a recent storm in socal and the drive was very confident inspiring in deep puddle, high speed conditions. So the trade off is worth it if wet grip, and comfort is important for you. It's decently quiet too, MUCH quieter than the StarSpecs Z1 (not sure about the Z2s since I haven't driven on them yet). My tires are virtually new with about 80% or more of grip left. I have a mild track day on them which you saw in the video. I'll consider selling them for cheap if you're interested.

The Continental ExtremeContact DW has been an excellent tire in the "maximum performance summer tire" category. And one of the advantages of this category, contrasted with the "extreme performance" category and not mentioned in this post, is that the treadlife is much better. However, this tire has been discontinued in the most NSX-friendly sizes for street use. So beware buying any unless you have a plan for what you'll do if you can't get more.

 

[Jinks]

You're describing cheap dampers with poor valving. If ride quality is that high in your priority list, consider new dampers.

You really need to read this:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArtic...LY-select-and-size-TIRES-for-PERFORMANCE.aspx

Hey Stuntman,
I have actually read that article and many others on motorIQ. Tires are everything. I wish I still lived in Florida where roads were smooth.

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The Continental ExtremeContact DW has been an excellent tire in the "maximum performance summer tire" category. And one of the advantages of this category, contrasted with the "extreme performance" category and not mentioned in this post, is that the treadlife is much better. However, this tire has been discontinued in the most NSX-friendly sizes for street use. So beware buying any unless you have a plan for what you'll do if you can't get more.

I see a few sets left online. They actually come very close in reviews to Michelin pss tires in ride comfort and performance.

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This might help with your tire decision.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...re-Star-Spec-AD08-R-Ecsta-LE-or-s-Drive/page2

- - - Updated - - -




You sound like me many years ago. Beauty over function. I'm man enough to admit that but it cost me a pretty penny throughout the years. These days i'd much prefer to avoid the car shows in lieu of a track day or a nice canyon run or even a nice drive up the coast.

I just realized I didn't respond to your question on my build thread. I'm on Continental DW tires. I sometimes forget they are summer tires. Well, they are very close to being All Season tires in terms of grip. They communicate decently in terms of slip angle tolerance but the sidewall is so damn soft it makes the steering feel noticeably numb. I like them for the street since wet grip and water channeling is pretty darn good. I went thru a recent storm in socal and the drive was very confident inspiring in deep puddle, high speed conditions. So the trade off is worth it if wet grip, and comfort is important for you. It's decently quiet too, MUCH quieter than the StarSpecs Z1 (not sure about the Z2s since I haven't driven on them yet). My tires are virtually new with about 80% or more of grip left. I have a mild track day on them which you saw in the video. I'll consider selling them for cheap if you're interested.

In terms of your dampers... you're experiencing a classic problem with the cheaper coilovers. I've noticed that you pay for sophisticated damping but moreso the range of adjustability. Cheap coilovers can operate decent in a very small window (sounds like yours is setup for smooth roads, higher spring rate, which is the easiest to setup for it seems). More expensive dampers can be setup to ride well and also provide adequate damping control in track or aggressive driving conditions. Really really good dampers can be setup to ride like a new compliant Cadillac for that wknd trip up the coast with the lady and be setup to manage different track conditions and manipulate vehicle handling dynamics on-the-fly (without changing out springs or ride height to an extent). Expensive dampers give you an equivalent of like 3 dampers in one. That's where the value comes in. Guys who have garage queens, or go to car shows, or drive to the grocery store, or even guys who have purpose built track cars really do not need the versatility. I'd argue, they'd be wasting their money on a set of top end dampers if they have only one purpose for the car and are not competing.

Yes, I totally agree. I have gone over and over this. My next step is a set of K-dubs. Surprisingly though, Shad himself was actually surprised on how my BC coils performed during tests. They are definitely a bargain. But agreed, they are bouncy and hard to get perfectly compliant. They are truely a entry level coil. But now, it's time to step it up.
Too late on the wheel size though. I have placed the order on the 18/19 Advans. Hopefully in a year or so we have more tire options. Has anyone ran the Michelin pss with fender liners in 18"? I can actually get a set. I just don't want to modify fenders and stuff to fit them. My original michelins on the mdx lasted over 70,000 miles!!! They were discontinued then a new version was out, I forget the name of them of hand but wow, they transformed the car. Better braking, handling, better everything!

 

[nsxtasy]

Has anyone ran the Michelin pss with fender liners in 18"? I can actually get a set. I just don't want to modify fenders and stuff to fit them. My original michelins on the mdx lasted over 70,000 miles!!! They were discontinued then a new version was out, I forget the name of them of hand but wow, they transformed the car. Better braking, handling, better everything!

Don't make the mistake of thinking tires made by the same company are necessarily going to be similar. Every major tire company makes a lot of different tires with design objectives that vary from tire to tire - racetrack tires designed for maximum grip through corners, street tires designed for family cars so they need to last long and not be terribly expensive, tires for winter conditions, etc. So just because a particular Michelin tire is a good choice for an SUV, doesn't mean that a Michelin tire is necessarily the best choice for some other car.

Don't focus on the tire manufacturer. Decide what sizes you need, consider your objectives (performance, price, treadlife, seasonal weather, etc), and identify the tire available in those sizes that will best meet those objectives.

As for the Pilot Super Sport, I would not recommend them for an NSX with 18"/19" wheels. They don't come in EITHER of the best sizes for a '91 (215/35-18 and 275/30-19), so you'll have to go larger in the front with 225/35-18, and in the back you'll be stuck with 265/30-19 (this will cause a problem with the TCS) or 265/35-19 (which will slow the car's acceleration because they're so much larger in diameter than stock). If you have to keep the 18"/19" wheels, stick with the Sumitomo HTR Z III in 215/35-18 and 275/30-19.

 

[Jinks]

Don't make the mistake of thinking tires made by the same company are necessarily going to be similar. Every major tire company makes a lot of different tires with design objectives that vary from tire to tire - racetrack tires designed for maximum grip through corners, street tires designed for family cars so they need to last long and not be terribly expensive, tires for winter conditions, etc. So just because a particular Michelin tire is a good choice for an SUV, doesn't mean that a Michelin tire is necessarily the best choice for some other car.

Don't focus on the tire manufacturer. Decide what sizes you need, consider your objectives (performance, price, treadlife, seasonal weather, etc), and identify the tire available in those sizes that will best meet those objectives.

As for the Pilot Super Sport, I would not recommend them for an NSX with 18"/19" wheels. They don't come in EITHER of the best sizes for a '91 (215/35-18 and 275/30-19), so you'll have to go larger in the front with 225/35-18, and in the back you'll be stuck with 265/30-19 (this will cause a problem with the TCS) or 265/35-19 (which will slow the car's acceleration because they're so much larger in diameter than stock). If you have to keep the 18"/19" wheels, stick with the Sumitomo HTR Z III in 215/35-18 and 275/30-19.

Good to know. I was thinking about running a 265 in the rear so this is good info. I currently run nitto nt555 in a 215/18 275/19 spec. They are actually really good tires. I know there are better but I'd buy them over yoko's any day.

 

[stuntman]

Huh.... 225/35-18 must be a new PSS size. There's not much info on that size at Tire rack. I'll have to use a generic calculator to find the OD and how it will work with TC/ABS with a 265/30 or 275/30 rear. Seems like a great option.

 

[Jinks]

Huh.... 225/35-18 must be a new PSS size. There's not much info on that size at Tire rack. I'll have to use a generic calculator to find the OD and how it will work with TC/ABS with a 265/30 or 275/30 rear. Seems like a great option.

You guys are awesome and knowledgable. I am trying not to be condescending here, but tire rack is not God. There are sizes in 225/35/18 in a Michelin pss from multiple suppliers I know. They are even listed in michelins website. They also make a 275/30/19. My question is, who's got em?

 

[nsxtasy]

Good to know. I was thinking about running a 265 in the rear so this is good info. I currently run nitto nt555 in a 215/18 275/19 spec. They are actually really good tires. I know there are better but I'd buy them over yoko's any day.

Well, again, it all depends on the specific tire, not the brand. For example, Yokohama makes the Advan Neova AD08R (but not in 18"/19" sizes), and it's an outstanding "extreme performance" tire, way better than the NT555. I'm not sure whether Nitto uses the same performance category terminology as the Tire Rack, but they call the NT555 an "ultra high performance" tire, which means it's in the same category as the Yokohama S.drive, and a big step down from the "max performance" category represented by the Sumitomo HTR Z III.

Huh.... 225/35-18 must be a new PSS size. There's not much info on that size at Tire rack. I'll have to use a generic calculator to find the OD and how it will work with TC/ABS with a 265/30 or 275/30 rear. Seems like a great option.

Well, a lot of 225/35-18 tires rub on the NSX fender liners, even on those with stock suspension and even more so on lowered NSX's. Here's how the Pilot Super Sport sizes compare with the 215 on a '91-93 NSX:

Stock: 205/50-15 and 225/50-16, rear is 7.8% larger
215/35-18 and 275/30-19, rear is 6.6% larger
225/35-18 and 265/30-19, rear is 4.4% larger
225/35-18 and 275/35-19, rear is 9.8% larger

Remember, the Pilot Super Sport doesn't come in a 275/30-19, so even though you're going bigger in the front than the usual 18"/19" sizes, for a 30 profile rear you need to go with the smaller 265/30-19 in the rear. That will cause TCS problems - maybe not immediately, but as the rear tires start to wear down, for sure. (*** EDIT *** - Apparently it DOES come in a 275/30-19, as noted in my follow-up post below. And the 275/30-19, used with the 225/35-18 front, would probably not cause TCS problems. But there's still a possible rubbing issue with that size. I know most other 225/35-18 tires will rub on the NSX front, but you'd have to try out the Pilot Super Sport to verify whether or not it does.)

As I mentioned, you could also get 275/35-19 in the rear. However, even though that will be okay for the TCS, that's really quite a bit larger in diameter than stock (by about 7 percent). Even if it doesn't rub (and it might), the effect is like putting taller gearing on your car, which will hurt acceleration.

 

[RYU]

Would you consider the Pilot Super Sport a direct competitor with the Z2 and/or the AD08R? Or is more like a NT05?

 

[Jinks]

Well, again, it all depends on the specific tire, not the brand. For example, Yokohama makes the Advan Neova AD08R (but not in 18"/19" sizes), and it's an outstanding "extreme performance" tire, way better than the NT555. I'm not sure whether Nitto uses the same performance category terminology as the Tire Rack, but they call the NT555 an "ultra high performance" tire, which means it's in the same category as the Yokohama S.drive, and a big step down from the "max performance" category represented by the Sumitomo HTR Z III.


Well, a lot of 225/35-18 tires rub on the NSX fender liners, even on those with stock suspension and even more so on lowered NSX's. Here's how the Pilot Super Sport sizes compare with the 215 on a '91-93 NSX:

Stock: 205/50-15 and 225/50-16, rear is 7.8% larger
215/35-18 and 275/30-19, rear is 6.6% larger
225/35-18 and 265/30-19, rear is 4.4% larger
225/35-18 and 275/35-19, rear is 9.8% larger

Remember, the Pilot Super Sport doesn't come in a 275/30-19, so even though you're going bigger in the front than the usual 18"/19" sizes, for a 30 profile rear you need to go with the smaller 265/30-19 in the rear. That will cause TCS problems - maybe not immediately, but as the rear tires start to wear down, for sure.

As I mentioned, you could also get 275/35-19 in the rear. However, even though that will be okay for the TCS, that's really quite a bit larger in diameter than stock (by about 7 percent). Even if it doesn't rub (and it might), the effect is like putting taller gearing on your car, which will hurt acceleration. Either way, I don't think this is a good option at all.

As started before, I am not looking to argue as I may very well be wrong. But here is what I have pulled from Michelins website as in stock for pss tires. I also have a tire vendor who can get these sizes.

 

[nsxtasy]

Would you consider the Pilot Super Sport a direct competitor with the Z2 and/or the AD08R? Or is more like a NT05?

I'm not all that familiar with the NT05. But the Tire Rack classifies the Pilot Super Sport as a maximum performance summer tire, which means it's a good-performing longer-lasting summer tire, comparable to the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 or the Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole Position. NOT an extreme performance (stickier, faster-wearing) tire like the ZII Star Spec or the AD08R. This is supported by the 300 treadwear rating, which is common for a max performance tire, not an extreme performance tire (which typically has treadwear ratings in the 140-200 range). HTH.

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As started before, I am not looking to argue as I may very well be wrong. But here is what I have pulled from Michelins website as in stock for pss tires. I also have a tire vendor who can get these sizes.

Wow, that's odd. I swear there was no 275/30-19 in the Pilot Super Sport on the Tire Rack website yesterday. But sure enough, they're there today. So either I was reading the chart wrong - it's possible - or they just started carrying them.

Here's how that size works with the 225/35-18 front for the TCS:

225/35-18 and 275/30-19, rear is 5.4% larger

That would probably not be a problem for the TCS. So the only problem would be the possible rubbing of the front tires on the fender liners, which would typically occur at full lock.

 

[Jinks]

I'm not all that familiar with the NT05. But the Tire Rack classifies the Pilot Super Sport as a maximum performance summer tire, which means it's a good-performing longer-lasting summer tire, comparable to the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 or the Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole Position. NOT an extreme performance (stickier, faster-wearing) tire like the ZII Star Spec or the AD08R. This is supported by the 300 treadwear rating, which is common for a max performance tire, not an extreme performance tire (which typically has treadwear ratings in the 140-200 range). HTH.

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Wow, that's odd. I swear there was no 275/30-19 in the Pilot Super Sport on the Tire Rack website yesterday. But sure enough, they're there today. So either I was reading the chart wrong - it's possible - or they just started carrying them.

Here's how that size works with the 225/35-18 front for the TCS:

225/35-18 and 275/30-19, rear is 5.4% larger

That would probably not be a problem for the TCS. So the only problem would be the possible rubbing of the front tires on the fender liners, which would typically occur at full lock.

Tire rack is crap. They list what they have in stock and want to sell. Just my opinion. The one thing they got is awesome reviews and testing but they seem to only test what's trending. But yessssss ladies and gents. Michelin pss come in a 225/35/18 and a 275/30/19