Cam plugs weaping oil...

[Bilulan]

Anyone had this problem recently?

During my last oil change, the tech noted that the cam plugs were weaping oil, although, I don't have any oil spots on the garage floor. He quoted me about 10 or so hours of labor for this repair. Does that sound about right? I think he estimated the overall job at about $1100 (w/ $80 labor rate.) (ouch!)

I did a quick FAQ search and noted some of the posts about switching to synthetic oil and how it reveals this problem (I use synthetic). Someone posted a repair cost of around $400.

I realize oil leaks never get any better, but if the weaping is not enough to make a drip spot or lower the oil levels at this time, is there any immediate negative effect of waiting a little bit before having this repair done in a few months? (performance loss or smooth running?)

thanks...

 

[DanO]

10 hours sounds about 7 hours too long. A good mechanic should be able to do this in 3 hours or less. There are lots of threads regarding this issue in this forum and Larry may know of some tricks that make this a quick procedure.

DanO

 

[dlongo]

I have the same problem and have read all the threads on it. I decided to just live with it until I have some other reason to pull the heads, so I would get this done in conjunction. There is no performance or reliability issue I am aware of, just keep an eye on it in case it gets worse.

Dave

 

[Larry Bastanza]

There is no need to "pull" the heads!!!!. The original procedure calls for removing the cams, which I believe is where the 10 hours comes from, since the timing belt is about 7 and add a few to remove the cams and change the cam plugs and seals.

However, you can do this without removing the timing belt if you ONLY want to change the cam plugs and not the cam seals.

Since the result of doing it this way will mean a valve adjustment, (actually any way you do it means a valve adjustment) I think 3 hours for the whole job is if you are very experienced at it. (Maybe for Barney or MB and the like). So if a tech said to me 4 hours, I would still think that is realistic.

So let's say 4 hours at $80 worst case. Sounds like $320 labor + parts, let's say $100 for 4 cam plugs and a VC gasket set. So the "around $400" sounds about right.


HTH,
LarryB

 

[dlongo]

There is no need to "pull" the heads!!!!.

Sure... if you want to do it the "easy" way

Actually, I said that because I plan to have stronger headgasket and pistons installed this winter in preparation for FI.

 

[SCS2k]

Actually I just had the exact same problem (replace cam seals) repaired at Mark Basch's shop. The bill with timing belt, water pump etc was about $1200.

 

[daveh]

Hey there,seepage from the cam plugs is no big deal .They ALL seep.It is a big job if it's done properly.The t-belt tension should be released and the cams should push the cradles up enough to sneak out and then in the new plugs .That's NOT the right way to do it but it's the way most of us do it ,You can rip yhe valve covers of a non air injection car in about 20 minutes but the rest of the job is very intricate .It's easy to cut the plugs on the cam cradle if it's not far enough up.I,ve worked for Acura since '92 and we charge 3.1 hrs. warranty time for a valve adjust.I'd charge 8 hours for cam plugs.If they were done the RIGHT way .torquing down the cradle to spec and in the correct sequence is VERY important .My cam plugs were seeping the day I bought the car.They still are.let 'em bleed .

 

[Larry Bastanza]

dlongo,

Great response LOL.........................

daveh,

Sounds like we are saying about the same thing. However, why do you feel the shorter procedure is the "wrong" way?

I guess you could say it is not "by the book", but the fact is there is no procedure in the service manual for this. The cam plugs are not even mentioned during the reinstallation procedure for the cams, and cam plug replacement as a stand alone job is not mentioned either.

Oh, just for completeness: What is your time estimate for the "wrong" way??

As always, appreciate your advice,

Thanks,
LarryB

 

[daveh]

Hey Larry.The reason I think it's not right is that I don't see how the cam can sit in the same place it was on the cradle after being raised by the valve spring/t-belt tension.also I think it could gall the journals .I'd say abot 3-4 hours for the wrong way!!!.JMHO.Never seen it on an nsx but i've seen about 3 siezed cam's in 13 years of Acura work. ALL just had a cam plug!! all 2.7L legends.regards.DaveH

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Thanks David

LarryB

 

[I Grok NSX]

I thought I had the same problem, but after close inspection, it was only the valve cover gasket. Look very closely at where the leak is coming from.

I bought the replacement cam seals (before I knew it was a valve cover gasket problem) and the if you look at the way they (the cam seals) are designed, I don't see how they could leak.

 

[nsxhk]

I just found out I have the same minor cam seal leakage too, but NOT to a point of dripping oil onto the ground. Will this leakage turns into a river of oil and cause major damage to the engine? Will I still be able to track the car or shoud I fix it before I go to a track meet?

I understand that replacing the cam seals is quite a big job. My mechanic said the engine needs to be dropped in order to perform the cam seals replacement and I was just thinking.... since the top part of the engine will be in pieces, what other things can I do to the engine (preventive maintenance-wise) while it's wide open? Any other seals or gaskets need to be replaced on a 12 years old car? port and polish maybe? It's too bad that I just changed my timing belt and water pump not long ago


Henry.

 

[dlongo]

hi nsxhk

it's too bad you missed the chance to do this fix when you had your timing belt done, but it's not time to go engine rebuilding either (unless you're like me, and just change gaskets out for fun )

My professional opinion, as a mechanical engineer and ameteur mechanic, is that you put a lawn chair in your garage, sit down, crack open a beer, and admire your beautiful car "serenity now... serenity now"... don't you feel better?

From what I have read here, this is such a common problem that I think some people have even called light cam seal weepage "normal". It may get worse, to the point of leaving oil drops on your garage floor. I think keeping the garage floor clean is the biggest motivation for getting this fixed. So track your car and have fun. Unless it is a steady drip, your car will not fail track inspection because of this.

And as others have pointed out here, the engine does not have to come out, nor do the heads have to come off, to replace the cam seals.

regards,
Dave

 

[MJK]

Any horror stories of doing this 'the easy way'?

I am thinking about giving it a try.