Call 911 CART has stopped breathing!

[Dr.Honda]

Took my son to the CART race at RA last weekend, the race was just as bad as the weather. Still, I personally prefer road racing to oval tracks and nothing compares to the sound of Champ and F1 cars. It's painful to watch road racing die a slow
death in the United States, I fondly remember the heyday of
Can-Am and Trans-Am in the '70's. I will miss CART, hope that the American LeMans series takes off.

 

[Brian2by2]

Tiger, I dont believe they have been involved in the engineering, however, most of the top name drivers for particular manufacturers are very active in the designing and testing of the car and their input is typically held in high regards.

As mentioned above, Bill Elliott commented after BrickYard that the changes to the Dodge Intrepid were for the worse. Most likely, there will be a change then in the next few months or so because it was Bill Elliott that said that.

I do know that MOST drivers are very very involved in the technical aspect of their team. Bill Elliott and his brother Mike own a shop in Dawsonville, Ga. where they build their engines. They can both be seen at the shop as well as the other employees quite frequently. I since think the shop has moved though.

Anyhow, yes, NASCAR drivers are very involved in the cars, however, not so much as open-wheels because body designs/engineering is very restricted by NASCAR.

 

[Ponyboy]

I think any one who has a general knowledge of both sports would agree that pitting strategy comes into play much much more in NASCAR than in open-wheel.

I think you should watch an F1 race and make a better judgement on how much pit strategy determines the outcome in an F1 race. You minimize it's importance too much. Especially considering the vastness of variables in an F1 race (fuel economy, bad tires, weather, wear, etc.)

As far as Gordon racing open-wheel, didn't he used to run opens a while back? or he was going to? i don't know, that sticks in my mind for some reason.

I think he did Sprint cars awhile when he started. Are those considered open wheeled? I, for one, would really like to seem him try CART or F1. Gordon joining CART would be just the thing to get it jump started. Hmmm...

 

[ss_md]

I think he did Sprint cars awhile when he started. Are those considered open wheeled? I, for one, would really like to seem him try CART or F1. Gordon joining CART would be just the thing to get it jump started. Hmmm...

Robbie Gordon used to race Champcars several years ago. He still does stints in IRL at the Indy 500.

 

[Brian2by2]

No it wouldn't...Gordon fans would abandon him and follow some other Chevy driver in a heart beat...they'd scream Traitor. You must remember, NASCAR vs. F1 (open wheel) is like the North vs. the South...NASCAR being the south. Most NASCAR fans are more fans of NASCAR then they are of a particular driver.

Of course the "Oh Jeff's sooo hot" fans would follow him, but thats, what, less than 10%?

It would do something, but it's not what you really need.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

http://www.miamirace.com/HTML/EventInfo/CourseInfo/index.php


http://www.miamirace.com/Graphics/CourseInfo/GPA-01B Map.pdf

 

[Brian2by2]

hmmm...sounds like it could be fun...

 

[Dennis in SE PA]

ALMS and Grand-Am Suck eh?

If you were a Racers Group Fan and had been at the 24 Hours of Daytona this year you would know different.. Michael Shrom crosses the finish line 1st overall in #66 a GT car! I know these people. I was there! It was absolutely magic! My dream has come true, how about your's?

 

[sjs]

Too many things here to comment on them all so I'll stick to my favorite. Most pro racing is more show than race these days for the obvious reason that it pays better. In that sense NASCAR is truly cutting edge. The fact that so many different drivers and teams win is only proof that the difference in both drives and cars are now less important than "strategy", pit stops and pure chance. I'm not saying it isn't fast and dangerous, but I think that the rules and equipment have leveled the field to the point where any decent driver in one of the better cars really can win on any given day. I don't call that racing. It's a parade with full-course yellows so the slugs can catch up. But it's not just NASCAR, many series add weight and change the rules from race to race to ensure closer competition. NASCAR just has it down to a science and now spends all it's effort marketing driver personalities rather than true competition.

Today, true racing only exists at the lowest levels. So when someone complains that a race was like an SCCA regional, I say "sorry I missed it".

 

[Tom Larkins]

I think he did Sprint cars awhile when he started. Are those considered open wheeled? I, for one, would really like to seem him try CART or F1. Gordon joining CART would be just the thing to get it jump started. Hmmm...

You are correct, Jeff Gordon ran karts, 3/4 midgets & USAC sprint cars and they are considered open wheelers.

Personally, Gordon along with a few others in NASCAR I feel could make a reasonable transition from stock to open wheel racing. I would compare them to what many coaches in the NFL say when drafting a player. They look at the athletic ability more than a skill b/c you can train a great athlete to play anywhere. Not that race drivers are athletes....that another topic.

 

[Brian2by2]

Race drivers most certainly are athletes. Period.

Originally posted by sjs
I'm not saying it isn't fast and dangerous, but I think that the rules and equipment have leveled the field to the point where any decent driver in one of the better cars really can win on any given day. I don't call that racing.

So let me get this straight: you consider one driver dominating the series racing? Hmmm...I think its a good thing when a no namer can come up and win a race...makes it more interesting. NASCAR is no longer dominated by Earnhardt (Obviously ), Elliott, Jarrett, Wallace, Martin, Stewart, Gordon, or Labontes...It's so much leveler now, especially with these awesome newbies such as Busch and Johnson.

If you want to see some competitive racing on the track and in the pits, IMO you should be watching NASCAR. Very very rarely, especially in the days of restrictor plate racing, do you see a leader taking a HUGE margin of victory in NASCAR and to me: thats competition!!

Another thing that irritates me: these cars are so incredibly safe compared to most. From the HANS device to the roof flaps, to the advanced roll cages...All this safety kind of makes me wonder why they won't take the restrictor plates off and let them do some racing!!! Daytona, Talladega, Atlanta, Michigan...they all scream for 200-220mph laps!! I find it sad that the fastest lap in Nascar history was 212.819 (I think), set by Bill Elliott in hmmm was it 1987?!?! Thats over 16 years ago!!! Cars should be getting faster! Had restrictor plates not been applied to the cars, there is no doubt in my mind these bad boys would be going over 220 by now on the superspeedways.

Thats my only complaint with NASCAR...oh and taking sponsorship away from Winston and giving it to Nextel

 

[sjs]

...I think its a good thing when a no namer can come up and win a race...makes it more interesting.

And that's exactly what the folks at NASCAR have banked on. They rely on the fact that many people are happier with the illusion of close competition than the reality of superior drivers and equipment showing their stuff. "May the best man win" went out the window a long time ago, at least with regards to driving skill. Not that some of them aren't extremely skilled, it's just that those skills are rarely the deciding factor anymore. I'm not saying that just anyone could get out there and stay with the NASCAR leaders, but with relatively little practice any decent amateur driver could stay closer than should be possible when running with "the best of the best".

But then, oval tracks never held much appeal for me in that sense anyway. I tend to think of drag racing as one dimensional, oval tracks as two dimensional (better, but still rather "flat") and road racing as three dimensional. Rally drivers are in a dimension all their own.

When I'm at a race I certainly like to see close competition for the lead, but not a traffic jam at the front right to the finish. That's just silly and can't possibly reward the best overall driver. And if the race is dominated by one car then I still get plenty of pleasure from watching the individual duels for position further back, appreciating the driving skills on display regardless of position.

BTW, your point about holding down the speeds despite the cars being so safe is one of the big factors in killing the competition. Not that I think they need to open it up and do 240, because frankly the drivers don't want that. Most of them are quite happy to make their fortunes and live to enjoy it.

 

[Brian2by2]

You exaggerate a little bit on the traffic jams up front until the end. Unless there is a caution, the winner can usually be determined 10-20 laps before the end of the race. That gives the dominate car enough time to pull ahead by enough that no one could catch him albeit a caution.

The racing scenario in NASCAR that I love is when a driver somehow slips behind, pits close to the end of the race and gets some fresh tires...2 or 4. Then, because he pit, he's a little behind, but hey, he had the strongest engine of the day and fresh tires and he's gonna be playing catch-up! Can he do it in 20 laps? I love watching that scenario and it happens alot.

This past weekend it happened with Matt Kenseth who went from 8th to 2nd in like 8 laps...

NASCAR is very very much dependent on driver skill as well as pit strategy.

At the Brickyard, Tony Stewart and Bill Elliott (and matt kenseth) had the strongest cars of the day) yet the finished 12th, 5th, and 2nd respectively. Kevin Harvick didn't have the fastest car but he caught some clean air by being out front and therefore was able to open up the gap.

Either racing style is competitive, I just feel that by racing cars that ultimately the same, that allows for more of a driver vs driver competition rather than I've got $10 mil. to blow on this car Vs. I've only got $2 mil. which thus creates a far superior car that dominates. I like competition.

 

[kgb_agent]

As far as comparing the live experience to nascar: there is none. Just because something is high pitched doesn't necessarily make it a "better" sound. See, some like the rice sound while some like the deep grunt of an america muscle car (contradicting myself by driving an NSX )

Go to an ALMS race. Get a paddock pass. The LMP900 cars will have you with your index fingers in your ears and you'll be crying for mommy....

...and if you want American muscle try the sound of the Corvette C5R. Possibly the loudest, baddest sounding piece of machinery USA has put together for racing. I WANT ONE.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Even my great-grandma turns right when going to church on sunday mornings. If I wanted to see cars go left..... whether it is a no-namer winning or a repeat winner, I would go to my local go-cart track and watch them go round and round. I am sorry any redneck fresh out of the Ford F150 can bump draft! Give me skill heel & toe, drift, threshold braking, left, right, blind off-camber apex, on and on. It just shows how people relate to their hobbies. Millions can't drive worth a shit and watch NASCAR and those who can drive watch F1,CART,FIA WRC,ALMS,etc etc. Whats really cracks me up is hearing an armchair NASCAR fan talk tech!!

How about the Honda IRL commercial with Michael A. in the passenger seat of the S2000!!! Honda was sorta ripping on IRL in its own commercial!!!!

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Oh yeah 1 more thing those of you that mention the words "I am a NASCAR fan" and "I own an NSX" in the same time frame should be embarrassed! You chose the NSX say over a Viper, C5, F-body, etc (which are all built by low tech companies with low tech materials, and with low tech engineering, made to be cheap and very fast in a straight line. The NSX on the other hand is high tech all around.

So why give a second of your supposed high tech mind to a low tech series such as IRL and NASCAR?

Sell your car now! I see a used Firehawk WS6 out my hotel window.

 

[NoNSX]

Oh yeah 1 more thing those of you that mention the words "I am a NASCAR fan" and "I own an NSX" in the same time frame should be embarrassed! You chose the NSX say over a Viper, C5, F-body, etc (which are all built by low tech companies with low tech materials, and with low tech engineering, made to be cheap and very fast in a straight line. The NSX on the other hand is high tech all around.

So why give a second of your supposed high tech mind to a low tech series such as IRL and NASCAR?

Sell your car now! I see a used Firehawk WS6 out my hotel window.

Yeah, an NSX is so much faster around a track than a C5 or a Viper "Low-tech" American sportscars are some of the most capable in the world. No NSX owner has ever wished for more power...

NASCAR has two road courses all year. The rest are oval, tri-ovals, and the occasional quad-oval. The cars are purpose-built racecars adhering to a spec. That makes for exciting racing. Yes, CART, IRL, F1, etc. are also exciting. NASCAR is not boring unless you know nothing about it. If you are that ignorant, why would you advertise it?

F1 and related open-wheel series are often dominated by the richest team owners. Yeah, the races are cool, but the races are also harder to see, and outcomes are more predictable. I do enjoy sitting at one corner watching cars go by, but you have to admit, the NASCAR stadium seating is good for racing fans, allowing the whole course to be visible from the cheap seats. There is no mystery to its popularity - fans want to see racing, and NASCAR delivers more racing than most other forms of motorsports. The outcomes are rarely decided before the end of the race, and the drivers are more "colorful" and approachable than sometimes-primadonna F1 and CART drivers.

It is popular to bash NASCAR because it garners more press than SCCA, but bashing it because it is different than F1 or CART is kind of parochial, don't you think?

I prefer GT racing, even if the cars are sometimes only tube-frame replicas of production cars. The racing is good.

 

[whiteNSXs]

Yeah, an NSX is so much faster around a track than a C5 or a Viper "Low-tech" American sportscars are some of the most capable in the world. No NSX owner has ever wished for more power...

NASCAR has two road courses all year. The rest are oval, tri-ovals, and the occasional quad-oval. The cars are purpose-built racecars adhering to a spec. That makes for exciting racing. Yes, CART, IRL, F1, etc. are also exciting. NASCAR is not boring unless you know nothing about it. If you are that ignorant, why would you advertise it?

Oh, Pleeeeze. Watching the country bumpkins turning left all day long is as exciting as watching that Dumbo Merry-Go-Round in Disneyland. And news flash! The next exciting move from the NASCAR is the TOTAL REVERSAL NASCAR. This time turning RIGHT all day long. And the drivers are currently training to turn the steering wheels the other way.

Steve