Buyers Beware JH4NA1156RT000078

Joined
11 July 2006
Messages
96
Location
Chandler, AZ
Buyers beware: I personally went to see an NSX posted in the for sale forum (white 1994 with around 19K miles, sold by a gentleman named "Charlie", this is the link: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71036), and it was not what one would expect or what one would wish to consider spending nearly $40,000 hard-earned dollars on.

I am currently located in the DC area, and have been looking for a reliable NSX, well-kept, something that will hold good value when I own it. I called up the owner of this vehicle, "Charlie," and asked all the usual questions a buyer would ask of a used car. I was reassured the vehicle was never in any accidents, and that no problems existed on the vehicle. Mind you, Charlie knew I lived in DC and that I planned to drive nearly 1600 miles round-trip to Florida to view and purchase the car. Of course, I take a few days off work and blow a few hundred on gas only to arrive in Florida and wake up the next day, call up Charlie the morning before I was to view the car, when Charlie decides to disclose that the front bumper had been repainted.

I went to view the car anyway, and found something totally different. Theres a laundry-list of issues with this car, and the owner is not an honest fellow for sure. First of all, its not only the front bumper that was repainted, the driver's side door and front fender were both hit and repainted. You can easily tell from the poor workmanship and poor paint job. The bolts under the hood securing the front fender are suspiciously clean, while the opposing side bolts are rusting like crazy. The rear bumper also looks to be a horrible match of paint, more of an off-white color compared to the adjoining panels.

Aside from all this, the front window is misalligned, most likely due to bending/deformities of the chassis from the hit to the driver's side door. This is sure to have a bunch of water leak into the car.

The A/C is totally non-functional, and the owner refused to admit it didn't work. He only said, "Well, it was just working yesterday" when I asked why it wasn't cool in the car. Don't know of an A/C that "works" part-time.

The car drove ok overall, shifting was smooth. Clutch was good. Intake (aftermarket...K&N popcharger) sounded nice. However, there was a bad vibration in the steering wheel at civilian speeds. We got out, and I checked the rear tires. They were upgraded rims, and the rear tires are 225's. The stock width is 245. The brand is not well-known, which means they were probably very cheap. The offset on the rims looks wildly off-par, and looks like the wrong offset for the NSX...from the wheel wells, they stick out further than Pamela Anderson's chest!

The seller Charlie disclosed a scant few records from Acura service. In one of the entries, it says the car was hit from the rear and sustained rear damage in addition to the front driver's side damage. This occured sometime in 2004 according to the date on the invoice. Rear pieces had to be ordered for the taillight assembly, etc. The ownder denied any accidents on the car, and when asked why the car was repainted, he simply replied, "I dunno." He kept reiterating that carfax was clean, but we all know carfax only reports damage when the cops are called to the scene of an accident. If your car gets hit by a friend, the cops would never know, and thus car fax would never know either.

That said, if you're a buyer in the Florida region and don't mind dropping nearly $40 g's on a car in fair shape (you'll definately have to make repairs, including A/C which is expensive, new rims with the correct offset, new rear tires to correct wrong width, repair front window misallignment, and the hit you'll take from future buyers detecting that the car was in an accident...it all adds up), then I say go for it. But, if you want to spend 40 g's and have a great buying experience from an honest seller, I'd definately say shop elsewhere. This was one of the most dishonest sellers I've ever met. Someone who makes me drive 1,600 miles, THEN discloses that the car had been repainted, THEN when I still go and see the car, theres a LOT more major issues which he conveniently left out, and then sarcastically says, "What do you expect me to do? Cut you a check for the gas? Ha!" does not sound like the kinda guy i'd like to buy a car from. You decide. Thats my experience with this NSX.
 
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Re: Buyers Beware

Welcome to NSXPrime...

I'm sorry for your bad experience with a dishonest seller... They are out there!

Just a suggestion, instead of taking time off work to view an interstate car, maybe next time you could ask if a local NSX Prime member either knows the car or would check it out initially for you... Before you spend your time and money...

That happens a lot here... We even do that in Australia... Just to help another enthusiast out...

Good luck!
 
Re: Buyers Beware

That Charlie's car needs to be put on the "HOT" car list to avoid. JH4NA1156RT000078

Come on Charlie, why did you waste someone's time and money? How would you feel if someone did that to you when you bought your NSX.

Tuttie_Phace, I hope that experience doesn't discourage you from buying your NSX. Like the AU_NSX said, try to find someone local to check it out first before making a commitment.

In the future, request the owner take it to a body shop and Pre-Purchase Inspection at YOUR choice. It will save you time, money, headache,etc next time. IF the seller refuses, then he/she is hiding something.
 
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Re: Buyers Beware

unfortunate....that's a hell of a drive! hope my 100% mark basch service record counts when I sell...
 
Sorry about your misfortune. If he indeed is buying an 02, as mentioned in his for sale post, well, uh...karma can be a bitch! :biggrin:
 
Sorry to hear about your experience. Like others said before, don't get discouraged in finding the right car. With patience and careful inquisition you'll find the right one. Do your reseach and post any questions you cannot find with the search feature. There is a very good resource in the FAQ section about the purchase process. As mentioned in the previous posts I highly recommend letting a local member take a look at it first. Post in the appropriate regional forum. There are plently of members that are willing to help out. Thanks for sharing your experience and making others aware. This seller does not represent the majority of Prime. Best of luck in your continued search!
 
In scanning his bio and previous posts, it looks like he purchased his NSX in March of this year for $35K.

He represents that he's a real estate broker although he also claims he used to be in the "car business"...
 
Thanks for reading guys! I am definitely not discourged. Next time, I will make sure to get it checked by a local prime member. Everyone seems to be so helpful here. I will keep looking for the right NSX. Although I am afraid if I wait too long, winter is will be here soon and I will not be able to enjoy the car.
 
Rennphile said:
In scanning his bio and previous posts, it looks like he purchased his NSX in March of this year for $35K.

...


sounds like he got screwed... ....seems like a 20k car at best if it has all those body work problems.
 
I am the owner of this car. I feel I must defend myself against what "tuttie phace" is saying. First of all, I am not dishonest, anyone that knows me can vouch for my character. Secondly, "tuttie phace" called me about the car and asked me questions such as "has the car ever been in an accident?" I responded with "not that I know of, I had a carfax ran on it that I can send you and it said that the vehicle is clean." When I purchased it, the previous owner said that the car had some paint work from scratches. Along with the clean carfax, I assume it was the truth.

I offered to take the car to a local Acura dealer to have it checked out as I would for anyone. The alleged buyer said he wanted to drive down to Florida. He drove down. I didn't ask him to come or to take off of work or force him to drive here as he states.

I told him about the window misalignment prior to his trip. I don't drive the vehicle much because I own 4 other cars including an '02 NSX. I drove it the day before he came and the A/C operated well. I will fix any problem with the A/C.

The wheels on the car look fine and I have the stock rims as well. The car doesn't shake, it hasn't since I owned it. The fact that the alleged buyer said that is absolutely ridiculous.

When the alleged buyer said that he wasn't interested in the vehicle, he asked me what I was going to do about him driving all the way down here? I didn't really know how to answer that question so I asked him what he wanted me to do about it? He had no response. I asked him if he'd like gas money? I don't really know what the proper response is to that.

In summation, I didn't ever lie to the buyer or leave anything out. He's angry because he drove down and the car didn't meet his expectations so he's painting me out to be a bad guy because of it. As I said above, I will take the car to an Acura dealer for an inspection for anyone who is interested. I am not dishonest nor was I ever to this buyer. He is just upset and looking for someone to blame (me) for "wasting gas" on a vehicle that didn't meet his expectations.
 
Rennphile said:
In scanning his bio and previous posts, it looks like he purchased his NSX in March of this year for $35K.

He represents that he's a real estate broker although he also claims he used to be in the "car business"...

I am a real estate broker and I used to be in the car business right after college.
 
djdrock said:
Sorry about your misfortune. If he indeed is buying an 02, as mentioned in his for sale post, well, uh...karma can be a bitch! :biggrin:

I did purchase an '02 and it rides fine, as does my '94. Karma can be a bitch to someone else because I didn't misrepresent anything.
 
The seller Charlie disclosed a scant few records from Acura service. In one of the entries, it says the car was hit from the rear and sustained rear damage in addition to the front driver's side damage. This occured sometime in 2004 according to the date on the invoice. Rear pieces had to be ordered for the taillight assembly, etc.
Hi guys, Steve here and a lot of you know who I am. I am a white NSX freak who was planning to buy this car from eBay but the eBay seller cut the auction short to have sold the car to Charles. As soon as I found out the car was in Charles' possession, I PMed him that I would like to be contacted if he ever wanted to sell it. Soon Charles bought a 2002 Yellow NSX and I was offered the car. I knew about a painted fender from the eBay listing and Charles did confirm it and he claimed the work was perfect and the car was in superb condition. He denied any other accident, paint, wears, electrical issues, and the car needed nothing. He sent me 44 pictures which showed a few questionable flaws namely a worn airbag, mismatched paint at various panels, and "something" behind the driver's inner door handle. I was assured that the car was near mint and these flaws were just from the lighting and camera angles. Being from 3000 miles away, I was naturally skeptical about buying a car that far away. After going back and forth with the amounts of my offer and the sleepless nights, we finally agreed on a price and I would get a PPI from a local Acura dealer and I would fly down to inspect the car one last time before handing over the check. Being so paranoid, I inspected the pictures one last time and I realized that the flaws I cited before were probably real. I contacted Charles before booking the flight to ask him again to comment on the "flaws" and this time he said the "something" behind the driver's inner door handle was some wear. Being such a NSX freak, I know there is no "wear" possible behind the driver's door handle but perhaps a broken door handle which was glued back. And he again reassured me that the paint matching and the airbag were fine. Charles also made a comment of " the car is a 12 year old car with expected wears...if there is any other reason that will prevent you from buying the car other than the PPI, please let me know now so I don't lose potential buyers." I replied that there would be many reasons for me to not buy the car such as undisclosed problems, body works, paint works, needed repairs, and so on. At that point, I became more skeptical and decided it would be too risky to lose $1000 for the PPI and the trip on such questionable car and hence withdrew my offer. I also commented that the car, being a 1994 white/blk NSX with 19k miles in Charles' descriptions of being a near mint car with no issues, would have a line of people waiting to give him the money.
I don't know for sure what the car's actual condition is but this is my involvement with the sale of the car.
Steve
 
Just to back up what others who have seen this car in person are saying, I inspected the car that cebernstein was selling and was also shocked and very dissappointed at this supposedly "very clean, low mileage, well kept" nsx. Following are pictures of my findings:

The car must have spent some time near the ocean as evidenced by the following pics showing the amount of oxidation and rust on the underbody and engine bay
 

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One can find overspray on the taillights indicating a repaint. As it turns out, a few body panels had paint that was a close match but not exact. My guess is that this car had been repaired by a body shop.
 

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There was still painter's tape on the front bumper of the car, indicating to me a recent paint job. The body shop neglected to install body panel bolts that holds on the front bumper on the driver's side. The passenger side had freshly painted bolts and yet the driver's side had rusted, indicating that those bolts are original.

The driver's side door, front fender, and rear bumper had the original paint.
 

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The weather stripping on the drivers side was loose, there was a tear on the trunk carpet, the driver's side interior door handle was very worn out, driver's side seat was worn, and the headliner was stained.
 

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My overall impressions of the car were disappointing. The condition of the car was not as was described in the advertisement.

From the evidence gathered the car had been in an accident, and maybe a serious one.

There are a few other flaws with the car but I don't want to publicly provide details about them as they may try to be hidden or 'bandage-fixed' to fool an unsuspecting buyer.

Another point of interest is that Charlie paid $35,000 for the car and is selling for $39,900. He admits to his purchase price as provided in the post found here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=608597#post608597

Either he got into an accident, paid $4,900 to get it repaired and painted or he is seriously trying to rip someone off.
 
I always say, there is a reason why some cars have stupid low miles....its called, they spend most of their time in the body shop. A ratty car is a always just a ratty car, and a lady is always a lady. Pay up and get yourself a keeper, not some reshuffled roach. You'll thank yourself in the end.
 
Looks like you've been busted cebernstein......better go play with uninformed children...looks like the pros.... GOTCHA!
 
gene said:
Looks like you've been busted cebernstein......better go play with uninformed children...looks like the pros.... GOTCHA!

tell us more....Helps keep the community healthy:biggrin:
 
OLDMNSX said:
Keep your head up. There are good NSX owners out there. I ran into a couple before I found mine. If you need a car inspected in Idaho, let me know.

Brad

Im in NJ, if you need one checked out over here. I bought mine of a pretty cool guy too. Fly to VA in the snow, blasted home in my baby. 3 years later, looking forward to owning mine forever:biggrin:
 
cebernstein said:
I did purchase an '02 and it rides fine, as does my '94. Karma can be a bitch to someone else because I didn't misrepresent anything.

Time will tell buddy!
 
wow ok.... that guy got owned.

Im not sure why anyone would claim the car for what it is not.... after all... the other person is GOING TO COME AND SEE IT!

making someone drive a zillion miles only to see a mis represent car is a raw deal.:biggrin:

Im going fishing. Good luck guys. Always carfax.

Saving 20$ in a 40,000$ purchase... .come on do your math. Dont save little and lose BIG!:biggrin:
 
Dishonest sellers seem to be a common theme here lately. Thankfully, there are more people who are honest and are willing to help.

This reminds me of a time I was selling my first 91 MR2 I had, and the first person who looked at it bought it for my fair asking price. Both he and his Dad could not believe that I was disclosing all the things that were wrong with it...small oil leak, it needed a couple of new ball joints, probably due for a new clutch, AC was hit and miss etc. It needed some work, but they new that and at their PPI, everything I said was exactly what it needed. It was a great car and the kid got it for a great price. Honestly goes a long way!
 
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