Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay JH4NA1153PT000424

[brahtw8]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...oryZ5337QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Item #120066982439

VIN JH4NA1153PT000424

This is my old NSX. Here is what happened to the car:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61687

The car may or may not have a "clean" title at present, but it has been hit hard and the rear frame rail was bent.

 

[jond]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

Seems dishonest for the new owner to sell it without disclosing that.

 

[Synthesis]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

all i know is that when (if) i sell my car, i want the next owner to be comfortable with everything. i want them to buy the history of the car, along with the rest of it. i know that might affect the buyer's decision as to how much they want to pay (in a good or bad way), but they'd be spending a lot either way, and I'd want the same....

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

Seems dishonest for the new owner to sell it without disclosing that.

Hence I felt the need to post about it here. I have asked the seller a question through ebay as to whether the car has been in an accident. We will see what the response is.

The auction is private, so the identity of the bidders is kept secret and no one outside can identify them to contact them.

 

[XRacerX]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

i just got off a Live Help sesssion with eBay. Here is a transcript......
everyone else shold report it too so eBay gets the messsage

Initial Question/Comment: Other
10:39:55 AM SystemSystem

May Ca. has joined this session!
10:39:55 AM SystemSystem
Connected with May Ca.

10:40:01 AM nullMay Ca.
Hello and welcome to eBay Motors Live Help! My name is Mayca. How may I help you?

10:40:05 AM nullxxxxxxxx
hello May

10:40:36 AM nullxxxxxxxx
the car in this auction is being fraudulently represented, it has been involved in an accident and had a bent frame

10:40:56 AM nullxxxxxxxx
see this link: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80871

10:41:29 AM nullxxxxxxxx
I'm referring to the 1993 Acura NSX item number 120066982439

10:41:56 AM nullMay Ca.
I'd be happy to assist you with that. For verification, may I have your eBay user id, please?

10:42:04 AM nullxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx

10:43:01 AM nullMay Ca.
Thank you.

10:43:09 AM nullxxxxxxxx
you're very welcome

10:43:12 AM nullMay Ca.
Let me have a look at that.

10:43:16 AM nullxxxxxxxx
please

10:45:09 AM nullMay Ca.
Thank you for waiting.

10:45:14 AM nullxxxxxxxx
there are photos of this car after it was damaged here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61687

10:45:57 AM nullMay Ca.
I will be reporting this ad to our Trust and Safety team.

10:46:17 AM nullMay Ca.
You can also report a listing directly using the link "report this item" at the bottom of the item page. For additional reporting options please go to the main "Security Center" page, at: http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter/?ssPageName=home:f:f:US

 

[Alan C.]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

In another thread brahtw8 wrote in response to a salvage title question on his car:

No. The title is clean and the same title that was issued when I bought the car from Kenric in 2003. I kept the car when the insurance company paid out, and it never formally changed hands.

Don't you think you set this whole thing in motion? Didn't you offer an enticement by pointing out the car did not have a salvage tilte? I'm sorry, but you can't rain on other's parade without opening your own umbrella. This is one of the easiest ways of getting around a salvage title.

BTW, the owner is advertising just as you did: 'The car has a clean title'. Granted, you did show the damage at point of sale since you sold it as is.

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

In another thread brahtw8 wrote in response to a salvage title question on his car:


Don't you think you set this whole thing in motion? Didn't you offer an enticement by pointing out the car did not have a salvage tilte? I'm sorry, but you can't rain on other's parade without opening your own umbrella. This is one of the easiest ways of getting around a salvage title.

I disagree.

I sold the car with the title it had, which was clean, and transferred it legally with full disclosure to the buyer of the extent of the damage it suffered. I sold the car at a value commensurate with its damage.

I am not aware of any other option, let alone any obligation, legal or moral, that was not fulfilled. What would you have had me do differently?

My objection to the ebay ad is not that the seller represents the title as clean. The title is clean as far as I know and Carfax confirms that.

My objection is that the seller has not disclosed the damage to the car or the fact that is has been repaired.

 

[Hugh]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

My objection is that the seller has not disclosed the damage to the car or the fact that is has been repaired.

Exactamundo!

It's entirely the possible the car was repaired professionally and is now indistinguishable from new however the current eBay seller should be making full disclosure. Any thorough PPI should reveal the prior damage, no?

 

[Alan C.]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

A good PPI should reveal the repairs. Also, it is possible to add comments to a car on CarFax.

Still the fact remains that a sale was offered with the enticement of a clean title.

 

[Hugh]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

Still the fact remains that a sale was offered with the enticement of a clean title.

But with full disclosure regarding the damage. This simply gives a potential buyer the advantage of buying a car with repairable damage and having a clean title. Nothing wrong with that. However if the first buyer had a conscience, he would make full disclosure to future buyers.

I see your point though Alan. Having the clean title is an enticement for a future buyer to be less than honest.

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

A good PPI should reveal the repairs. Also, it is possible to add comments to a car on CarFax.

Still the fact remains that a sale was offered with the enticement of a clean title.

There was no enticement.

The car did not meet the definition of a salvage vehicle under WI law. It was sold with full disclosure.

How should I have sold it differently, in your opinion?

 

[Alan C.]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

If someone asked if there was a salvage title and you went to the extent to explain that you bought it from the insurance company and it included the title in the same condition as when you purchased the car that is an enticement to purchase.

However, I do think that is good that you are now making others aware of the car's history.

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

If someone asked if there was a salvage title and you went to the extent to explain that you bought it from the insurance company and it included the title in the same condition as when you purchased the car that is an enticement to purchase.

However, I do think that is good that you are now making others aware of the car's history.

I have always made everyone aware of the car's history.

Nothing improper was done. Period. Please stop commenting about a transaction you were not involved in and frankly know very little about.

 

[nis350]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

Humm... regardless of the title or how the previous sale was handled, major accident like this must be disclosed to the interested parties.

Someone might just buy the car based on the seller's representation without PPI, then he/she is really screwed.

I personally don't support this kind of dishonest practice.

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

If someone asked if there was a salvage title and you went to the extent to explain that you bought it from the insurance company and it included the title in the same condition as when you purchased the car that is an enticement to purchase.

It is not enticement to give an honest answer to a question about the title. It is full disclosure.

It had a clean title. It didn't meet the definition of a salvage vehicle. I fully disclosed the damage to the car and the insurance payout.

What should I have said?

You have yet to articulate what I should have said or done differently.

 

[Alan C.]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

Sorry, but I did. You can go the CarFax site and you will find that you can add comments to a car's history. Read above.

Is the person selling it now the person you sold it to?

 

[skyguy]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

I love a good internet fight!:biggrin:

Click HERE

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

Sorry, but I did. You can go the CarFax site and you will find that you can add comments to a car's history. Read above.

Is the person selling it now the person you sold it to?

I was not aware of that feature on Carfax.

I don't know who is selling the car now, but it does not appear to be the person I sold it to.

 

[The Kid]

I think the car looks pretty good. Seems like the car may have been properly repaired and those rims look hot! Sebring silver's look great with the roof paint matched:wink:

 

[nsx2tall]

Is anyone here kidding themselves that there aren't people that would misrepresent a car they are selling to keep from taking a bath on the sale? I think there are plenty of cases where a $5000 cut in price is enough incentive for a seller to keep his mouth shut-- no matter how much moral fortitude he or she has. Certainly something like the seller's disclosure statement in real estate would help. Something which has real consequences if you lie...

I've never heard of 'Seller Tell All'... only 'Buyer Beware'.

very disappointing story, but no surprise for a cynic like me.

 

[Packard]

In New York State if the cost of repair exceeds 75% of the value of the car it must be salvaged and may not be repaired and re-sold.

Each state has another rule. I don't know how e-bay with its interstate commerce would need to comply. Comply with the seller's state's law, or the buyer's state's laws?

 

[Meeyatch1]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

In another thread brahtw8 wrote in response to a salvage title question on his car:


Don't you think you set this whole thing in motion? Didn't you offer an enticement by pointing out the car did not have a salvage tilte? I'm sorry, but you can't rain on other's parade without opening your own umbrella. This is one of the easiest ways of getting around a salvage title.

BTW, the owner is advertising just as you did: 'The car has a clean title'. Granted, you did show the damage at point of sale since you sold it as is.

I have been off of this site quite a while without posting....and idiotic, judgemental, high and mighty, posts like this are one of the reasons I left. There is no freaking way he set this in motion by selling his car roughly a year ago and being totally up front about the status of everything involved with the car and its title. No way is this his fault. If you think that some guy selling a car that was formerly his on the Internet is in any way the fault of the original poster, you are an idiot. Period. That is like saying that if the new owner gets caught speeding in it, that brahtw8 is somehow at fault for it...just outrageous.

You say he offered the clean title as an enticement for sale.....hell yes it is enticing for the new buyer!! But I will bet you good money that the main reason brahtw8 put that in the ad is because he did not want to spend all day answering the same questions from tire kicking sub-humans all chanting, 'Does it have a clean title or salvage'. It is answering the questions before they are asked. Title status in an inevitable first question for any car being sold missing the back half....it just is!!

Pardon me for unloading both barrels on you....I have had a crappy day, am back from vacation early to attend the forth funeral for the year, and am at my wits end with people taking an ivory tower stance on someone who was just trying to help. You cannot do anything on here without people slamming you and saying you should have done more or done something differently. Ask yourself this....would you have rather he said nothing and given the possible new owners NO notice of the cars history? Again, I apologize for being curt with you, but I really wish that people could help out these days without getting the raw end of the deal. Alright...that's it...I am going back to my cave. ...

 

[brahtw8]

Re: Buyer Beware: Previously Frame-Damaged NSX on Ebay

You say he offered the clean title as an enticement for sale.....hell yes it is enticing for the new buyer!! But I will bet you good money that the main reason brahtw8 put that in the ad is because he did not want to spend all day answering the same questions from tire kicking sub-humans all chanting, 'Does it have a clean title or salvage'. It is answering the questions before they are asked. Title status in an inevitable first question for any car being sold missing the back half....it just is!!

Just to clarify, I did not even post the title status in the original for sale ad. I was asked a question in the thread and I responded 12/9/05. I then edited the original post (see the edit date 12/9/05) and inserted the title information. Trying to entice a buyer with a clean title was the last thing on my mind.

In any event, the sale of the car had nothing to do with the ad on prime. I was in discussions with the eventual buyer for several weeks (but the car was still for sale) before I put the ad up on prime. The sale closed shortly thereafter and I closed the thread.

 

[otto_joe]

It looks like this car is up for sale in Sacramento.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/254605769.html

Otto

1993 Silver Acura NSX. clean! 27k obo - $27000 (alamo square / nopa)
Reply to: [email protected]
Date: 2006-12-28, 1:19PM PST


***NOTE I AM IN SACRAMENTO CALIFORNIA Acura : NSX 5 SPEED NSX
1993 ACURA NSX CLEAN RUNS PERFECT

Standard Equipment:
LEATHER REAR SPOILER POWER DOOR LOCKS CRUISE CONTROL AUTO CLIMATE CONTROL ABS AM/FM RADIO CASSETTE POWER WINDOWS 2 WHEEL DRIVE POWER SEAT DRIVER 6 CYLINDER 3.0 LITER 24V


Optional Equipment:
AIR CONDITIONING POWER STEERING CD CHANGER

Miles: 100000
Doors: 2 doors or more
Transmission: Manual
Interior: Black
Year: 1993
Warranty: No
VIN Number: jh4na1153pt000424
Title: Clear
Exterior: Silver
Condition: Used
Engine: 6 CYLINDER 3.0 LITER 24V
Fuel Type: Gasoline

THIS 1993 ACURA NSX THIS CAR IS SUPER CLEAN. THIS CAR IS ALL FACTORY EXCEPT IT HAS LOWERING EIBACH SPRINGS INSTALLED AND AN COMPTECH CARBON FIBER INTAKE IN THE QUARTER PANEL. THIS CAR RUNS, NO EXTRA NOISES THIS CAR HAS BEEN KEPT IN GREAT CONDITION. ALL THE INTERIOR TRIM PANELS ARE IN PERFECT SHAPE ITS NOT EVEN CHIPPING OR PEALING. ALL THE GEARS WORK PERFECT NO GRINDS NOTHING. CAR HAS HAD A MAJOR TUNE UP DONE 15K AGO. NEW CLUTCH. CAR HAS NO OIL LEAKS. THEIR IS NOTING WRONG WITH THE CAR. THE CAR WILL NEED BREAKS DOWN THE ROAD AND THE REAR ENGINE COVER IS MISSING. BUT THE REAR GLASS IS TINTED AND YOU ARE UNABLE TO SEE THE ENGINE FROM THE OUTSIDE. I HAVE AN HID KIT ON THIS ACURA I WILL BE REMOVING THE KIT AND PUTTING BACK THE STOCK HEADLIGHT BULBS BACK ON. CAR IS MISSING THE SPARE TIRE. THE CAR ORIGINALLY CAME WITH A BLACK TOP I HAD IT PROFESSIONALLY PAINTED TO LOOK LIKE THE 1996 AND UP MODEL

asking $27,000 or best offer for this car. Price is negotiable

Call me at 916-821-3456 (John)

 

[Deltron Zero]

I think the car looks pretty good. Seems like the car may have been properly repaired and those rims look hot! Sebring silver's look great with the roof paint matched:wink:

that other chic is hotter. put her back!