Building a $50K Track Tool to beat $500K Track Tools

[1K2GO]

Drove a 458 and Huracán in anger at the local track this weekend. Wow, incredible machines. The amount of engineering in these things is remarkable. The Huracán pulled harder than anything I've ever driven. It's going to be difficult to build an NSX that can rival those cars. Just the amount of performance electronics is something that will be near impossible to compete with.

They're heavier, particularly the Huracán, and that could be a huge differentiator. I guess the fun is in the trying! Robert, how are you doing against the 458s on track?

2x Kudos to you for getting a drive in those hyper-cars. The Ferrari 458 is an amazing car, my absolute favorite sportscar. There were two 458's on track last weekend, a gorgeous dark grey metallic Speciale driven by a novice/noob and a bright red 458 Ferrari Challenge car driven by a very experienced and well heeled track rat. That car is not street legal. He keeps it in a garage at Sears Point, shows up in his matching 'street' 458 with his pit crew. That car is a stripped down factory prepped race car. -2800lbs/600+rwhp. It is 5++ sec. faster than my NSX. It is a very impressive car on track. The sound that car makes when it blows by you is unholly. Most F-Car/Lambo/Pagani etc. hyper-car owners that dare take their car to the track are so scared of them that they just tiptoe around the track with a half dozen GoPros attached to them. The 458 Challenge car is the exception to the rule. He is lights out. I would need 200 more HP to be able to contend with him. The only cars capable of matching his speed are racecars with racecar drivers. Thats why, here in NorCal the Porsche 911 GT3RS is king. There are more of them and by sheer numbers there are better drivers pushing 'some' of them. As a former/recovering 911RSR driver, I rejoice in the challenge. They are what motivates me out there.

458 Challenge (wiki)[edit]

458 Challenge​

The 458 Challenge is a track-only racecar designed to be fielded in the Ferrari Challenge. It was presented at the Ferrari Annual Dealer Meeting on 14 July 2010. According to Ferrari it can lap the Fiorano test track in 1:16.5, which is two seconds faster than its F430 Challenge predecessor and only 0.2 seconds slower than the Ferrari FXX.[SUP][31][/SUP][SUP][32][/SUP] Weight was reduced from the standard model through the use of thinner body panels, carbon fiber replacement panels, and polycarbonate windows and windshield.[SUP][33][/SUP] The differences over the regular road legal 458 include a racing cockpit, windows which only open through small slots, air-jack mounting on the rear to lift the car up, racing fuel filler cap, center-lock wheels, racing exhaust as well as tow hooks front and rear.

 

[Ponyboy]

2x Kudos to you for getting a drive in those hyper-cars.

It happened by blind luck. A buddy asked if I could help instruct and I just so happened to be totally free last week.

Other than the rocket ship power and traction coming out of corners, the steering feel is completely opposite of our beloved NSX. Their steering is very light and the feeling of exertion you get (or rather I get) coming out of the NSX after a session just isn't there. Matter of fact, I didn't even realize that until later in the evening on one of the days.

Makes me wonder if anyone has done an NSX EPS conversion for the early model NSXs...

 

[1K2GO]

Retro-fit power steering? Why? Last thing in the world I would change on my car is the non-boosted steering. it is my favorite thing about this car and one of the principle reasons I bought an early car. Just me.

 

[Ponyboy]

For the reason I mentioned previously and b/c a tired driver is a slower driver. The EPS on the NSX is actually fairly good and, IIRC from NSX Fiesta a few years ago, some of the JDM track guys "retro-fit" EPS. Not sure if it's for the same reason though. As another data point, a professional driver that had competed in LeMans had driven my car around my local track and wondered "what happened to the steering?" I told him there is no power steering. With 235s up front, it's a tad heavier at slow speeds (as you know). He just smirked and kept driving.

No intention of offending you, just thinking out loud while noticing the differences. :thumbup:

 

[stuntman]

There were two 458's on track last weekend, a gorgeous dark grey metallic Speciale driven by a novice/noob and a bright red 458 Ferrari Challenge car driven by a very experienced and well heeled track rat. That car is not street legal. He keeps it in a garage at Sears Point, shows up in his matching 'street' 458 with his pit crew. That car is a stripped down factory prepped race car. -2800lbs/600+rwhp. It is 5++ sec. faster than my NSX. It is a very impressive car on track. The sound that car makes when it blows by you is unholly. Most F-Car/Lambo/Pagani etc. hyper-car owners that dare take their car to the track are so scared of them that they just tiptoe around the track with a half dozen GoPros attached to them. The 458 Challenge car is the exception to the rule. He is lights out. I would need 200 more HP to be able to contend with him. The only cars capable of matching his speed are racecars with racecar drivers. Thats why, here in NorCal the Porsche 911 GT3RS is king. There are more of them and by sheer numbers there are better drivers pushing 'some' of them. As a former/recovering 911RSR driver, I rejoice in the challenge. They are what motivates me out there.

The 458 challenge are probably around 600bhp but they aren't making 600+whp.

 

[nsxnut]

For the reason I mentioned previously and b/c a tired driver is a slower driver. The EPS on the NSX is actually fairly good and, IIRC from NSX Fiesta a few years ago, some of the JDM track guys "retro-fit" EPS. Not sure if it's for the same reason though. As another data point, a professional driver that had competed in LeMans had driven my car around my local track and wondered "what happened to the steering?" I told him there is no power steering. With 235s up front, it's a tad heavier at slow speeds (as you know). He just smirked and kept driving.

No intention of offending you, just thinking out loud while noticing the differences. :thumbup:

You don't want to have EPS enabled when on track.

If you are on the power in a corner as you should be and there is any slip in the rear grip the eps will kill throttle.
This will change the weight distribution and cause the rear wheels to step out further.

Eps on the NSX may be good on the street but should not be used on the track.

Later,
Don

 

[jwmelvin]

EPS != TCS.
You don't want TCS on while on track. EPS only acts below about 30 mph in the NSX so is largely irrelevant when on track.

 

[Ponyboy]

EPS != TCS.
You don't want TCS on while on track. EPS only acts below about 30 mph in the NSX so is largely irrelevant when on track.

That's a good point. Forgot about the speed threshold.

 

[nsxnut]

You don't want to have EPS enabled when on track.

If you are on the power in a corner as you should be and there is any slip in the rear grip the eps will kill throttle.
This will change the weight distribution and cause the rear wheels to step out further.

Eps on the NSX may be good on the street but should not be used on the track.

Later,
Don

My bad you want TPS off. Traction control
EPS power searing... On is fine... mine is always on

Sorry about any confusion.

 

[1K2GO]

Can we put the Power Steering vs 'the way Senna demanded his car' to rest now? :wink:

The 458 challenge are probably around 600bhp but they aren't making 600+whp.

Thanks Billy, yes a stock Ferrari Challenge car has approx the same HP as a street 458+ some factory massaging and bolt-ons...

But this is no stock 'run of the mill' challenge car. I don't believe he campaigns the car in the F-car challenge. No one has any specific details about its actual spec but it is the worst kept secret in the paddock that this car is way beyond factory spec. The owner has more money than god. I've showed up on a random weekday (on more than one occasion) at Sears Point to pick up some tires/parts only to find him on track with the track to himself. Everyone needs a hobby. That car is a raging beast.

 

[JoseJA1979]

Rob,

Did you get a chance to post the latest video (chasing GT3 RS') to youtube?

 

[solidol]

Can we put the Power Steering vs 'the way Senna demanded his car' to rest now? :wink:

Not until now :biggrin:

 

[naaman]

I've never hustled a car around a racetrack, but anytime I've driven without power steering, I've liked it so much better.

 

[1K2GO]

For the reason I mentioned previously and b/c a tired driver is a slower driver.
No intention of offending you, just thinking out loud while noticing the differences. :thumbup:

None taken :smile: it would take a lot more than insulting my vintage ricer's manual steering to get under my skin.
Btw, I have never 'tired' of driving my non-assisted NSX :wink:

- - - Updated - - -

Rob,

Did you get a chance to post the latest video (chasing GT3 RS') to youtube?

I have to convert the video to upload to youtube (PITA) but I will get to it, I promise.

 

[Ponyboy]

Btw, I have never 'tired' of driving my non-assisted NSX :wink:

lol…well, when I get my 458 Speciale, I'll let you know what you're missing.

 

[stuntman]

Not until now :biggrin:

This is odd since DK owns an NSX-R...

 

[1K2GO]

lol…well, when I get my 458 Speciale, I'll let you know what you're missing.

I've been on track with 458 Speciales twice, I don't have to imagine what I'm missing...

Droooooooooooool

 

[Ponyboy]

I've been on track with 458 Speciales twice, I don't have to imagine what I'm missing...

You have a great advantage just from the sheer fear they have of wadding up their beloved Fezza. I'd bet they're barely driving 6 or 7/10ths. When I drove the 458 Italia, which I'm told is a bit lower in performance than the Speciale, it was incredible. Compared to my NSX, it was like judging between analogue to digital…F-86 to F-22…Sturmgewehr to M4.

Re-read the entire thread today and am going to follow your alignment settings with the Comptech Camber Bushings - thank you - to see where that gets me at my track.

 

[1K2GO]

You have a great advantage just from the sheer fear they have of wadding up their beloved Fezza. I'd bet they're barely driving 6 or 7/10ths. When I drove the 458 Italia, which I'm told is a bit lower in performance than the Speciale, it was incredible. Compared to my NSX, it was like judging between analogue to digital…F-86 to F-22…Sturmgewehr to M4.

Agreed, as i said previously, most hyper car owners are terrified of wadding up their million dollar mega-cars. The two 458 Speciales were just tip-toeing around the track but I did witness one of them open it up on the back straight. The acceleration of that car is mind blowing. The owner was completely clueless but when he punched it, it was lights out. The 458 Challenge car is even more impressive than the Speciale, it is lighter an purpose built for track use, and the dude can drive. It's 10sec. faster than my car at Sears Point.

Re-read the entire thread today and am going to follow your alignment settings with the Comptech Camber Bushings - thank you - to see where that gets me at my track.

Cool, my pleasure. My suspension setup is not for everyone, especially if you DD your car. Let me know how you like it.

 

[1K2GO]

Latest Update

Fairly certain that each one of these is good for at least .10sec. per lap.

 

[golgo13]

This is how I would set-up an NSX, no question. Well done.

It's great that you're local too, so I can pick your brain and of course try and go for a ride-along sometime.

lol

 

[1K2GO]

This is how I would set-up an NSX, no question. Well done.
It's great that you're local too, so I can pick your brain and of course try and go for a ride-along sometime.
lol

Thanks golgo, I appreciate your sentiments. She's still a work in progress with lots of projects on the drawing board. You're never really done building a track car. I've owned all kinds of cars throughout my years, FRD, FWD, RRD, MRD, this car is very special and by far, the most rewarding and fun car to drive at the limit. It really has no vices and once properly sorted, needs no nannies or driver aids. Good luck in your search.

 

[1K2GO]

Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway June 6th 2015

[h=2]Event: Trackmasters / Speedventures HPDE Saturday, 6, June 2015[/h]

This should be a well attended event with a healthy helping of fast, track prepped cars & drivers from Northern & Southern California.

This will likely be my last track day until NSXPO in October as my car will be going back into Driving Ambition for the next round of highly antisipated upgrades.

I've got a paddock garage reserved so anyone in the area, come on out and say hello. Watch this space for event pics and in-car video after the weekend.

Hope to see some felow Primers out at the track.

​

 

[Jinks]

Event: Trackmasters / Speedventures HPDE Saturday, 6, June 2015

This should be a well attended event with a healthy helping of fast, track prepped cars & drivers from Northern & Southern California.

This will likely be my last track day until NSXPO in October as my car will be going back into Driving Ambition for the next round of highly antisipated upgrades.

I've got a paddock garage reserved so anyone in the area, come on out and say hello. Watch this space for event pics and in-car video after the weekend.

Hope to see some felow Primers out at the track.

​

Hey Rob, hope you and your "X" are well. I will probably be stopping by the track again this weekend just to get another peek. This time in my car. I scurried to try to prep for this track event but I go on 2 weeks vacation next week so things are crazy. Besides, I want to do things right. Not so much for myself but for others on the track and their own safety. I have been been playing around still with the new power. Testing the clutch and brakes on less traveled roads. But I guarantee, next event I am in there!!!! Does anyone here know a good starter helmet to purchase?
Good luck this weekend and enjoy. Look out for another black "X" rolling through.

 

[jwmelvin]

Does anyone here know a good starter helmet to purchase?

Definitely go to a shop and try them on. The difference in fit between brands is not minor. There are a number of lower-cost options to check out (~$300). I bought a cheap one (Zamp) for an extra online and the one I tried on fits much better (HJC). Also, the SA2010 helmets will get cheaper when SA2015 helmets are released in the fall (they are usable for 10 years from the rating).