Black 2000 T JH4NA2164YT000061 49k Sarasota / eBay / Salvage Title

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16 June 2010
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112
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Northern Virginia
NSX Prime said:
3. "Is this NSX listed for half market price too good to be true?" Come on. You already know the answer. Yes, it's a scam. There are dozens of them out there at any given time. Move on.

I really didn't want to start a thread, but this has been bugging me all weekend. Hope this is the right place, right way, right circumstance. Search tool came up with nada on the VIN. I don't think this one is a scam, but the story doesn't add up 100% to me either.

Here is the eBay listing and the same car on AutoTrader. Not terribly descriptive but AutoCheck does show a salvage title issued to an insurance company 12/09 and seller claims right front door was replaced, and that he has no photos of the damage.

However the intarwebz do have pictures, from the IAA site. Primary damage to undercarriage estimated at $32K, ACV = $42K.

But, I'm still early on in my search and don't have a feel for what kind of impact would cause that kind of damage, or how you'd even check out the repair. Does anyone think the previous owner just decided to take the payout ($32K) and move on? Or are there are other theories as to how ol' 000061 ended up on a salvage title? Because if this one is mechanically up to snuff, it's very near what my ideal NSX would be (3.2, T, not ubermodded. And I'm kind of partial to flip-lights since my RX-7 days :)).

All things considered I'd rather pay a premium for a well-cared for unit. But that pushes the time-frame out too. I'm looking for reasons to consider this one, or run away. My instinct is, run, but the temptation is there.

Anyway, that's why I wanted to present this to the experts for feedback. If there's opinions on the pricing (BiN = $33.5k) that's great too.

If this post is inappropriate to this forum, please inform/yell at me and/or delete thread (but please don't delete me!! I still need to buy an NSX! :redface:)
 
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That's local to me. I'll give the seller a call and see what I can see.

edit - He's only a couple miles away. Going to see it in 1/2 hour.
 
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I'm sorry for the confusion, but are you suggesting that at 33.5k, this may be a scam?

Moving on, IMO, I don't feel the car is worth anywhere near $33.5. A salvage title drops the value...a lot. When it comes times to resell, if you ever choose to, good luck finding a bank or any lending institution to lend a nickel on it.

I bid on a very similiar 00 NSX at the BJ auction in WPB Florida earlier this year, the car was near mint inside and out, tasteful mods, but the dreaded salvage title. I stopped bidding at $24k and the car sold for $24500.

I feel the price this seller is asking is in line with one without a salvage title.

I also inquired about another 00 in South Florida a few months back, that sold for under 30k, perfect car, no salvage title. I came close to pulling the trigger, but ended up with an 02 to replace my 95.

Just to put things in perspective an 05 NSX with about 14k miles sold on EBAY a few months back for just over 40k. If that car didn't have a salvage title I would have figured it for around 60k.

Just my 2 cents.:biggrin:
 
Okay, I just took a look. The seller seems to be a nice enough person, but this car is definitely overpriced.

I want to preface my statement by saying I'm not an expert body or paint guy. My experience comes solely from 5+ years of NSX ownership and hanging out here on Prime.

Start with the good. The interior looks very nice aside from a little wear on the driver's bolster. As I was driving to meet him, I saw him pull out from a side street and followed him to the meeting place. The car looks great rolling down the street. It's got an aftermarket exhaust and sounds nice. New tires and wheels also.

Now to the bad. This car has body panel gap issues all the way around. Both doors, the headlight covers and the hood all have uneven gaps compared to my car. I opened the front trunk and when I was done looking I dropped it from about 10 inches (just as I would my hood) and it didn't latch itself - I had to push it shut. It wasn't especially clean under there, either. The engine looked good at a glance, but when I peeked under and back the valve covers and other hardware back in there looked quite dirty.

The car was dusty, so it was tough to really evaluate the paint. I did find several small spots on the passenger rear quarter panel where the paint appears to be nicked.

The seller said the passenger door had been replaced and that there was no frame rail or roof damage, but I'm not qualified to say. Both doors open and latch easily. I didn't remove the roof. I didn't ask to drive it.

So, that's my 10 minute inspection report. Hope it helps!
 
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heySkippy you are incredible. Thanks a ton. I can't believe how awesome the Prime community has been in my short exposure. You basically confirmed what I was thinking, that there would be body or maybe frame problems after the rebuild. The auction site mentioned undercarriage as the primary damage, but I don't know how you get to a $32K estimate without frame being involved.

mknmoves, I didn't mean to imply the car was a scam at all... the reason for the inclusion of the quote was a justification for posting the thread, since it didn't sound like a scam, but it did (in my limited experience) seem out of line on price with that title. You confirmed that for me, thanks a lot! If I was to go for something sooner than later, it'd either be something like the one you just sold (didn't have my finances in line a month ago :(), or I'd just hold out for a 3.2 T. Or get an '05 for 40k on eBay :biggrin:
 
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I picked up my 2001 spa yellow with just over 13K miles with a perfect history for 43K. This was the perfect car for me as I was looking for one with the pop up head lights (I like the way they look). Was it too much money for the car? I did not think so. I thought I got a deal. I guess my point is that if you are patient the perfect car for you will come around. The problem is that when it does come around and you buy it you'll find an even better car the next day, week, month. I've been a member of Prime for seven years and just got my first NSX five months ago. Good luck with your search.
 
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That 99 Red seems a bit on the cheap - is it a salvage? Makes me wonder. A 99 with 48k miles for 30k - anyone else wondering??? Sumpin smells bad to me here as in NO WAY if it a straight one with good history it should sell for a lot more than 30k. Or is that your point?


 
heySkippy you are incredible. Thanks a ton. I can't believe how awesome the Prime community has been in my short exposure. You basically confirmed what I was thinking, that there would be body or maybe frame problems after the rebuild. The auction site mentioned undercarriage as the primary damage, but I don't know how you get to a $32K estimate without frame being involved.

mknmoves, I didn't mean to imply the car was a scam at all... the reason for the inclusion of the quote was a justification for posting the thread, since it didn't sound like a scam, but it did (in my limited experience) seem out of line on price with that title. You confirmed that for me, thanks a lot! If I was to go for something sooner than later, it'd either be something like the one you just sold (didn't have my finances in line a month ago :(), or I'd just hold out for a 3.2 T. Or get an '05 for 40k on eBay :biggrin:

I saw this car immediately when it popped up on autotrader and ebay just over a month ago. I talked to shawn on here for a bit and he could immediately tell that work was done on the engine and whoever did it... didn't do a good job. I immediately passed on it. It just seems to sketchy.

Like you, I'm holding out until I find one that I'm more willing to work with.
 
"That 99 Red seems a bit on the cheap - is it a salvage? Makes me wonder. A 99 with 48k miles for 30k - anyone else wondering??? Sumpin smells bad to me here as in NO WAY if it a straight one with good history it should sell for a lot more than 30k. Or is that your point?"



My point is that good deals exist, especially in this economy.

The red one may not suit everyones taste, and they may have taken it in for the right price. I don't know any of the history on the car, but I do know it has a clean title.
 
I actually rather like that red one. The tan looks a little overly yellow but I'd blame camera/lighting for that. I might not have done the red accent on the wheels, but it's no breaker.
 
I actually rather like that red one. The tan looks a little overly yellow but I'd blame camera/lighting for that. I might not have done the red accent on the wheels, but it's no breaker.


It seems like a good deal. Reach out for a PRIME member to check it out for you.
 
It seems like a good deal. Reach out for a PRIME member to check it out for you.

Before I do anything like impose on someone, I want to do my own legwork, and make sure my financial ducks are in a row (which I cant do till I can cal the broker in the AM).

Anyway a casual VIN research turned up a few interesting things regarding an accident. And this one has been sitting on their lot for at least half a year.

Anyway, don't wanna turn this into a hijack... all in all, mknmoves... I shoulda bought your 95 ...
 
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The red one has been for sale for a long time. I think he bought it in Fla. at an auction. I spoke with the dealer back in Feb/March. You might be able to see other comments on the car doing an archive search or wiki...
 
Listen with a price like 30 on a 99 you can be sure there is something hidden and wrong. I've been looking at these long enough to know just by the price if there is something fishy and this red one smells.....
 
Listen with a price like 30 on a 99 you can be sure there is something hidden and wrong. I've been looking at these long enough to know just by the price if there is something fishy and this red one smells.....

In your opinion how much should it be?
 
In your opinion how much should it be?

Well, it's an NA2, 99 with about 48k miles - if everything else was equal and it was clean as in no accident history or some other hidden issue, probably accident, then it should be listed around 38k - something like that. If it was an individual, with records showing proper maintenance, clean history, no accidents and original paint - that's not a bad price - 38k. Now if it needs a clutch well that's a biggy and the list of things we all look for goes on and on and I won't go into that.

So when you see a car like this listed down at 30k which is less than I'd consider selling my 91 for with all I've done to it - well you know something is wrong. I have no need of another, don't like red and black, but if I did and was looking I would be very quick to pass this one. I might check it out a bit but I doubt that it's the car for me.

I'm a purist though and I look for total stock form and if I want some body kit or other mods I can do them - that's just another little thing from my own perspective - others may like the body kit or side skirts. I always wonder if that's hiding something. I'm suspicous by nature though and that happens with age after many cars. The other thing that turns me off is that this one's been for sale a long time and it's at a dealer and I bet the records for it are non existent. Another major turn off when looking at these little dealers that buy out of auctions looking for a quick buck. Not a good way to buy in my opinion.

Hope that's enough to give you an idea of why I don't think this ones right.
 
Well, it's an NA2, 99 with about 48k miles - if everything else was equal and it was clean as in no accident history or some other hidden issue, probably accident, then it should be listed around 38k - something like that. If it was an individual, with records showing proper maintenance, clean history, no accidents and original paint - that's not a bad price - 38k. Now if it needs a clutch well that's a biggy and the list of things we all look for goes on and on and I won't go into that.

So when you see a car like this listed down at 30k which is less than I'd consider selling my 91 for with all I've done to it - well you know something is wrong. I have no need of another, don't like red and black, but if I did and was looking I would be very quick to pass this one. I might check it out a bit but I doubt that it's the car for me.

I'm a purist though and I look for total stock form and if I want some body kit or other mods I can do them - that's just another little thing from my own perspective - others may like the body kit or side skirts. I always wonder if that's hiding something. I'm suspicous by nature though and that happens with age after many cars. The other thing that turns me off is that this one's been for sale a long time and it's at a dealer and I bet the records for it are non existent. Another major turn off when looking at these little dealers that buy out of auctions looking for a quick buck. Not a good way to buy in my opinion.

Hope that's enough to give you an idea of why I don't think this ones right.

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My point on this red one is good deals exist. Right now NSXs like many highline cars are all over the board price wise, it doesn't matter what year they are.


Personally I still think this red one is a good deal, if it can be purchased for under 30k, and I bet it could be. I always like to have records when I buy a car, but it's never a deal breaker for me, if the price is right.

If I buy a car and don't have proof of work done I factor it in. I think in this case the dealer may have done this. Personally I don't care how many times the brakes were done, I just want to know the last time they were done. I don't need receipts from day one, just the latest stuff. I don't need to know the timing belt was replaced 3 times, just the last time it was done, etc, but that's just me, and again no records, factor it in.


I think what you are saying is at 38k it should be an accident free clean car with records, but if it has a minor bump on CARFAX or AUTOCHECK (which I don't know if it does) and has no records its not worth 30k? With the 8k differnce you could do TB/WP and still have 5k left IF something else went wrong. To me this is the way to go. I personally would rather get the car cheaper, and have the difference in cash just in case.

What you also stated about color, body kit, etc is something I said earlier this car may not appeal to everyone. I bet it looks better in person, but still probably not for me, once again a reason it may not have sold.

All this being said I still think at under 30k this car is a deal, accident or no accident, records or no records.

BTW: I am also reffering to one of your latest post, if the ZANARDI is a great oppurtunity because of the accident, wouldn't this 99 be a great deal also, just on a different level?

Just my $.02 I am just trying to give you a different perspective.

Don't yell at me Tim.:smile:

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Re: Zanardi #8 on Ebay... JH4NA2120XT000134
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->It will be interesting to see where this bid ends up! Obviously with its sketchy history it is not for the purist looking for that pristine example like Ella'sD got, but still wouldn't you say it may be a decent canditdate? I mean if it is as Chris@SOS says as in only superficial damage I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker and guys with only 50 of these units out there and being driven like they SHOULD be they will only begin to decrease in numbers and Zanardis like this one will still be valuable. My guess is eventually very valuable.

You see when you look at other classic cars that have been around for 40 to 60 years a respray is more the norm than anything else. There are guys out there that race these classic priceless jewel Ferraris (and other classics) in classic car races all around the country and they do get banged up from time to time - does this diminish their value??? To some it just adds to the race history provinance! In other words get used to it - as our cars continue to age - there will be more and more of them with some damage history and that's just the nature of cars that are used and driven.

So point I'm trying to make, that while some of you may turn your noses up at cars like this one - others may see it as an opportunity to get hold of a rare one at a decent price with a little body work that truly is no big deal. If that is the case and I certainly haven't done all the homework on this one that it would warrant given its past, then it may be a good deal!

I bet Ella'sD might just agree with me in part. What say the rest of you?
 
yeah but if you look at the pictures the rear wheel was bent, so there is more that meets the eye. and when the wheel is bent inward isnt that the same a frame damage? I mean to bent a wheel that bolted to the frame had to be one hell of a hit ya know..
 
yeah but if you look at the pictures the rear wheel was bent, so there is more that meets the eye. and when the wheel is bent inward isnt that the same a frame damage? I mean to bent a wheel that bolted to the frame had to be one hell of a hit ya know..

I don't see where the wheel is bent? Are you talking about the camber of the rear wheels?

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Here is the CARFAX link; it had a light front hit

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory...NA2163XT000101


11/15/2003 30,000 Collision Repair Facility
Virginia

Vehicle inspected after an accident or other incident
Damage to left front

A vehicle inspection completed by your dealer or professional
inspector is recommended
__________________
 
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I don't see where the wheel is bent? Are you talking about the camber of the rear wheels?

Might be referring to this pic

6254745_4_I.jpeg
 
Might be referring to this pic

6254745_4_I.jpeg


Thanks for clearing that up, I thought he was talking about the 99 red.
I think we should have started a new thread just for the red one, but I think another thread existed in January 2010.
 
Makenmoves,

I'm not going to yell at you bud; geez I must be getting a bad reputation or something. We all talk about this stuff all the time and I actually agree with you in pricipal.

Oh, ubercheap, we're talking about a red 99 that Makinmoves found not the black on. I guess I kind of or we kind of hi jacked this thread a bit.

The red one that "M" is talking about and I was commenting on is for sale at 30k or right at it. He also mentioned another thread I wrote to on a Zanardi - and right you are in a manner of speaking. If the damage was only superficial it may be ok - but I will say this if you are not planning to keep it a long time it can be difficult to explain things to the next owner and I wouldn't recommend getting into something you can't get out of fairly easily. That's why no one recommends a salvage title cause it is almost impossible to explain your way out of that one.

But short of it is that you have a point and it may be a good deal if you can substantuate thru a good body man you trust that the car is straight. Good point. The lower the cost is the more likely there is more to the damage than meets the casual look.

See I didn't bite your head off - I'm actually agreeing with you:wink:
 
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