Big brake kit cost benefits?

[skyline23]

Hi guys,
I have been toying with the idea of upgrading my front brakes to Brembos or stoptechs, and wanted to see if anyone has any experience or information on how many track days/sessions their bigger rotors last compared to stock..It looks like Brembo or stoptech replacement rotors are about 3-4 times the cost of stock sized rotors, but was wondering if maybe they last 3-4 times as long so at least replacement costs becomes a wash or maybe even better?

Any input on this would be great. thanks in advance!

 

[asylum]

Good question. I would like to know too. 1000 track miles being typically what I can get from the stock rotors.

 

[DDozier]

I have the Tar-Ox BBK, so may not be helpfull to compare these to the Brembo or Stoptech but, I have had the same set of rotors and calipers on my '91 tracked CTSC NSX and now on my '04 tracked Twin Turbo NSX. I am on the same rotors and calipers for about 5 years of track use with some maybe 10k track miles and 10k street miles and only one set of pads front and rear. This is not tipical for a BBK but it is for the Tar-Ox setup and is one of the reasons I bought my '91 as the preveous owner already had them installed. They simply last longer than any other setup I have seen or used. My first '92 NSX I tracked for about 5 years on OEM brakes with Hawk pads, lots of extra cooling ducts, and still would get about a single track season out of the rotors and pads twice a year. When I went to the '91 CTSC it already had the Tar-Ox BBK kit installed as the car was tracked by the original owner and from what I have been told alot. I liked the setup enough to move it over to the '04 and have an entire season on them on the new car. Had to put pads on about mid way through the year as the rear pads were close to being done. The fronts had about two maybe three more weekends but I changed them all at once. I am guessing the rotors will have to be replaced after this next season but they show no signs of cracking just wearing thin.

I believe they are still available from Tar-Ox at least they show fitment on their site. Pads are pricey but they last 2 maybe 3 to 1 of the others so really they are cheaper in the long run. They do not show it on their site but the hot setup for track and the most ballanced without the need for the proporsioning valve is the 10 piston front/6 piston rear. They will make anything you want as far as rotor style and caliper color.
http://www.tarox.us/brake-systems/honda-nsx.html

Dave

Here they are on the '91 after many years of track use, they have since been powder coated in red as the prior owner had them painted red:

And now recoated on my '04:

 

[Hapa88]

If you take into account the initial price of a BBK then there is absolutely NO COST Benefit to getting a BBK. PERIOD.

Think about it.
Price of new OEM front rotors: $150
Carbotech XP10 front pads: $185

Price of Stoptech BBK front (which comes with a street pad): $2100
Price of Carbotech pads to Stoptech: $200

Price difference of $1965. That means you can get almost 6 sets of brand new pads and rotors for the price of the front BBK.

Of course, Cost isn't the only thing to consider.. Performance is something else...

 

[liftnot]

I believe they are still available from Tar-Ox at least they show fitment on their site. Pads are pricey but they last 2 maybe 3 to 1 of the others so really they are cheaper in the long run. They do not show it on their site but the hot setup for track and the most ballanced without the need for the proporsioning valve is the 10 piston front/6 piston rear. They will make anything you want as far as rotor style and caliper color.
http://www.tarox.us/brake-systems/honda-nsx.html

FYI, [email protected] (760-401-0253) is a Tarox dealer.

 

[RYU]

I have a Rotora BBK kit. I had little expectation of them being any good but to much of my surprise.. I LOVE THEM.

I've gone thru various pad compounds on my stock NA2 brakes. Whatever I ended up with has never been a good balance between street and track. The track pads I liked squeaked like crazy on the street and never really got to temp or were too grabby when cold. The street pads heated up too quickly and faded. The in-between pads where, well.. in between. This caused me to swap brake pads track side - which can be a real inconvenience.

On my BBK I have a relatively street friendly pad but because the surface area is so huge they never fade and have performed great (surprisingly!)... they also seem to be lasting forever with a few track days on them already.

From a convenience and performance perspective.. having the BBK is a no brainer. Budget wise.. stay with the NA2 setup.

Also, if you have an NA1 setup... do yourself a favor and swap to an NA2. The NA1s are no match for today's stickier and wider tires.

 

[mochanges]

Adding Stoptechs to the front are the single best thing I've done to my car. I felt that the stock brakes were weak even on the highway, and I had ducts, steel mesh lines, ATE Blue fluid, EBC Yellowstuff pads and new rotors. The Stoptechs, with the pads they come with, are amazing on track. Much better feel, way more solid, reliable and repeatable stops. No need for upgraded pads, at least for me, which lowers the cost and reduces wear on the rotors. Don't think twice about it. BTW, buy them from THMotorsports, best pricing I've seen anywhere and I looked everywhere. About $1,700 for fronts only, plus they have coupon codes all the time, they even post the codes on their site.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

Adding Stoptechs to the front are the single best thing I've done to my car. I felt that the stock brakes were weak even on the highway, and I had ducts, steel mesh lines, ATE Blue fluid, EBC Yellowstuff pads and new rotors. The Stoptechs, with the pads they come with, are amazing on track. Much better feel, way more solid, reliable and repeatable stops. No need for upgraded pads, at least for me, which lowers the cost and reduces wear on the rotors. Don't think twice about it. BTW, buy them from THMotorsports, best pricing I've seen anywhere and I looked everywhere. About $1,700 for fronts only, plus they have coupon codes all the time, they even post the codes on their site.

the problem is you were using ebc, i don't really think the "stock" stoptech pads are all that great, put that on my 1.6 stock miata, and it's way worse than the stock pad i had.

to OP, it really depends on your track driving style and your skill level. i would say the stock size 2 pieces stoptech rotors pairing with good race pads would be the most cost effective ways.

I love my BBK setup, I have to admit my driving style needs to be adapted and relearn to take that 1-1.5 second advantage. The biggest improvement is the bigger heat sink allowing me to dive into corner deeper and later without worrying brake shuddering, that, I assumed helps prolonging rotor's life.

However, the biggest cost of getting bbk isn't just the initial cost, if you don't have the right wheels to accomodate... it could cost you thousands of dollars more, and times 2 set of wheels... it could cost quite a bit. I ended up getting a pair of DF fenders so I can still keep my TE37 with usage of spacers and a new set of cheaper track rims and sold my advan.

 

[NetViper]

I loved my brembos but I don't feel like they were THAT much better than my oems with ate blue and upgraded pads. They sure looked better though.

 

[nsxnut]

If you take into account the initial price of a BBK then there is absolutely NO COST Benefit to getting a BBK. PERIOD.

Think about it.
Price of new OEM front rotors: $150
Carbotech XP10 front pads: $185

Price of Stoptech BBK front (which comes with a street pad): $2100
Price of Carbotech pads to Stoptech: $200

Price difference of $1965. That means you can get almost 6 sets of brand new pads and rotors for the price of the front BBK.

Of course, Cost isn't the only thing to consider.. Performance is something else...

Being able to late break into the Andretti hairpin at Laguna Seca… Price less.

Get a BBK if you track your car and need it.

 

[docjohn]

rotor wear is a function of pad/usage....street driving will not stress the rotors of a bbk anymore than oem rotors.using a bbk for the track is helpful if you personaly have maxed the efficiency of the oem system and are still getting heat soak related issues,or an inconsistent brake performance.Again only an experienced tracker or instructer level driver can determine whether the weakness is in the equipment or the driver.

 

[nsxnut]

I have the Tar-Ox BBK, so may not be helpfull to compare these to the Brembo or Stoptech but, I have had the same set of rotors and calipers on my '91 tracked CTSC NSX and now on my '04 tracked Twin Turbo NSX. I am on the same rotors and calipers for about 5 years of track use with some maybe 10k track miles and 10k street miles and only one set of pads front and rear. This is not tipical for a BBK but it is for the Tar-Ox setup and is one of the reasons I bought my '91 as the preveous owner already had them installed.

I have had Tarox break kit for about 11 years.
When I first bought them they were the only kit that would fit under the stock 16/17 rims.
Initially I got front calipers, brackets for rear and larger rotors on all 4 corners. Bias was not ideal.

I have since upgraded it for tarox calipers on all 4 corners. :smile:Tarox sold them to me.
The rotors and pads last forever. The pads are very Large and thick. I can’t say these are better or worse than Stoptech or Brembo?
If you contact Tarox they will sell you replacement parts. I am not aware of a source in the US.

I found a company that sells an Alcon pad where they cut the backing plate to fit the tarox rotor. Once done they look just like a Tarox pad.
I have been using raybestos ST41 compound. These are amazing.



Later,
Don

 

[skyline23]

Thanks for all the responses, guys...Where does everyone get their replacement stoptech, brembo, or Tarox rotors? And are these kits only compatible with the rotors they make, or can you get other brands that fit as well, which are cheaper?

 

[nsxnut]

Only source for Tarox rotors that I know of is from Tarox directly.
Although overseas they I usually receive in less than a week once I place the order.
Exchange rate us to euro is not ideal.

 

[RYU]

Thanks for all the responses, guys...Where does everyone get their replacement stoptech, brembo, or Tarox rotors? And are these kits only compatible with the rotors they make, or can you get other brands that fit as well, which are cheaper?

in my experience rotors tend to be proprietary.

You can also add Rotora to your options list. They basically copied the Stoptech NSX brake bias but redesigned the piston sizes to accommodate larger rotors. I've been plenty surprised with the performance of mine.

 

[DDozier]

Only source for Tarox rotors that I know of is from Tarox directly.
Although overseas they I usually receive in less than a week once I place the order.
Exchange rate us to euro is not ideal.

They now have a distribution method in the US, if you call the US number you get the guys in England and the parts ship from Italy (whatever works). I had no problem getting tech support when I had questions other than the time difference, The US website lists prices in Dollars so I think you just have freight to worry about.

http://www.tarox.us/

Dave

 

[CL65 Captain]

They now have a distribution method in the US, if you call the US number you get the guys in England and the parts ship from Italy (whatever works).

At least that's better than Dell where you call and get Mombai, India and the "phone goes green, green, green... they pink it up, and say yellow. Thank you for calling Dell this is Bob how may I help you?"

 

[mochanges]

Thanks for all the responses, guys...Where does everyone get their replacement stoptech, brembo, or Tarox rotors? And are these kits only compatible with the rotors they make, or can you get other brands that fit as well, which are cheaper?

You can get Stoptech replacements here: http://zeckhausen.com/StopTech/consumables.htm. Racing Brake also makes a replacement disc for Stoptech.

- - - Updated - - -

the problem is you were using ebc, i don't really think the "stock" stoptech pads are all that great, put that on my 1.6 stock miata, and it's way worse than the stock pad i had.

to OP, it really depends on your track driving style and your skill level. i would say the stock size 2 pieces stoptech rotors pairing with good race pads would be the most cost effective ways.

I love my BBK setup, I have to admit my driving style needs to be adapted and relearn to take that 1-1.5 second advantage. The biggest improvement is the bigger heat sink allowing me to dive into corner deeper and later without worrying brake shuddering, that, I assumed helps prolonging rotor's life.

However, the biggest cost of getting bbk isn't just the initial cost, if you don't have the right wheels to accomodate... it could cost you thousands of dollars more, and times 2 set of wheels... it could cost quite a bit. I ended up getting a pair of DF fenders so I can still keep my TE37 with usage of spacers and a new set of cheaper track rims and sold my advan.

Not sure about EBC being the problem, I've run a bunch of different brands and compounds and the EBC yellow were a good compromise pad. The included Stoptech pads are a good compromise pad as well.

 

[docjohn]

lol.. if the newer owners were to read this thread they'd probably be wondering why they had never heard of tarox brakes...back in the day these became "noticed" because they were low profile and able to fit under the oem 94 and up 16/17 wheels.Actualy I think it was MJ of Dali inflamy who kinda put these on the radar.

 

[Honcho]

Call me crazy, but I use NA1 rotors with Dali brake deflectors, Carbotech XP8 pads, and ATE Typ 200 fluid. On street rubber at stock power, this combo is excellent. We have a big back straight where you go from 120 mph to 60 mph over and over and I never had any fade even after a 30 minute session at 95 F ambient. I can see if you are using R-comps or slicks and/or have FI where a BBK might make sense. But otherwise, it is just bling to me.

 

[DDozier]

Call me crazy, but I use NA1 rotors with Dali brake deflectors, Carbotech XP8 pads, and ATE Typ 200 fluid. On street rubber at stock power, this combo is excellent. We have a big back straight where you go from 120 mph to 60 mph over and over and I never had any fade even after a 30 minute session at 95 F ambient. I can see if you are using R-comps or slicks and/or have FI where a BBK might make sense. But otherwise, it is just bling to me.

When I was tracking my stock 92 with just pads and brake duct upgrades things were fine, or at least I did not know any better then. When I added the CTSC and then the twin turbos things just happen a lot faster. The straight you are hitting 120mph in a stockish NA NSX would likely be 145-150mph in my turbo NSX but the 60mph corner speed would be no different, so the stock brakes will need a lot of help to deal with the added heat and on brake time. Make the move to R-Comps and you will actually need less time on the brakes due to the increased grip level of the tire. Higher grip means more braking potencial, later braking, and less time on the binders.

Dave

 

[RYU]

When I was tracking my stock 92 with just pads and brake duct upgrades things were fine, or at least I did not know any better then. When I added the CTSC and then the twin turbos things just happen a lot faster. The straight you are hitting 120mph in a stockish NA NSX would likely be 145-150mph in my turbo NSX but the 60mph corner speed would be no different, so the stock brakes will need a lot of help to deal with the added heat and on brake time. Make the move to R-Comps and you will actually need less time on the brakes due to the increased grip level of the tire. Higher grip means more braking potencial, later braking, and less time on the binders.

Dave

In addition to this the confidence and overall improvement in feel is worth it. Late braking while your passenger is pushed into their seatbelt is priceless. I do agree that if you're not constantly chasing the lap timer you can have plenty of fun w/ the NA1s. Ignorance is bliss (don't mean this in a bad way Paul).

 

[skyline23]

Only source for Tarox rotors that I know of is from Tarox directly.
Although overseas they I usually receive in less than a week once I place the order.
Exchange rate us to euro is not ideal.

I tried contacting Tarox but couldn't get a hold of them..Does anyone have an idea of how much replacement rotors for Tarox cost?

thanks,
Shaun

 

[nsxnut]

I have emailed them and they will respond the following day.
I don't know the price.

 

[DDozier]

I tried contacting Tarox but couldn't get a hold of them..Does anyone have an idea of how much replacement rotors for Tarox cost?

thanks,
Shaun

If you get pricing info make sure you price with and without the hats, also they offer many different slot designs that may impact price, and the offer Forged Billet rotors that most certainly effect the price of the rotor. Either way whatever you find out please post it hear or start another thread so we all know without asking some poor Italian guy the same question 5 or 10 times.

Dave