bbsc 8psi low comp engine finished

[peiserg]

Blew my HG, had it put back together with an ARP HG that effectively lowered my compression to 9.5:1 from 10.2.

Went from 7 psi to 8.4 psi pulley at same time

Upgraded to walbro HP fuel pump

Alkycontrol progressive alcohol (meth) injection system

FM heat exchanger air/water

tuned by tony at UMS in mesa.

hit 380 rwhp and about 260+ rwtq. Using the meth to add safety rather than power.

I actually lost about 10 tq and moderate rwhp. Tony feels the increased boost is offset by my lowered compression. The progressive meth spray kicks in around 2 psi and progressively increases until about 6 psi where it maxes out until redline.

this is with aem/fic on a MY 2000 nsx. Car averaging 20 mpg mixed city/hwy with frequent runs to 8000 rpm. car drives as stock. no CEL's, no stalling, no problems with starts.

this is pretty much the forced induction system i had in my head 5 years ago when i started down this trail (minus the horrifying expense i just incurred when my HG let go).

will upload graphs in a bit.

 

[warren1205]

Honestly! You need to bump the boost to 13 psi!!! or don't take any timing off! A bone stock motor with 100K miles, hg upgrade with a proper tune at 8psi most likely never have any problems daily driven only with proper fuel management and air cooler.

1. lowered your compression
2. added a meth kit
3. fm heat exchanger
that = formula for more power!

I blew my stock 100K mile hg with 15 psi w/fic. Took 6K miles! I'm going to re-tune for 15psi AGAIN with stock compression, meth kit, fic, cometic hg, arp head studs and other little things as soon as i replace the clutch!

 

[warren1205]

there are others running that same kit with just a air cooler pushing 8 psi and getting 420whp on a 3.0. It seems to me it's a really weak tune (respectfully of course). Plenty of people out there running 450whp bone bone stock and have a lot of time with it problem free.

 

[snakey]

Id have to respectfully agree....These days..380 rwhp and 3150 pounds isnt much. Id guess that you could possibly run a 12.2 at 117 mph in good conditions with good driving...


You lowered the compression and added meth..Why not put on a minimum of a 10 psi pully and hit 420 rwhp and have a car that can hit an 11.9 at 120 mph???

AND ATLEASTE BE COMPETITIVE WITH THE BONE STOCK GTR'S AND C6Z06'S AND VIPERS HITTING THE MARKET THESE DAYS

 

[peiserg]

there are others running that same kit with just a air cooler pushing 8 psi and getting 420whp on a 3.0. It seems to me it's a really weak tune (respectfully of course). Plenty of people out there running 450whp bone bone stock and have a lot of time with it problem free.

Ok, kindly point me to the thread on the "450 rwhp" bone bone stock car.

er, yeah I noticed the 420 rwhp thread. I've had my nsx pushing close to this power level for 48,000 miles. Please update me in 47,995 miles when that car is still on the original bone stock parts.

Snakey, no offense here, but lead by example... You've got a "weak sauce" 305 rwhp... show me the way, perhaps I can follow?

Oh, as a response to the supposition of weak tunes, Tony at UMS did add timing... the car didn't make any more power so he took it away.

 

[warren1205]

what are your afr? Maybe too much on the meth? I don't know what your afr's are, but you can easily tune at 12.8 with meth. When he advanced the timing did you happen to see your egt's and compared them with adding and subtracting?

 

[warren1205]

there are others running that same kit with just a air cooler pushing 8 psi and getting 420whp on a 3.0. It seems to me it's a really weak tune (respectfully of course). Plenty of people out there running 450whp bone bone stock and have a lot of time with it problem free.

I meant to say 420.
Hey man, sorry if was a bit out of line. great to see that it's running well. I see a lot of potential in that setup.

 

[onestepx]

Hey Peiserg Congrats on your new set-up . Did you say you blew the head gasket with only 5 psi before ? Are you using the after cooler that came with the bacsh kit or after market

 

[snakey]

Ok, kindly point me to the thread on the "450 rwhp" bone bone stock car.

er, yeah I noticed the 420 rwhp thread. I've had my nsx pushing close to this power level for 48,000 miles. Please update me in 47,995 miles when that car is still on the original bone stock parts.

Snakey, no offense here, but lead by example... You've got a "weak sauce" 305 rwhp... show me the way, perhaps I can follow?

Oh, as a response to the supposition of weak tunes, Tony at UMS did add timing... the car didn't make any more power so he took it away.

Hey man get it right. Its 310 rwhp..He he he..Ive had Vipers around 500 rwhp and 3300 pounds.It feels good having a car that fast. You could be that fast with a simple pulley change and tune and it would be SAFE after what you just had done...

My nsx dynoed that 310 rwhp on a one time only hot engine run with a clutch that went out two weeks later and a header leak ( It's in a shop being all redone and retuned right now)

Ill be getting a AEM and 7 psi pulley soon and it wouldnt surprise me to much if she was around 380 rwhp with those simple mods..Thats the point....You spent all that money. why settle for a number that lots of people hit on bone stock engines??????????????????????????????


hey man im sorry. I just reread and saw that you have a ctsc...thats a good number for a ctsc. For some reason i was thinking you had a BBSC..In wich case that number was a bit low

 

[v8killer]

Glad to see you getting the kinks worked out on your car. There is alot to be said for 380 RELIABLE horsepower.After having 3 engines grenade on me with the BBSC I would have been stoked to have your set up if it didn't blow up.

There are alot of people making more power but for me I would take the 380 rwhp with a huge safety factor anyday with the BBSC.

 

[peiserg]

Glad to see you getting the kinks worked out on your car. There is alot to be said for 380 RELIABLE horsepower.After having 3 engines grenade on me with the BBSC I would have been stoked to have your set up if it didn't blow up.

There are alot of people making more power but for me I would take the 380 rwhp with a huge safety factor anyday with the BBSC.

thanks wayne. I feel your pain!! I don't know how you hung on (sanity wise i mean) through 3 engines. BTW i've been meaning to hook up with you. I want to see "The Monster." And i don't mean the trouser snake.

The meth was added ONLY after the tuning was done. purely as a safety net. nothing more.

I have full faith in Tony Szirca's ability to tune for each individual's application. I'm hoping for another 48,000 miles at least.

This is a BBSC. Yeah I know i saw the 420 rwhp thread. I even posted in it. There's only one other bbsc i know of making that power level at that low boost level. Tony couldn't explain it other than perhaps fuel, ambient temp (its almost 90 here...even now!). He easily tuned v8killer's car to 500+ rwhp, black o1s4 to 640rwhp, etc.. I'm on stock pistons and rings. I plan on keeping them as long as possible.

I will admit i wanted 400 rwhp... who doesnt? But I put my faith in UMS tuning, and if he says 380 is the safe limit, so be it. I've been waiting on a 9lb pulley for 4 months...or is it 5 months now. maybe when it shows up I'll go back...

head gasket went with 7.2psi, after 48,000 boosted miles.

no offense snakey. and if I were to start over, with the probable $15k i have into the set up ($7k bbsc, $3k aftercooler, $1k guages, $1k FJO wideband, $2k meth), I would prob go turbo, mainly because of the low end torque. But I've already got the system, it's been dialed in for 2 years now without so much as a hiccup. Now with the AEM fic, the thing is just off the hook from a driveability standpoint. Enemy of good is better, in my line of work. Not to mention the downtime, and likely unexpected hassles along the way.


the aftercooler was supplied by mark basch. I have the original unit under the engine hatch. I had him replace my ghetto fabulous front mount heat exchanger with a twin pass aluminum heat exchanger custom fabbed for the application. Looks like the car came from honda with it. seriously. looks that good.
gerry

 

[snakey]

thanks wayne. I feel your pain!! I don't know how you hung on (sanity wise i mean) through 3 engines. BTW i've been meaning to hook up with you. I want to see "The Monster." And i don't mean the trouser snake.

The meth was added ONLY after the tuning was done. purely as a safety net. nothing more.

I have full faith in Tony Szirca's ability to tune for each individual's application. I'm hoping for another 48,000 miles at least.

This is a BBSC. Yeah I know i saw the 420 rwhp thread. I even posted in it. There's only one other bbsc i know of making that power level at that low boost level. Tony couldn't explain it other than perhaps fuel, ambient temp (its almost 90 here...even now!). He easily tuned v8killer's car to 500+ rwhp, black o1s4 to 640rwhp, etc.. I'm on stock pistons and rings. I plan on keeping them as long as possible.

I will admit i wanted 400 rwhp... who doesnt? But I put my faith in UMS tuning, and if he says 380 is the safe limit, so be it. I've been waiting on a 9lb pulley for 4 months...or is it 5 months now. maybe when it shows up I'll go back...

head gasket went with 7.2psi, after 48,000 boosted miles.

no offense snakey. and if I were to start over, with the probable $15k i have into the set up ($7k bbsc, $3k aftercooler, $1k guages, $1k FJO wideband, $2k meth), I would prob go turbo, mainly because of the low end torque. But I've already got the system, it's been dialed in for 2 years now without so much as a hiccup. Now with the AEM fic, the thing is just off the hook from a driveability standpoint. Enemy of good is better, in my line of work. Not to mention the downtime, and likely unexpected hassles along the way.


the aftercooler was supplied by mark basch. I have the original unit under the engine hatch. I had him replace my ghetto fabulous front mount heat exchanger with a twin pass aluminum heat exchanger custom fabbed for the application. Looks like the car came from honda with it. seriously. looks that good.
gerry

Sweet..... my version 2 SS box just got tuned today. They said i was running extremely rich...

So like I already think I had posted. I dynoed the 310 rwhp on a hot engine one time only pull with a header leak and a clutch that went out 2 weeks later as well as an extremely rich tune....

IM VERY interested to see what kinda number I get with all of that now corrected...

My buddy with his 05 nsx and I are gonna cruise all day to hurry up and get those 500 miles so I can go dyno this thing before the AEM/pulley ect.

Im honestly expecting 340-360 rwhp off the 5 psi. Hope Im not too disapointed

 

[snakey]

Glad to see you getting the kinks worked out on your car. There is alot to be said for 380 RELIABLE horsepower.After having 3 engines grenade on me with the BBSC I would have been stoked to have your set up if it didn't blow up.

There are alot of people making more power but for me I would take the 380 rwhp with a huge safety factor anyday with the BBSC.

Hey V8 KILLER..Im surprised that you only trapped 127 mph in a 3100 pound 500 rwhp car???????Where you running at a high altitude or bad conditions? What contributed to this low mph?

That combo of 500rwhp plus 3100 pounds should be good for 130 mph ..

Have you trapped higher than the 127 mph but just reported the 127 as it went hand and hand with your 11.3 pass?

Thanks

 

[NetViper]

Snakey, why on earth are you still running the SSBOX? If you care about your car at all you will dump that peice of crap and get an AEM.

 

[NetViper]

this is with aem/fic on a MY 2000 nsx. Car averaging 20 mpg mixed city/hwy with frequent runs to 8000 rpm. car drives as stock. no CEL's, no stalling, no problems with starts.

this is pretty much the forced induction system i had in my head 5 years ago when i started down this trail (minus the horrifying expense i just incurred when my HG let go).

will upload graphs in a bit.

When is your boost coming on? It think I had 2lbs at 2000rpm. Hudson overspun his BBSC so he was making boost at idle and then blew it off at 8psi. He was right at 383 rwhp I think. That might be an option for you especially with methanol for safety. Get 9psi sooner and hold it longer.

Regardless, I would have taken a RELIABLE 380 ALL DAY LONG over my 412.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Snakey, why on earth are you still running the SSBOX? If you care about your car at all you will dump that peice of crap and get an AEM.

Well, at least he is running the V2 of it and not the V1 like he wanted to.
I agree though, I would certainly use something other than that if you are truly concerned with boosting safely.

 

[v8killer]

Hey V8 KILLER..Im surprised that you only trapped 127 mph in a 3100 pound 500 rwhp car???????Where you running at a high altitude or bad conditions? What contributed to this low mph?


That is the only pass I made at 14lbs. (11.3@127, 1.77 60ft.). I made a few passes at 11lbs. (11.6at 120, 1.72 60ft.).Almost no burnout and 32lbs in tires.
I know I can 60ft. faster with more aggessive burnout and dropping air pressure.The car can probably go 11.0 on DR and mid to high 10's on slicks.

Its a little warmer here in Phoenix than most places and probably contributed to my incredibly pokey trap speed.:smile:

 

[snakey]

Hey V8 KILLER..Im surprised that you only trapped 127 mph in a 3100 pound 500 rwhp car???????Where you running at a high altitude or bad conditions? What contributed to this low mph?


That is the only pass I made at 14lbs. (11.3@127, 1.77 60ft.). I made a few passes at 11lbs. (11.6at 120, 1.72 60ft.).Almost no burnout and 32lbs in tires.
I know I can 60ft. faster with more aggessive burnout and dropping air pressure.The car can probably go 11.0 on DR and mid to high 10's on slicks.

Its a little warmer here in Phoenix than most places and probably contributed to my incredibly pokey trap speed.:smile:

Never mind. Thats a damn good trap/et for a one only pass in phenix weather..Congrats

 

[Elite]

I'm not sure which 420whp bbsc you are quoting. But if you are quoting the one I did the air to air on back in the day, the ring lands failed(with the split second box) a long time back and the car now has a low comp built motor with AEM(for the last couple years).. That car had the bbsc on it when I met him, we did the air to air..

 

[peiserg]

Ok kiddies..

Hope you've brought along a change in underwear.

I decided, after a ride in v8killer's SOS built monster, that I needed an upgrade to my exhaust. I've been running a 100% stock exhaust system since day 1 with my bbsc.

I contacted SOS, they were very helpful and professional. I told them my overriding concern was for drone. They pointed me to the Cantrell enduralite exhaust. Works great. quite a bit louder than i wanted at WOT, but at cruising speed, it is barely above stock! and no drone. wahoo!

I waffled a bit on the racing cats. I initially opted for them, then changed my mind before SOS installed them. I took the car to Basch's shop for a belt tightening, and before dropping it off, opted again for the racing cats. Mark was also very helpful, with both the belt tightening and cat install. AND I managed to get in and out of his shop in under a day, which may be a first for me!

I then took the car back to the same shop, UMS tuning (so named for the son of the owner.. Ullrich)

BAM. Same boost level (8.5). Same tank of 91 octane. Same dyno.

FORTY SEVEN more RWHP! Even Tony the tuner was amazed.

The car is NOT tuned for meth. the Meth is added as a safety net. Initially, on the old exhaust, the meth did richen up the system, but added zero rwhp/tq. NOW, with the racing cats/exhaust.. the meth bumped me from 408 rwhp to 426.. with NO timing or fuel added.

Hope the graph works.. you see two graphs there.. the lower one is "meth free" and the higher HP/tq is "meth-head"

Now all you guys who wouldn't shut your pie holes that 378 rwhp was "vagina" level tuning.... is this enough for you?

 

[sjs]

Excellent! Although my neck is a bit stiff from reading the chart.

 

[annointed]

Impressive how much of a difference freeing up the exhaust on a FI system can make. I know on my 20g turbo Forester XT (3" system but stock axle-back muffler), I'm surrendering 30+ whp in exchange for a silent, sleeper exhaust tone. I'd love to find a free-flowing option that not only lacks drone, but also muffles WOT acceleration. Tough to beat the OEM muffler for that.

For the NSX, I'm debating whether to add meth or an intercooler, as I'm not totally comfortable running my 385 whp tune once the weather gets warm. Personally, I like the idea of an intercooler more, as it does not require any attention after install, but I'm turned off by the 3k cost people quote for them. About how much $$$ did your meth set-up run?

 

[v8killer]

Thats awesome! Its great to see the BBSC making big power.

 

[peiserg]

Impressive how much of a difference freeing up the exhaust on a FI system can make. I know on my 20g turbo Forester XT (3" system but stock axle-back muffler), I'm surrendering 30+ whp in exchange for a silent, sleeper exhaust tone. I'd love to find a free-flowing option that not only lacks drone, but also muffles WOT acceleration. Tough to beat the OEM muffler for that.

For the NSX, I'm debating whether to add meth or an intercooler, as I'm not totally comfortable running my 385 whp tune once the weather gets warm. Personally, I like the idea of an intercooler more, as it does not require any attention after install, but I'm turned off by the 3k cost people quote for them. About how much $$$ did your meth set-up run?

If someone can enlarge and rotate that dyno sheet... feel free. I'm unable to figure it out.

I got the top of the line Alky Control www.alkycontrol.com system. It was a little hard to tune, as there is no digital read out.. just 3 dials with no graduations. Tony Szirka, the tuner at UMS, was able to do it on the dyno pretty quickly tho. Ithink the cost was just over $1100 for the system, plus whatever install was. it has 3-d mapping, using boost, load, and temps for triggering mechanisms.

Biggest complaint now? Wheel spin all through 1st and halfway through 2nd! that and a brand new oil leak on passenger side.. I don't know if it's related to the stuff i just had done or not.. but this car has never leaked one single drop of engine oil until i got back from the latest visit. I'll put car up tonight and take a look..

 

[warren1205]

Ok kiddies..

Hope you've brought along a change in underwear.

I decided, after a ride in v8killer's SOS built monster, that I needed an upgrade to my exhaust. I've been running a 100% stock exhaust system since day 1 with my bbsc.

I contacted SOS, they were very helpful and professional. I told them my overriding concern was for drone. They pointed me to the Cantrell enduralite exhaust. Works great. quite a bit louder than i wanted at WOT, but at cruising speed, it is barely above stock! and no drone. wahoo!

I waffled a bit on the racing cats. I initially opted for them, then changed my mind before SOS installed them. I took the car to Basch's shop for a belt tightening, and before dropping it off, opted again for the racing cats. Mark was also very helpful, with both the belt tightening and cat install. AND I managed to get in and out of his shop in under a day, which may be a first for me!

I then took the car back to the same shop, UMS tuning (so named for the son of the owner.. Ullrich)

BAM. Same boost level (8.5). Same tank of 91 octane. Same dyno.

FORTY SEVEN more RWHP! Even Tony the tuner was amazed.

The car is NOT tuned for meth. the Meth is added as a safety net. Initially, on the old exhaust, the meth did richen up the system, but added zero rwhp/tq. NOW, with the racing cats/exhaust.. the meth bumped me from 408 rwhp to 426.. with NO timing or fuel added.

Hope the graph works.. you see two graphs there.. the lower one is "meth free" and the higher HP/tq is "meth-head"

Now all you guys who wouldn't shut your pie holes that 378 rwhp was "vagina" level tuning.... is this enough for you?

"shut my pie hole" I just spoke my opinion about your weak tune and you get all pissy. I'm glad you where able to pull more power with the same amount of boost. Maybe later in the future you can step up and push it a bit more :wink: