August Automob. Mag....NSX, LFA,GTR,EVO,C7!!

[liftcontrol]

Looks like the LF-A would be a V8, in accordance with the F1 engine configuration. It should help reduce the cost and the weight as well.

The Blue devil is very impressive on paper. If only it had build quality and reliability to match.

The EVO will continue to be the bang for the performance buck champ. Too boy racer for some of us.

The Ferrari Challenge is up in power to 520 according to the magazine as well.

The GT-R is staying put with the 450 hp TT 3.7li V6.

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

The next NSX needs to be a modification of the RL platform. It can have the Frame turned 180, primarily RWD, with SH-AWD, rear/mid engine layout, and have 2 seater approach. The Wheelbase would grow about 10 inches make the change over to the new platform, with a slight increase in track by 2-3 inches.

The 3.5 V6 should be the base engine, as the option engine should be a V8. Many have hinted at the possibility of taking the TSX/RSX 2.4 I4 and making it a V8 by sharing a common crank, putting displacement in the 4.4-4.8 liter range. HP could go easily upto 480hp with a redline of 8,000 rpm. It can also be produced to provide great low end torque for the Pilot/Ridgeline and even the RL or rumored LS competitor.

Looking at the competition, this seems to be the best answer. Problems:

1) The RL platform would require some re-engineering. Making the Rear axles steer (if spun 180) require more clearance then is available. The Mid Engline layout would require having Rear Transaxle layout.

2) This platfrom was only designed around the 3.5V6 and the V8 would not fit right in. Rumors of the Ford designed Yamaha V8 (used in the Volvo currently) would fit in a transverse fit, but its capacity and output don't match Honda's V8 range of use they are hoping for.

3) Weight. The current RL weighs in at 4000lbs. The ideal curb weight of the Next Gen V6 would be 3200lbs. 800lbs could be saved, but alot of aluminum would need to be used, along with smart reengineering.

4) Cost. The Porsche 911 would be the target. Its MSRP of a V6 version doing about 320hp is $72,000. Seeing as many options seem standard on an Acura besides Navigation, one could assume a base price for a well equipped NSX would be $78,000. Navigation would be a $2000 option.

5) Performance. The NSX V8 should also compete with the Porsche Turbo, with 480hp but do so not to beat it, but match its performance at a lower price with a better build. $100,000 should be the idea for the NSX V8.

6) Leave the possibility of an NSX-R model with very low build counts (ie 100 a year) that might have the indy based V10 or Twin Turbos on the V8 (the I4 already has a turbo in the RDX) that could do 600hp and match a Murcielago, F430 Challenge, and GT3 at the tag of $150,000... Something to bring the prestige to the NSX, but allowing the lower entry models.

I know Lotus was considering borrowing technology from the I4 tobuild their own V8, but chose to use BMWs 4.8 V8 in their new Esprit. They also looked at the RL platform as a donor to a possible Mid Engine layout, but used their own Fleixible Frame Foundation to make the Esprit.

Question is, I don't think Honda will put this much thought into it, because the current NSX is such a slow seller. They would need an instant success which they fear won't happend just based of previous NSX sales. But they only need to look at the RL to judge its success... and shortfalls (lack of a V8)

...

JMO

 

[liftcontrol]

What I cannot figure out is this.
What has kept Honda, an engineering powerhouse, from coming up with a V8?
They have seen Lexus for more than a decade build and sell their V8 LS and GS sedans. The same thing for Infiniti, albeit with less success initially, but much better sales in the past few years.

I know it is the power output and not the number of cylinders that matters, but Honda have fallen behind in HP figures as well.

It now appears that while building a V8 for the [hopefully] upcoming NSX replacement may be a better idea, in order to be able to use the engine in more than one car, the Honda president is insisting on a V10. If Honda is able to sell the V10 for the same price as Toyota is to sell their V8, Honda will likely have a winner. But if Honda goes further upmarket towards the Ferarri and Lamborghini price points, it may have another sales dud, no matter how good a car they produce. :frown:

 

[apapada]

Honda's next supercar will have a V10. Period. Honda is preparing the plant which will built the future V10. This engine won't be exclusive to the Supercar.

FYI, the "Blue Devil" Corvette is officially called "Super Sport".

 

[brahtw8]

The next NSX needs to be a modification of the RL platform.

The NSX should have its own platform, designed from the ground up with a singular purpose. It is the ultimate expression of Honda's engineering prowess in a street car. A re-engineered RL does not fit the bill.

It should also not have a base engine or a lower-priced model. It needs to unique, not watered down.

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

The NSX should have its own platform, designed from the ground up with a singular purpose. It is the ultimate expression of Honda's engineering prowess in a street car. A re-engineered RL does not fit the bill.

It should also not have a base engine or a lower-priced model. It needs to unique, not watered down.

The basis of the NSX motor today was built of the Legend motor to begin withv :smile:

It has to make sense, and be built smart in order for it to be a great car, and a great value. Something the NSX started to lack when ferrari went from the 348 to the 355. It was only a great value, didnt compete well anymore.

And the V10 hasn't been put into plan yet from what sources say. Unless the plant is going to build a modified version of this V10 to make a V8 thats affordable, since that is what will be used in other Honda/Acura products.

 

[brahtw8]

The basis of the NSX motor today was built of the Legend motor to begin withv :smile:

It has to make sense, and be built smart in order for it to be a great car, and a great value. Something the NSX started to lack when ferrari went from the 348 to the 355. It was only a great value, didnt compete well anymore.

And the V10 hasn't been put into plan yet from what sources say. Unless the plant is going to build a modified version of this V10 to make a V8 thats affordable, since that is what will be used in other Honda/Acura products.

Thanks for telling me something I already know. :smile:

The NSX competes just fine with the F355. It was the 360 and the F430 that went beyond.

You don't need to quote NSX history to me. I'm an informed afficionado, not a fanboy. I just don't want to see the NSX share a platform with the RL or any other existing Honda product. If they can get 500+ out of an engine based on the J35, I won't complain.

 

[TC]

Got my issue today - reported on lots of performance cars coming down the pike. Here are some of the highlights:

• 911 GT2 - 530+ HP, RWD, lightweight, 200 mph
• 911 GT3 RS - 415 HP, carbon fiber hood, adjustable rear wing, pic of the real thing.
• Corvette Z07 - 650 HP, more carbon fiber body panels, vented hood
• F430 CS - 520 HP (that's 120 HP per normally aspirated liter), pic of the real thing.
• Lexus LF-A - running hot laps at Fuji Speedway, V8, 500 HP, its a real runner, not just a show car.
• Audi R8 - V10, MR layout, production version to be unvieled at Paris auto show in the fall.
• BMW M3 - 400+ HP V8, 6 or 7 speed sequential tranny
• Nissan GT-R - 450 HP V6 TT
• Aston Rapide - 480 HP V12, 6-speed sequential tranny
• Porsche Panamera - pics of the real car, V8 and TT V8 from Cayanne, V10 from CGT.
• NSX - head up butt

 

[rickysals]

• Audi R8 - V10, MR layout, production version to be unvieled at Paris auto show in the fall.

Cannot wait for that car. Is sure to become my favorite car of all time if it looks as good as the concept.

 

[NetViper]

The Blue devil is very impressive on paper. If only it had build quality and reliability to match.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/chevrolet/corvette/2006/coupe

I can understand the lack of quality in the C5, but the C6 is NOT the same boat. The only problem I seem to read about with the vette is a dead battery issue. It is very reliable and quality does not seem to be an issue. Is it up to the same standards as a NSX? Probably not, but it is also nearly 1/2 the price.

EDIT: There is a roof issue as well.

 

[brahtw8]

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/chevrolet/corvette/2006/coupe

I can understand the lack of quality in the C5, but the C6 is NOT the same boat. The only problem I seem to read about with the vette is a dead battery issue. It is very reliable and quality does not seem to be an issue. Is it up to the same standards as a NSX? Probably not, but it is also nearly 1/2 the price.

The roof de-lamination problem is a pretty substantial issue, and even present on C6 Z06s.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1416763

 

[liftcontrol]

Got my issue today - reported on lots of performance cars coming down the pike. Here are some of the highlights:

• 911 GT2 - 530+ HP, RWD, lightweight, 200 mph
• 911 GT3 RS - 415 HP, carbon fiber hood, adjustable rear wing, pic of the real thing.
• Corvette Z07 - 650 HP, more carbon fiber body panels, vented hood
• F430 CS - 520 HP (that's 120 HP per normally aspirated liter), pic of the real thing.
• Lexus LF-A - running hot laps at Fuji Speedway, V8, 500 HP, its a real runner, not just a show car.
• Audi R8 - V10, MR layout, production version to be unvieled at Paris auto show in the fall.
• BMW M3 - 400+ HP V8, 6 or 7 speed sequential tranny
• Nissan GT-R - 450 HP V6 TT
• Aston Rapide - 480 HP V12, 6-speed sequential tranny
• Porsche Panamera - pics of the real car, V8 and TT V8 from Cayanne, V10 from CGT.
• NSX - head up butt

To add to TC's list:
Lexus IS V8 with approx. 400 horses to compete with the upcoming M3 V8

And another car I would be very interested in learning about in greater detail would be the next Toyota Supra.

Supposedly to be built on the Lexus IS platform with both a 3.5li V6 with 350hp (coupe and convertible...Nissan Z fighter) AND a 4.3/4.5or 5.0 li V8 with 400-450hp (hardtop only...Nissan GT-R fighter??). The Supra will not share the chassis with the LF-A. It would be a shared platform with the IS instead.

Good times are just around the corner.:biggrin:
And I hope that Honda will join the party:smile:

 

[H-carWizKid]

To add to TC's list:
And another car I would be very interested in learning about in greater detail would be the next Toyota Supra.

Supposedly to be built on the Lexus IS platform with both a 3.5li V6 with 350hp (coupe and convertible...Nissan Z fighter) AND a 4.3/4.5or 5.0 li V8 with 400-450hp (hardtop only...Nissan GT-R fighter??). The Supra will not share the chassis with the LF-A. It would be a shared platform with the IS instead.

Good times are just around the corner.:biggrin:
And I hope that Honda will join the party:smile:

I am VERY interested in the next 3.6 Supra coupe- I have seen a lot of renderings, and I have little doubt I will be in love.

Can't wait to see what becomes of all these concepts... Variety is good.

unfortunately I am not really liking the direction I see Honda going in. I will reserve my judgement until a release, but right now there is a lot of really interesting buzz coming from the other manufacturers in Japan.

I loved my Lexus. I would have no problem becoming a T-carWizKid if I prefer what I see.

 

[TC]

To add to TC's list:
Lexus IS V8 with approx. 400 horses to compete with the upcoming M3 V8

Good times are just around the corner.:biggrin:
And I hope that Honda will join the party:smile:

Yes, I was just thumbing thru the new issue of Automobile and was amazed at all of the new high-performance models on the near horizon. Then the blurb on the NSX was so antithetical. Whereas every other manufacturer is clear on what they are bringing to market, Honda is still thinking about what to do.

My prophecy - there will be no V10 NSX. Just like the HSC was committed for production in late 2003, only to be cancelled a couple of years later. Just like every other rumor or semi-official announcement of a new NSX has failed to pan out. In fact the only rumor to ever pan out was that the NSX was to be cancelled in 2005.

IMO, a V10 is a dumb idea. The V10 F1 era is over, so there is no tie-in there. Honda's F1 and Indycar engines are both V8's. A V8 can be used in Honda trucks and Acura sedans. A V10 will likely be a gas-guzzler, which would run contrary to Honda's green corporate values. As Ferrari has shown, a smallish displacement V8 can generate 500 HP. The lack of any business or technical rationale for a V10 will kill it - IMO.

 

[TC]

The roof de-lamination problem is a pretty substantial issue, and even present on C6 Z06s.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1416763

True, but the NSX had its own teething problems - snap ring, for instance. My wife's 05 RL has had 5 recalls in past 18 months - it was in the shop for 10 days in January with electrical problems. All cars have manufacturing and design defects.

 

[brahtw8]

True, but the NSX had its own teething problems - snap ring, for instance. My wife's 05 RL has had 5 recalls in past 18 months - it was in the shop for 10 days in January with electrical problems. All cars have manufacturing and design defects.

Of course. That is not the point. I was responding to NetViper's statement that a dead battery was the only problem he had read about with the C6. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you feel some need to validate the C6?

 

[NetViper]

Of course. That is not the point. I was responding to NetViper's statement that a dead battery was the only problem he had read about with the C6. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you feel some need to validate the C6?

I forgot about the roof. Yes, that is a big problem - however, not very many roofs have actually fallen off, but at least GM is solving the problem -- unlike Honda and the Snap Ring. And no, I feel no need to validate the c6. My point is the NSX was not perfect either. Personally, I would rather have a busted roof than a snap-ring failure. Lift Controls statement was not accurate, so I corrected it.

Just like you corrected me.

 

[brahtw8]

I forgot about the roof. Yes, that is a big problem - however, not very many roofs have actually fallen off, but at least GM is solving the problem -- unlike Honda and the Snap Ring. And no, I feel no need to validate the c6. My point is the NSX was not perfect either. Personally, I would rather have a busted roof than a snap-ring failure. Lift Controls statement was not accurate, so I corrected it.

Just like you corrected me.

My remark regarding validation was not meant to be anything other than a question to TC. You certainly have a right to comment on it, but I was not saying that your post was an attempt to validate the C6.

Everyone take a deep breath. :smile: It is nice to have so many choices in the sports car segment again.

 

[NetViper]

My remark regarding validation was not meant to be anything other than a question to TC. You certainly have a right to comment on it, but I was not saying that your post was an attempt to validate the C6.

Everyone take a deep breath. :smile: It is nice to have so many choices in the sports car segment again.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

Anyway, that is bad new regarding the next NSX.

From the sounds of the article, it sounds like to car Honda wants to make is already here. It is called the M6. I really doubt Honda would be able to make an M6 for that price either.

 

[Osiris_x11]

streetin'...

Anyone/anywho know anything about a Stradale version of the F430 Challenge?!?

I've seen a F430 Challenge around towne, at the time misinterpreted to be a Stradale (corrected on 'Prime... :tongue: ). I want a streetable version to be offered, so 360 F1 Stradale Challenge's will get flipped by whimsical owners, thus available for the masses! :biggrin:

 

[brahtw8]

From the sounds of the article, it sounds like to car Honda wants to make is already here. It is called the M6. I really doubt Honda would be able to make an M6 for that price either.

I hope they are wrong. I don't want another M6. The M6 is fantastic, but I want M6 power in car that weighs 3000 pounds, not 4000 pounds.

Maybe Honda will build something to emulate the McLaren F1's philosophy. Honda should have powered the F1 anyway. Perhaps they will get another chance through their own efforts. Oh well, I can dream.

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

Sorry, didn't mean to come of like that... just wanted to note that everyone's chances of seeing a reasonably priced NSX that performs like the next NSX should would require some sort of volume to scale action.

I think in general, the comment about the R8 from Audi is what I'm thinking, as well as many other auto makers.

If your gonna do a mid-engine, you have to be more competitive then Porsche. They have the volume. With the basis of the Lambo Gallardo, and V8, V10, & even possible V6 form make the R8 a strong case with the Quattro AWD bias to the rear. Especially when Audi is promising at 911C4 price point, the R8 will have 200hp more then the P-car...

That is the business model Acura will need to compete on this level. Otherwise it has an SL model to compete with, which still does great... just doesnt do the NSX justice.

And BTW, I was informed that the 997 Turbo will weigh in at 3500#s with 473hp... V10 NSX Category

 

[liftcontrol]

My prophecy - there will be no V10 NSX. Just like the HSC was committed for production in late 2003, only to be cancelled a couple of years later. Just like every other rumor or semi-official announcement of a new NSX has failed to pan out. In fact the only rumor to ever pan out was that the NSX was to be cancelled in 2005.

IMO, a V10 is a dumb idea. The V10 F1 era is over, so there is no tie-in there. Honda's F1 and Indycar engines are both V8's. A V8 can be used in Honda trucks and Acura sedans. A V10 will likely be a gas-guzzler, which would run contrary to Honda's green corporate values. As Ferrari has shown, a smallish displacement V8 can generate 500 HP. The lack of any business or technical rationale for a V10 will kill it - IMO.

I would have to agree.
When Honda decided to sit on their rear ends for close to 15 years afa the NSX is concerned, they doomed themselves to being in the unenviable position of playing the catch up game. It appears that they are having some significant trouble with determining a realistic target they can shoot for. The HSC was an effort that is clearly dead. The V10 was a we'll show them type of announcement but again the target has moved. Not only that, it appears that it was not well thought out to begin with.

This is most unHonda like and I feel that their problem here is the top Honda management itself. They seem to have big mouths and a big disconnect with what their engineers could do or tell them.

Perhaps Honda has taken a turn to becoming the green company that does only little, clean, high mpg, hybrid/electric, people haulers. There is nothing wrong with that. But that would be a shame, for Honda has a very successful tradition of motorsport.

I hope that is not the case. I hope that the next NSX, whether a V8 or any other powerplant, is in the works and that Honda will surprise the world yet again with their special magic.:smile:

 

[TC]

Do you feel some need to validate the C6?

I don't own one, if that is the question/suggestion.

More than a few NSX owners and/or enthuiasts seem to enjoy bashing other cars like the Vette - and when they can't bash the Vette on performance or engineering, the old fallback always is the "quality" argument. "The Vette has cheap plastic and vinyl ..." Last I checked, my NSX interior is all plastic and vinyl. Does the NSX have "nicer" vinyl? I guess to the same extend that Wendy's makes a better burger than McDonalds.

I appreciate great cars regardless if its a Honda, Ferrari or Chevy, or anything else.

BTW, I didn't mean to suggest that you were bashing the Vette.

 

[TC]

I hope that the next NSX, whether a V8 or any other powerplant, is in the works and that Honda will surprise the world yet again with their special magic.:smile:

I don't think that they need to surprise the world again - just improve what got them all of the praise and admiration in the first place. I don't understand all of this "searching" for a direction for the NSX - sports car, GT, mid-engine, front-engine, V10, V8, SH-AWD, hybrid, yadda, yadda... WTF.

To me its simple - a better NSX. Honda can make a V6 with 400+ HP. The 997 GT3 3.6 liter engine (NA) makes 415 HP and revs to 8400 RPM. Keep the car MR transverse layout so it has a trunk to retain its user-friendly capabilities. Make the overall car a bit larger. Better brakes. Price it at $85k and you have a winner. Optional sequential gearbox would be nice.

I don't get it. Honda is famous for relentless incremental improvement - just do that on the NSX. It should have been done for the past 15 years and Honda wouldn't be in the mess in the first place.