Audi R8 is a Jeep
- Thread starter Hong_NSX
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Nice, you don't see to many of those!
Interesting, the picture makes the audi look very heavy.
I had a chance to sit in this prototype last weekend. I didn't have my NSX with me, but by itself the car looked amazing. Funny to see how large it looks next to the NSX!!
Gated shifters are cool...
Gated shifters are cool...
I like, I like...
Hello Hong,
Thanks for the pictures !
And yes, the R8 does indeed look very big and heavy indeed.
Although it's made mostly of aluminum like the NSX, now when I see them side by side I can understand why the R8 weighs almost 1600 kg (3527 lbs).
Thanks for the pictures !
And yes, the R8 does indeed look very big and heavy indeed.
Although it's made mostly of aluminum like the NSX, now when I see them side by side I can understand why the R8 weighs almost 1600 kg (3527 lbs).
Yeah.. didn't I hear the price was gonna be over 200k ??
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In Europe it's EUR 104k without options. Audi is good at building BIG-HP-Pampers-bombers (S4, S6, S8) but the R8 will lack the image of a Lambo truely. Another supercar people didn't wait for.
I'm not bashing you, but I'm going to stand up for Audi on this one. I'm more concerned about the statement "too expensive for an Audi" though. Look at our Nsx prices. I think it's resonable for an Audi.
Stephen
For an Audi the R8 is expensive, but then again, the NSX was the most expensive Japanse car ever produced for a long time and certainly the most expensive Acura ever produced.
Also, the NSX was a exotic sportscar from a company which had never made anything like it before.
Just like the R8.
In fact, the R8 design philosophy looks very much like that of the original NSX
- Designed from a company's wish to capitalize on the company's racing successes.
- Built from aluminum
- Mid-engine design for optimum balance
- Double wishbone suspension for excellent handling
- Carries two people in great comfort for a sports car, yet, delivers high performance when asked to
- Using a high-revving natural aspirated engine for optimum throttle response with a high specific power output
- Thought to be too expensive for the particular brand name
Also, the NSX was a exotic sportscar from a company which had never made anything like it before.
Just like the R8.
In fact, the R8 design philosophy looks very much like that of the original NSX
- Designed from a company's wish to capitalize on the company's racing successes.
- Built from aluminum
- Mid-engine design for optimum balance
- Double wishbone suspension for excellent handling
- Carries two people in great comfort for a sports car, yet, delivers high performance when asked to
- Using a high-revving natural aspirated engine for optimum throttle response with a high specific power output
- Thought to be too expensive for the particular brand name
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The NSX has been viewed as being too expensive for a Honda. Good marketing sells these cars under a different label like Acura. In Europe it was sold as a Honda. Toyota sells their cars under the premium label Lexus, even Nissan did something similar. Audi is already a premium label and the conversion from the old Audi 80 (US audi 4000) was a big step forward. I drove these old cars 10 years ago. :wink: But the R8 is more of a baby-baby-Lambo than anything else. It's not a technological milestone, just another wannabe-supercar (sorry for this expression
). I'm interested in how this car sells in different countries. Narzistic people still buy something really exotic like Ferrari, Lambo oder Maserati.
People who don't like to be in the spotlight drive their Porsches or BMW's. I still don't see a reason why someone should buy an Audi R8 but maybe the market will convince me on this one. :wink:
As for the design, ok, this is personal preferrance: I hate to see the Audi 'single frame' in the front and the similarity of the rear to and Audi TT. That's really boring.
@MvM: Agree with you completely but there are 16 (!) years (regarding the speed at which the automobile developement flies I call them 'LIGHT' years) between the NSX and the R8. Zynic version: Did it Audi take 16 years to develop a car similar to the NSX? And I'm still not sure about the engine reliability because they had quite a few blow-ups while testing.
The NSX was absolutely outstanding for his time born and for sure for Honda. The R8 looks like a simple marketing gag to fill the inexistent space between the Pampers-bombers and Lambo. If the R8 had something like Hybrid-technology I would praise it and raise my hat but in this concept I only shake my head...
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@MvM: Agree with you completely but there are 16 (!) years (regarding the speed at which the automobile developement flies I call them 'LIGHT' years) between the NSX and the R8. Zynic version: Did it Audi take 16 years to develop a car similar to the NSX? And I'm still not sure about the engine reliability because they had quite a few blow-ups while testing.
The NSX was absolutely outstanding for his time born and for sure for Honda. The R8 looks like a simple marketing gag to fill the inexistent space between the Pampers-bombers and Lambo. If the R8 had something like Hybrid-technology I would praise it and raise my hat but in this concept I only shake my head...
I do not entirely agree with you on this.
True, there is some 16 years between the development of the R8 and the NSX. But if those 16 years would be LIGHT years then the R8 doesn't show that much 'new' technology at all.
Let me see, what does it have...
- The Audi spaceframe, with is the same basic aluminum spaceframe technique that they have been using for about ten years. So, nothing new
- A 'new' 4.2 liter V8 engine with, wow, 100 HP/liters. Nothing special there either. My trusty NSX makes more than that. In fact, the R8 engine is a slightly tweaked version than you will also find in the RS4.
- As far as I know, clutch & gearbox are from the Lambo.
- Brakes, nothing special there.
- Ok, Magnetic Ride Suspension. Smart idea but you can buy that on the Audi TT as well.
- Ok, have got it, the LED daylight running lights. Wow, yes, that's a real break through then
In fact, I think that if you take the average NSX with a good after market suspension, some basic weight reduction and a SOS 3.4 liter engine or with a CTSC with somewhere around 360 crank HP, it will give the R8 a hard time on any track.
wow. I had no idea it was so much larger. It did not feel it when I was in the model at the NAIAS.
And if I could sexually assault your car, I would. It is BEAUTIFUL.
And if I could sexually assault your car, I would. It is BEAUTIFUL.
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I do not entirely agree with you on this.
True, there is some 16 years between the development of the R8 and the NSX. But if those 16 years would be LIGHT years then the R8 doesn't show that much 'new' technology at all.
Let me see, what does it have...
- The Audi spaceframe, with is the same basic aluminum spaceframe technique that they have been using for about ten years. So, nothing new
- A 'new' 4.2 liter V8 engine with, wow, 100 HP/liters. Nothing special there either. My trusty NSX makes more than that. In fact, the R8 engine is a slightly tweaked version than you will also find in the RS4.
- As far as I know, clutch & gearbox are from the Lambo.
- Brakes, nothing special there.
- Ok, Magnetic Ride Suspension. Smart idea but you can buy that on the Audi TT as well.
- Ok, have got it, the LED daylight running lights. Wow, yes, that's a real break through then
In fact, I think that if you take the average NSX with a good after market suspension, some basic weight reduction and a SOS 3.4 liter engine or with a CTSC with somewhere around 360 crank HP, it will give the R8 a hard time on any track.
It's not that there is MUCH new technology in a new car but HOW MUCH WALL-BREAKING technology is in the car.
As you said:
- it's more than a minus having the same engine in another car, RS4 but that's only marketing and the perception of people of it. I recall Audi buyers being angry because they have been spoiled by the Turbo-kick and now 'only' get high revs but no boost.
- brakes: if you really want technological advanced brakes buy a porsche with carbon brakes
- Magnetic Ride Suspension: no new technology at all. Audi bought it from the shelf of a German supplier.
- LED technology has been developed years ago
The only thing Audi can be proud of is the Audi spaceframe.
Praising the NSX
:- The NSX was born in a time where the japanese bubble economy feared the rest of the world and ALL OTHER car producers shit in their pants when they saw the release of the NSX. And I'm pretty sure that the very first examples sold on the market found their way straight to the developement centers of all other car producers just to find out how Honda solved this or that problem the faced building their own cars.
Only a few merits of the NSX:
- Titanium connection rods: All other car producers said that this is simply impossible. Honda did it and you have a high reving engine without the need of rebuild after 100k km. Let us ask the Ferrari owners. :tongue:
- Stiff Alu chassis designed with the aid of the Cray computer. I don't recall any other modell at that time using the same or better.
- First production car with the capability to drive through corners with more than 1g (thanks to Yokohama)
- First independent 4-channel ABS
- VTEC (ok, used as a test in the Civic one year before
)- maybe political incorrect: Never seen gas milage on a similar car with the same output.
- Simply the drive as a Civic but could be driven very, very hard and fast. At that time it won every battle against a Ferrari on the track.
- First used water-based-painting with a finish lightyears away from any other car.
- Testdriven by no less than Ayrton Senna
I still forget listing every new tool they've invented, they've invented hundreds of patents with this car alone actually, but it's a very exotic feeling if you drive in a fast car with so much technological merits. :wink:
Catching up in development is done faster than going ahead. And the Japanese car producers have been very famous for copying and making it better before 1990. The NSX was a BIG step ahead at this time and the others were forced to catch up, esp. Ferrari.
I hate the German magazines for misinterpreting the facts of the NSX but I'm still sure that they've been shocked seriously according to the feeling in their pants. :tongue:
Regarding the NSX's life in this century I must say that it's a little bit dated as Honda didn't develop it much further. His best years are over technologically speaken and that's why I only want to see an HSC from Honda with the same technological step ahead like the NSX in 1990 was. You gonna hate me for this but one of the technologies would be Hybrid as noone else uses this in super sport cars.
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People said the same thing about the NSX. 'It is too expensive for a Honda'.
There was one of those in the group of manufacturers cars we were using to give VIPs rides around Mid-Ohio between the ALMS races. I was driving the Panoz Esperante GTLM... :biggrin:
My NSX has 3.2 liters and 290 HP. How is that more than 100 HP/liter??
Yeah, and if you put a Z06 motor in a Pontiac Solstice it would do alright with the R8 as well. Knocking the R8 by using apples to apples comparisons is one thing, but comparing the stock R8 to a heavily modded car and then acting like it's inferior because the heavily modified car won the comparison is silly.
The R8 has take-it-or-leave-it styling, but it kicked a$$ in the Car and Driver comparison against a 911 Turbo. That's some pretty serious company to be compared to. I realize Car and Driver may not be the greatest at comparisons, but whether it won the comparison or not, is not as important as the fact that is was a close match by anyone's measuring stick.
I applaud Audi for stepping out and taking a risk. Honda doesn't appear to have the intestinal fortitude to do that anymore. Lexus and Nissan appear to be the only Japanese companies that can build something that shows a passion for cars and driving. The GTR and the LF-A may suck as performance cars. Who knows? But at least Nissan and Toyota have said that 1. they were going to build the car. 2. told when it was coming out. 3. Shown the basic styling in concept form. 4. Followed through on what they said they were going to do. Audi did the same with the R8.
Acura lost their compass IMO when they ditched the great names of cars in their lineup and tried to go "European" with all the alphanumeric names. They still can't decide on what their identity is. They don't even have a 2 door car in their model line up, and we are knocking Audi and saying their cars are poor performers and lame?? They may not be world beaters, but recalling the glory days of 17 years ago for Honda is getting to be tiresome too.
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Yes, they said that but as the percentage of the technical knowlegded people is limited they didn't understand the NSX at all. Some of them understood the car but had to write what they were payed for, that's the main point. That's why I NEVER believe a car magazine. It was a marketing fault to sell it as an Honda in Europe with the existing car dealers, simple as that but you don't have to buy 'brands'...
I recall the Citroen DS 1955 which was a tech. advanced car too but a nightmare to repair.
Some might didn't take Honda's attempt serious but as the car has been released and even more showed after 16 years that it is absolutely reliable it is still a nightmare to many manufacturers. They will never admit that. :wink:
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Does anybody know this joke? It maybe not political correct in the US but it's a very good one in Europe.
Manager seminar: 30 participants from all world meet to a knowledge test. "The mode is very simple", explains the seminar leader, "I call a quotation and you tell me who said it where and when: Released from the ice river and brooks are "...; Icy silence until a Japanese says: "Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust, Osterspaziergang, 1806." All murmur appreciative, the seminar leader call the next quotation: "The moon is coming up, the golden star flax prangen... " As shot from the pistol the answer of the Japanese comes: "Matthias Claudius, evening song, 1782." The other participants see entered to soil, then the seminar leader goes for the second quotation: "Festgemauert in that ground connection... " - "Schiller!", the Japanese, "the poem of the bell, radiates 1799." In the first row one of the managers murmurs: "Fucking Japanese!" Again the voice of the Japanese announces: "Max Grundig, CEBIT, 1982!"
LOL!
Sorry, poor bablefish translation.
Background: All the authors have been very famous poets of the 18th century except for Max Grundig who had a big consumer electronic company in Germany. :tongue: CeBit is an electronic exhibition. The local Europe (german) electronic manufacturers shit in their pants as they saw what the Japanese were able to do in electronics. Many of them went out of business. At the time the NSX was brought to the market the automotive markets had the same feelings.
Manager seminar: 30 participants from all world meet to a knowledge test. "The mode is very simple", explains the seminar leader, "I call a quotation and you tell me who said it where and when: Released from the ice river and brooks are "...; Icy silence until a Japanese says: "Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust, Osterspaziergang, 1806." All murmur appreciative, the seminar leader call the next quotation: "The moon is coming up, the golden star flax prangen... " As shot from the pistol the answer of the Japanese comes: "Matthias Claudius, evening song, 1782." The other participants see entered to soil, then the seminar leader goes for the second quotation: "Festgemauert in that ground connection... " - "Schiller!", the Japanese, "the poem of the bell, radiates 1799." In the first row one of the managers murmurs: "Fucking Japanese!" Again the voice of the Japanese announces: "Max Grundig, CEBIT, 1982!"
LOL!
Sorry, poor bablefish translation.
Background: All the authors have been very famous poets of the 18th century except for Max Grundig who had a big consumer electronic company in Germany. :tongue:
CeBit is an electronic exhibition. The local Europe (german) electronic manufacturers shit in their pants as they saw what the Japanese were able to do in electronics. Many of them went out of business. At the time the NSX was brought to the market the automotive markets had the same feelings.
I think that NSX looks better than the R8. I hate that giant silver stripe they have down the side. it looks like a rolling door handle.
I've seen the R8 in person (as noted above - I've driven around the track in front of and behind one). I think it's beautiful. I think it's also a very impressive car. Those who are dissing it remind me of people who claim that a particular model (of the female variety) isn't all that appealing - but I bet none of you would kick her out of bed. :wink:
Based on having read all the buff magazines for many years, I think Car and Driver does the most thorough, most objective, most standardized, and most impressive comparisons in the business.
Anyone have them hosted elsewhere?Similar threads
