attn: video game artist/animators

EM1

New Member
Joined
7 February 2002
Messages
4
hello, im new to this forum and found this through honda-tech. i am 21 currently a student as a computer science major. i've always been into art, drawing, animation, always was one of the top in my classes during highschool. i just had a question for you video game artists/animators. i know you love your jobs. so how did you guys get in your position today(what was ur major, classes u took, what schools you've attended)?. i've been told too many times that i should utilize my talents, which i plan to pursue. i just need some information. i like programming, but i dont sit and code in my head in my spare time, but it keeps the mind sharp. im good at designing almost anything, i dont play video games all day but i do enjoy them. i was just interested in your job and i want to get more info on it. i can see my self loving a job like this, and i was wondering what video game artists salaries are like.
any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

p.s. sorry for the long post.

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"i dont want to be the best, i just want to beat the best"

[This message has been edited by EM1 (edited 07 February 2002).]
 
I know at least one member of this forum works at a gaming company, hopefully he can provide you with some inside info. Myself, I've never skinned professionally, but I did make something of a name for myself last year re-skinning the game Tribes 2.
http://www.planettribes.com/skinnersguild/majorstoner.shtml

I know one guy that got a job based upon a set consisting of three skins for T2, so you don't have to put together a big portfolio before you start sending out resumes. There are alot of people doing work on total conversions in hopes of starting a game company, and will offer you a share of the finished product when and if it is sold. You could also apply for a saleried position at an established company, top houses like id, with 17 employees, millions in royalties, and a profit sharing scheme, have employees/coders earning as much as $460K. But that is the peak of the gaming profession.
http://rustedfaith.com/

I suggest you look around some of the l33t skinning sites like skindom, and ask around there. Another good source of info would be game engine sites, since developers, and would-be developers, and ex-developers, are always looking for talent, or a meal. It is a "We eat our young" type of industry, and finding a good job with a stable future is not always easy to find. Many of the people that are working on the next generation of games now, where terminated only last year.
http://www.planetquake.com/skindom/
http://www.garagegames.com/

If you are interested in checking out my T2 skins, I have dozens of skins and skin packs at dopplegangers.com, check the T2 Download Sections: Uploads & New Files page, as well as the T2 Skins page. (I especially like my 420version2 and VoodooPIMP skins.)
http://www.dopplegangers.com/cgi-bin/sql/news_reader.pl?news
 
I think that I'm the member that Major Stoner is referring to. For the past five years, I have worked for Naughty Dog on such hit PlayStation games as Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back, Crash Bandicoot: Warped, CTR (Crash Team Racing) and on the recently released PS2 title Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy.

i just had a question for you video game artists/animators. i know you love your jobs.

I certainly love what I do, but not always the way I must go about doing it. In general, expect to trade your life to become a video game artist...especially a successful one.

so how did you guys get in your position today(what was ur major, classes u took, what schools you've attended)?

I am perhaps not the best example of how to become one as my breed is quickly becoming extinct.

Like many old-school game developers, I started in my youth as both an artist and a programmer, hacking out games on my own using whatever computer I had access to at the time. I was almost entirely self-taught (no art classes and only one very basic computer class...and already knew more than my instructor). In fact, I was still in middle school when I released my first games into the public domain, solo Freeware efforts that did gain some attention on PC-SIG despite being very simplistic (written in BASIC, featured CGA 4 color graphics). By high school, I switched from making games to making 2D CG movies using Take-1...telling stories and animating became more interesting than programming.

The week after graduating from high school, my mom got me in the door of Western Technologies, a very small engineering company that was about to start developing games for 16 bit systems (Genesis, SNES). I showed them many examples of what my hobby had produced...and they hired me right away. I worked with them during my summers throughout college and then joined Adrenalin Entertainment, their newly named games division, full-time when I graduated.

I studied film production at USC's famed School of Cinema-Television. Though I entered USC with special effects my primary interest, I quickly took to cinematography and editing. This being my first formal art training, I learned a lot about color, form, composition...things that would help ALL aspects of my craft.

Also during this time, I decided to pick up an academically priced version of 3D Studio and taught myself how to use it. I soon realized that 3D comptuer graphics were my future...I even volunteered images I created on my own for some projects at work. My effort helped convinced my bosses to use 3D art in our future games...and they set me up with a Alias PowerAnimator and a SGI workstation.

You can read more about me on my personal (long-overdue-for-an-update) website, AXIS ZETA

i've been told too many times that i should utilize my talents, which i plan to pursue.[/qoute]

No matter what you do, work will ALWAYS be work. You want to choose a career that you're not only good at, but one that you enjoy doing because you're going to spend most of your life doing it.

I still pursue many aspects of my art as a hobby...there's a huge difference doing something for someone and doing it for yourself.

i like programming, but i dont sit and code in my head in my spare time, but it keeps the mind sharp. im good at designing almost anything,

Okay, I'm a little confused. Do you want to be a game artist (creates backgrounds, textures, characters, animation, etc.), a game designer (defines the gameplay through placement of enemies, obstacles, level layout, etc.), a game programmer (codes game engines, object behaviors, renderers, etc.)

i dont play video games all day but i do enjoy them. i was just interested in your job and i want to get more info on it.

Liking video games helps, but is not necessary for all jobs in games. But it is strange when someone who doesn't play games wants to create them...I don't think a non-gamer can be a good game designer.

Video game artists also face technical complications and limitations that other artists don't have to deal with...an animator wanting to work for Pixar rather than for a game studio might not care to deal with such tedious things.

i was wondering what video game artists salaries are like.

Good luck finding this out. Video game salaries are among the best kept secrets. I have NO idea how mine compares to others at my company or within the industry...I just hope it is competitive. That said, I'm pretty sure that I've received some impressive bonuses over the years...after all, I did buy my NSX-T new.
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--akira3D
'00 Acura NSX-T (red/black), '97 Honda Civic HX (black), '01 Lexus IS300 (black/black)
"Reality is better than the dream..."

akira3d.com/nsx
 
Okay, I'm a little confused. Do you want to be a game artist (creates backgrounds, textures, characters, animation, etc.), a game designer (defines the gameplay through placement of enemies, obstacles, level layout, etc.), a game programmer (codes game engines, object behaviors, renderers, etc.)
QUOTE]

well, im really not too familiar with the specific jobs in this field, but i seem to me more into a game artist, as you described. im more into designing characters and things of that nature. my main thing will always be programming, but i wanted to get into this as well.
 
Okay, now it's my turn. My background is somewhat different than Akira's, so it might help in other ways. Like most typical artists, I dabbled and doodled in various media while growing up. Going into college, I felt compelled to please my parents by trying to be a programmer or engineer. Well, to put it mildy, I totally f*cked up my freshman year and completely screwed up my grades in all of my lower division classes. As such, I needed to change my major. Well, why not art, I thought to myself. My major concern wasn't to make a grip load of money out of school, just to get my degree, and then some sort of job after that.

Well, one thing led to another, I met a few people here and there, and next thing you know I was working as a low paid animator during a graveyard shift of a cheese ball cartoon production.

This job lead to another slightly higher paying art job, which lead to another slightly higher paying computer game job, which lead to another slightly higher paying video game artist job, which lead to another one,....etc. You get the picture.

Finally, a few years ago, the situation worked out that afforded me the opportunity to get the car I always wanted, an awesome house, and to provide for my family in ways I only imagined. (Not necessarily in that order.)

Essentially what I'm saying is that I didn't get into the industry to make money. My primary objective throughout was to work at a place where I could take pride in my work, pride in my product, and enjoy the people I work with. My feeling was if all that existed, everything else would work out. If I made a ton of money, great. If I didn't, at least I had a job that I enjoyed, one that I looked forward to going to everyday. I've listened to too many relatives and friends say that if work didn't piss you off, then it wasn't work. Screw that attitude!!!

I have a somewhat senior position in our company, and part of that is hiring new talent and evaluating current talent. Generally, what I look for in a "productive video game artist" is someone who first and foremost has the proper attitude. After that, I check at artistic talent. Then, after that, software knowledge and how it applies to our particular work environment. Essentially, my feeling is that software skills can always be learned/taught. Artistic talent and attitude can't.

I won't really get into salaries, since it varies considerably. Heck, at my own work, we have some artists that make almost three times the salary of other artists. That's not to say that they are three times as productive, or three times as valuable. I have a number of entry level (in their salary) artists that totally kick butt and that I'd love to staff an entire production team with guys like them. (BTW, there is a very limited number of cute girls in the industry. Don't get into it if you want to meet some. A good number of your coworkers, from artists to programmers alike, tend to be socially inept. It's the nature of the industry. Babes and video games don't mix. Errr....except at all the trade shows.)

Generally, keep practicing and perfecting your art skills, both traditional are computer. I know that sounds very basic, but if you've got a great attitude, you can wow them with your skills!!

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1995 NSX-T
1999 3.2TL
2001 Odyssey
1992 SC400
 
One thing to note, if money is what concerns you, get into the industry as a programmer, not an artist. Salaries tend to be higher. And then you can whine and b*tch that the artists never have to work late, or fix bugs, or this, or that, yadda, yadda, yadda.
 
Originally posted by FuryNSX:
One thing to note, if money is what concerns you, get into the industry as a programmer, not an artist. Salaries tend to be higher. And then you can whine and b*tch that the artists never have to work late, or fix bugs, or this, or that, yadda, yadda, yadda.

well... i am posting this in a nsx forum, not meaning that i dont care what i really do as long as i make money...but because i want to do what i enjoy, but obviously money is somewhat a key factor. i would like to be able to afford cars like the nsx, but at the same time i dont want to be a workaholic and not be able to enjoy my nsx, i dont wanna have an nsx just to drive but to really get into the tuning. i really am into programming, so im not just doing it for the money, nor to keep my parents happy( they wanted me to be a doctor or something in the medical field). i guess i just wanted to weigh my options because i am totally into my artwork whether it be traditional or computer. it will always be a hobby and maybe someday i can even use this as work.(enjoyable work)
 
i would like to be able to afford cars like the nsx, but at the same time i dont want to be a workaholic and not be able to enjoy my nsx

I am a workaholic, as are many of my coworkers. Certainly the core members of Naughty Dog are just as hard working as I am...the Crash Bandicoot series could not have been made with a team our size (I was employee number 9 or 10) had it not been for that fact. I'm sure that I would never have gotten a job with Naughty Dog had I not pursued my craft with such a level of passion and self-motivation (the insane amount of time I had poured into my personal website helped gain their attention).

So while I am not getting enough time to enjoy my NSX (last year I put less than 4,000 miles on her), I can't deny that it was that extra effort that helped make it possible for me to own one. And, from my experience, the better artists tend to be perfectionists...meaning that they'll work as hard as possible (late into the night, long into the weekend, etc.) to achieve a certain level of quality (Could this be the "attitude" that FuryNSX is talking about?).

i dont wanna have an nsx just to drive but to really get into the tuning.

Then you're going to need to make MORE money. Go-fast parts for the NSX are quite expensive (more than many cars).

I'm keeping mine stock.

i just wanted to weigh my options because i am totally into my artwork whether it be traditional or computer. it will always be a hobby and maybe someday i can even use this as work.(enjoyable work)

It's kind of ashame that you're only now getting into games. There used to be a time when having both a programming and art background was worth gold in the industry. I almost studied computer science myself (I still have my acceptance letter to UCLA's Computer Science department) before choosing to study film. But now every job seems to be requiring more specialized talent. FuryNSX, is this true where you are as well?

I've been very lucky at Naughty Dog because, despite all of this specialization, I remain in a position where I can *almost* use all of my talents (I say "almost" because I also compose music, but have used very little of my audio skills with the Dogs). For example, I'm currently writing Maya melScripts to improve our art production pipeline, but will soon return to modeling / animating boss characters and lighting the backgrounds...and throughout the development process I will interface with REAL programmers to find ways of improving the look of our game through code (renderers, effects, etc.). I obviously love the fact that I get to explore so many different aspects of my craft, but being a jack-of-all-trades tends to get me even MORE time-involved in our products.
 
Hi Eric! Any news on what your next title is going to be?
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Yeah... I know. It's probably a secret right?

If your current release is doing well enough my guess would be J&D2.

BTW- I still have not been able to play it and got fed up. I picked up Maximo when it was released and beat it in a few hours, then sold my import PS2. It's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be, at least compared to the Nintendo game that started the series.
I'll probably buy a US console one of these days.

It would be great if companies would start coming out with 2 editions. One version for the current breed and one for the old schoolers.
Like a Jak and Daxter: Controller through the TV Edition.
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As frustrating as it was, I miss the curse-inducing difficulty of older Nintendo and PC-Engine games. It started with the Sega Genesis. I bough the system and promptly went to Blockbuster and rented 7 games. I beat every one in the course of a week (and that included a few days for Phantasy Star). I was so dissapointed I returned the system and never owned one again.
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And, from my experience, the better artists tend to be perfectionists...meaning that they'll work as hard as possible (late into the night, long into the weekend, etc.) to achieve a certain level of quality (Could this be the "attitude" that FuryNSX is talking about?).

Yup, that's what I was talking about. But at the same time, I also look for someone who can step back every once and a while, and realize that we don't always get the chance to create art, and that first and foremost, we need to ship, and not everything can get finished to 100% artistic satisfaction.

But now every job seems to be requiring more specialized talent. FuryNSX, is this true where you are as well?
Yup, that seems to be the case, especially with our staff being much bigger than in the past. Before, when our development team was so much smaller (like 4 artists on a PS1 football team), we were sort of jack-of-all-trade type artists. I'd do some animation, some interace art, and some environment art. Now that's when you really got the creative juices flowin'!!!

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1995 NSX-T
1999 3.2TL
2001 Odyssey
1992 SC400

[This message has been edited by FuryNSX (edited 12 February 2002).]
 
Any news on what your next title is going to be?Yeah... I know. It's probably a secret right?

Yup...it's secret. We probably won't be saying what we're working on next for quite some time. But right now even I don't know what that will be (sales of Jak & Daxter thus far haven't lived up to my lofty expectations).

I picked up Maximo when it was released and beat it in a few hours, then sold my import PS2.

MAXIMO surprisingly tanked in Japan. I thought it looked cool, but haven't picked it up yet. Been too busy playing through Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance with Valerie.

As for selling your import PS2, it's about time you got an American PS2!

It would be great if companies would start coming out with 2 editions. One version for the current breed and one for the old schoolers.

You mean, one for TRULY hard core gamers like yourself? The hard core gamer is a tough sell these days...they expect WAY TOO MUCH because they've pretty much played everything over and over and over again. They aren't happy if something is too easy or too short...it's almost impossible to make a game with that level of difficulty or complexity as mainstream gamers get too easily frustrated. And due to the rise in production values, it's also getting harder to fill a game with deep and long lasting content. I don't see how any company can afford to release special editions to satisfy the needs of such niche markets.

I'm pretty hard core...but, since I don't have time to play games much these days, I actually look for games that take no more than several hours to complete. I like when I can make good progress after only an hour of play...if not, I may never finish the game (i.e. FFVII). On the other hand, I love the fact that I'm only 60% complete with GT3 after several months...and I still play it frequently (I have an i-Linked PS2 right at my desk, connected via a 6 port hub with one of my coworkers...hopefully more will link up soon).

We'll talk more about this at the next CalCoastal meeting (assuming you're going).

that first and foremost, we need to ship, and not everything can get finished to 100% artistic satisfaction.

I should tell you some amusing stories about how I've reacted to such statements in the past...
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[This message has been edited by akira3d (edited 12 February 2002).]
 
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