Article: Why Honda Is In Even More Trouble Than You Think [Deep Thoughts]

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Why Honda Is In Even More Trouble Than You Think [Deep Thoughts]
June 1, 2012 at 3:15pm by Dave Mable



To many observers, Honda appears to be going through the corporate equivalent of a mid-life crisis. Supply problems from the effects of the Japanese earthquake and tsunami and flooding in Thailand, along with less-than-complimentary write-ups on the new Civic by Car and Driver, Consumer Reports, and others, are bearing the brunt of the blame for the slump in calendar-year 2011 sales. Further issues: Acura’s inability to attain tier-one luxury-car consideration or status among consumers, Honda’s attempt to build a pickup truck, and the firm’s precipitous sales decline in its home market of Japan.

But even though it will raise the ire of Honda executives and brand loyalists alike, the company’s problems aren’t simply the aftereffects of the world’s climate gone mad or a substandard take on a bestselling vehicle.

It’s worse than that.

There is good reason to consider Honda to be in a similar place as General Motors was in, say, January of 1981. We need to preface this by saying the business and product environment of 31 years ago couldn’t be more different from the climate in which the Japanese company seems to be struggling today, but the parallels with what is happening to Honda now are all too familiar to students of The General’s decline.

In May of 2009, Jim Collins, an author who contributes to the Harvard Business Review and other business journals, published How the Mighty Fall. In the book, Collins describes the five stages of demise in the world of modern business. They are:

Stage 1: Hubris Born of Success

Stage 2: Undisciplined Pursuit of More

Stage 3: Denial of Risk and Peril

Stage 4: Grasping for Salvation

Stage 5: Capitulation to Irrelevance or Death


Looking back at General Motors from mid-1945 up to the fateful day in June of 2009 when it declared bankruptcy, the stages and their effects can easily be identified. It’s tougher with Honda, mainly because it’s going through the end of Stage 2, the shank of Stage 3, and the early part of Stage 4 all at the same time right now.

1) Hubris Born of Success

GM’s Stage 1 period saw the company release highly engineered but woefully underdeveloped products like the Vega’s liner-less aluminum-cylinder-block/iron-head engine and front-drive X-cars, the doomed-from-the-start development of the RC2-206 rotary engine, and the cylinder-deactivating Cadillac V-8-6-4. In the case of our subject Japanese automaker, Stage 1 was highlighted in 1973 by the company displaying a Chevrolet small-block V-8 with a revised induction system and CVCC heads to show that Honda’s combustion technology obviated the need for a catalytic converter to meet the stringent 1975 emissions regulations. Honda, an engine builder par excellence, developed a mechanical solution to a chemical problem: controlling exhaust emissions from an engine running on unleaded fuel. This was akin to developing a machine to cure a headache so you don’t have to take an aspirin. And then Honda stuck with CVCC long after the system’s sell-by date before moving to catalysts like everybody else.

In the 1987–1988 timeframe, Honda had its dealers and buyers all but begging for a six-cylinder engine in the Accord, but refused to accommodate the requests. The company’s argument was that a V-6 was unnecessary since the company could make an inline-four with as much power as a contemporary six. And while that last part was true, the company believed it was smarter than the market. This is a treacherous train of thought for any business. At the most elemental level, no company is smarter than its customers. It is the customer who knows what he will spend his money on, and American businesses spend billions annually to determine what motivates the consumer and what it takes to get him/her to shell out their dead presidents. (Fast forward to today, when many automakers are abandoning V-6s in their family sedans in favor of four-cylinder-only lineups, often using turbos to deliver six-cylinder power. The next Accord will offer a V-6.)



2) The Undisciplined Pursuit of More

During Stage 2, General Motors demonstrated conclusively that it was, in fact, impossible to turn an Oldsmobile gasoline-fueled V-8 into a viable diesel engine. Another example of the company’s total lack of discipline was the “Transatlantic-assembled” Cadillac Allanté, whose Pininfarina-built bodies were flown to Detroit from Italy to be mated with the chassis. When Honda was in the core of its Stage-2 thinking, the company pursued a partnership with BL Limited (later The Rover Group) to prop up the British manufacturer’s failing passenger-car business using Honda platforms. (Remember Sterlings?) Understanding the precarious position of its U.K. partner, Honda saw the arrangement as a way to potentially quick-start European production. It didn’t work out for Honda when BMW flew in and picked up Rover before the Japanese could act, and the company had to develop its European manufacturing base the old-fashioned way.

In the United States, the company experienced the ultimate excess of success when a couple dozen of its managers, some dealers, and some vendors were indicted in a bribery scandal involving preferential distribution of its hottest cars to retailers. The event shook the company’s North American operation to its foundation. Also during this stage, Honda acquired 100 percent of British American Racing to create its own Formula 1 program. We all know how well that turned out.



3) Denial of Risk and Peril


Stage 3 was the toughest for General Motors to come to grips with, and that appears to be the case for Honda. Going back to January 1981, GM was at the top of its game. The company had launched the then-radical X-car platform (Chevrolet Citation, Buick Skylark, et al.) at all four volume divisions and sales were astronomical. The J-car (Chevrolet Cavalier, Cadillac Cimarron, Pontiac Sunbird, et al.) was in the pipeline for launch in April, and the company’s downsized large and mid-size cars were selling well. However, all of these cars were more cheaply made, had worse assembly quality, and, in some cases, were styling failures compared to the vehicles they replaced. They sold only on the strength of the nameplates attached to them, and it was inertial marketing at its best. But GM management didn’t see it that way. After all, sales were up and only coastal loons bought crappy Datsuns, Toyotas, and Hondas.

Discuss the shortfalls of some newer Honda products with that company’s management types and they’ll talk about how well the models are selling or how well they would be selling if only they could make enough of them. Historically, Honda was one of those automakers where generation-to-generation product improvement was both blatant and a given. Recently, that hasn’t been the case.



Grok the Crosstour. It’s not ugly. Really! Honda said so on its Facebook page. Facebook proclamations or not, there are some in the automotive design community that refer to the misshapen five-door as the “Medusian Ambassador.” Honda’s stubborn insistence on keeping the course for this vehicle can be seen in the latest Crosstour “concept,” which previews a second-gen production model that looks basically the same as the current one.

Other than the excellent Fit, recent succeeding versions of existing Honda models have tended to be fussier, cheaper, and generally less interesting than the cars they superseded. Nowhere is this better illustrated than with the Civic. Park a new one next to the last version and do a walk-around. Pretty much every aspect of the 2012 Civic is cheaper than its predecessor. Inside, the story is the same with materials cheapened and fits worse. If Honda “pulled a Jetta” with the Civic, it could be excused. While the current Jetta doesn’t compare well with its immediate predecessor, at least VW dropped the base sticker. With the new Civic’s MSRP, it’s as though Honda was saying, “If you’re stupid enough to pay this, we’ll take the money and run.” Harsh words, and we haven’t even gotten to Stage 4. (At least Honda has admitted some errors with the Civic, and is said to be rushing improvements into production. Whether this will substantively improve the car is yet to be seen.)



4) Grasping for Salvation

At this point in the process, General Motors made weird acquisitions in the belief that they would make the company more profitable. As it turned out, a lot of capital was spent on a myriad of companies, none of them essential to GM’s core business: Hughes Electronics, EDS, Saab. The list goes on.

Other than the Formula 1 team, Honda hasn’t gone on a drunken buying spree, but it has made investments as mind-bogglingly irrelevant as the General’s purchasing pandemonium. Do any of you really believe anthropomorphic robots are part and parcel of Honda’s future viability? And the less said about the HondaJet, the better. If you believe that ASIMO and the HA-420 are vital to the future of Honda Motor Company, you should think again. They are both just more noise in the system that further distracts Honda from its significant problems at hand.



This is the stage when things get really messy and the downturn in core business steepens. When a new venture (the design and manufacture of air-interceptor missiles, development of a nascent human-style robot, or whatever) doesn’t provide the expected corporate uplift, the best minds are transferred from their actual fields of expertise to the new, high-profile operations. This further weakens a company’s core business and makes recovery even more difficult. Over the past decade, this has manifested itself at Honda within the planning department. Populated with individuals who have little real understanding of, sensitivity to, or connection with product, the department concocts customer abstracts so interchangeable business drones can comprehend the intent of a new vehicle. In the case of the first-generation RDX, this abstract was “Jason,” a young, upwardly mobile, urban-residing male that needed a turbocharged engine, “Super Handling All-Wheel Drive,” and room to transport all his lifestyle accouterments. Yeah, okay. As it turned out, there weren’t many “Jasons” buying the RDX. Planning got that part wrong—really wrong. The idea that product knowledge, sensitivity, and a comprehension of the new-vehicle market can be abstracted into the form of bullet-pointed nonexistent customers is, frankly, insane. The methodology is doubly destructive as it rewards the ability to devise synthetic buyers while purging real car or truck knowledge and insight from the planning function. The damage from this kind of product generation continues up through the organization by allowing management, with no more awareness of the market than a grapefruit, to make billion-dollar product decisions with minimal deleterious career consequences. At GM, this kind of planning gave us the 1997 Chevrolet Malibu. At Honda, it explains many of the new Civic’s shortcomings.

5) Capitulation to Irrelevance or Death

While General Motors never was able to pull out of its economic tailspin, Honda doesn’t have to experience Stage 5. In How the Mighty Fall, author Collins writes, “Decline can be avoided. Decline can be detected. Decline can be reversed.” But the company has to understand—no, believe—that its viability is on the line, and what might seem to be a minor issue could turn out to be a make-or-break turning point for its continued operation.

Honda’s problems ultimately aren’t engineering problems. They aren’t manufacturing problems or product problems, either. Those are just manifestations of the real issue. Honda’s problems are management problems. The past two decades have seen Honda devolve into an American car company headquartered in Minato, Tokyo, Japan. Drunk on North American profits, the company has performed horribly in the troubled Japanese domestic market, it has been unable to get any significant traction in Europe, and is a non-player in much of South America.

Let there be no doubt, Honda still is a viable business. But every new product that doesn’t match up to its predecessor siphons off a bit of the company’s strength. Each wrong move places the firm one step farther down the same path walked by GM from January 1981 until June 2009.
 
Grok the Crosstour. It’s not ugly. Really! Honda said so on its Facebook page. Facebook proclamations or not, there are some in the automotive design community that refer to the misshapen five-door as the “Medusian Ambassador.”

It's not ugly. :)

I get compliments on the thing all the time. Plus it has been bulletproof in the 2 years and 40,000 miles I've put on it.
 
From this blog:

"Honda’s problems ultimately aren’t engineering problems. They aren’t manufacturing problems or product problems, either. Those are just manifestations of the real issue. Honda’s problems are management problems. The past two decades have seen Honda devolve into an American car company headquartered in Minato, Tokyo, Japan. Drunk on North American profits, the company has performed horribly in the troubled Japanese domestic market, it has been unable to get any significant traction in Europe, and is a non-player in much of South America.

Let there be no doubt, Honda still is a viable business. But every new product that doesn’t match up to its predecessor siphons off a bit of the company’s strength. Each wrong move places the firm one step farther down the same path walked by GM from January 1981 until June 2009."


This is how you get people to read your blog/story/article.

Unlike GM, Honda actually sell product with desirable great reliability and technology without much of financial promotion other than special interest rate. They don't offer rebates, and they don't give massive discounts until end of the year. In many ways, they're out gunned by Korean makers due to exchange rate differences.

No one brought this out yet but the US/European standards, Honda is not allow to make cars of the 80/90's - Light, nimble, save gas, and most importantly, fun. Even the civic is over 3000 lbs just to meet the basic requirements.

What they need to do is go back to the basics, create fun cars people want without the excess price tags that will leave you with no excess cash after making the monthly payments. Keep the model cycle fresh instead of 8/10 years like the Integra and S2000, and most importantly, just offer the public 100K power train warrantee like they do in Europe and lower the cost of bumper to bumper extended warrantee.

If Honda is in trouble, so is Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Subaru.

Hyundai will meet the same problem sooner than you think because Korea cannot hold cheap exchange rate too long. There is a good reason why most of the Honda sold in the US is made in the US, and most of the Hyundai sold in the US is made somewhere else.
 
Hyundai will meet the same problem sooner than you think because Korea cannot hold cheap exchange rate too long. There is a good reason why most of the Honda sold in the US is made in the US, and most of the Hyundai sold in the US is made somewhere else.

Most Hyundais sold in the US are also built in the US.

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/new-thinking/built-in-usa.aspx

They're also expanding output and adding shifts, so this figure will continue to increase. Honda doesn't make anything at the moment that interests me. If I was an average consumer looking for an appliance that takes me from point A to point B, I'd probably look at Hyundai over Honda because they offer a better value.
 
BD;1583216 [B said:
No one brought this out yet but the US/European standards, Honda is not allow to make cars of the 80/90's - Light, nimble, save gas, and most importantly, fun. Even the civic is over 3000 lbs just to meet the basic requirements.

What they need to do is go back to the basics, create fun cars people want without the excess price tags that will leave you with no excess cash after making the monthly payments. Keep the model cycle fresh instead of 8/10 years like the Integra and S2000, and most importantly, just offer the public 100K power train warrantee like they do in Europe and lower the cost of bumper to bumper extended warrantee.

Uh no.

How about a CR-z with a K20/24 that would be light, nimble, quick, get good mpg's. I think they can make cars very similar to cars from the 90's.

They already have all these parts. It's been proven that it can be done. It's like the article said. Problems with the management crew. Out of touch with customers and their money.
 
I remember making the remark the Best Buy is following the footsteps of Circuit City and The Good Guys, people said I was crazy, and today's reports proved me right.

I have been in the retail biz for 25 years, including Honda.

Look at these cars:

CRZ vs. CRX

FIt vs 89 Civic Hatch back

K20 Integra vs B18 Integra

K24 civic vs. B16 Civic Si.

They all have something in common, these cars all increased in weight without much performance gain, the bigger engine is to accommodate weight increase with little or no improvement with the fuel economy. Like the GTR, they add additional technologies to off set weight gains.

You can see why things aren't working the way they should.

Toyota is selling cars by adapting Domestic promotional method (rebates, discount, fleet sale to rental car agencies, plus special financing with behind the door of massive dealer incentives) while offering boring cars, just like GM and Chrysler. The only differences is Toyota has a lower cost without union labor; therefore, was able to expend and turn profits. Honda started to make Toyota like cars while not following the same strategy as Toyota. That is really an easy fix by bite the bullet and focus on volume over high profit per car.

Look at the product line up from Mitsubishi, Subaru, etc? Their presence in the US are not that much different from Honda during the early 1980's, with out a few cars in their line up BUT without the volume.

If you look at the biggest market for cars, which is S. Cal, Norm Reeves Honda in Cerritos has been consistently selling 1200 cars a month, while Longo Toyota sells about 2000 cars a month. Their number took a little dip during the recession but stays relatives steady, and similar story can be said with other large dealerships. What they are NOT doing is increase their sales figures while Hyundai/Kia is mopping up the rest.

You can only offer value so much before things catch up to you. Winners ofter stays winning by offering fresh and exciting product, and most Primers will agree that Honda failed to do that in recent years.

Even if they offer a big V8 sedan/Trucks with rear wheel drive platform, they wouldn't gain much because Honda doesn't follow the standard biz practice.

And this is a note to Honda: It doesn't hurt to offer the RDX K23 turbo on the Civic Si. or bring back more Type R models to make people go to the showroom. Give it a SC or Turbo options so the number matches the European makers and drop that stupid SHAWD slogan. The word "Super" is popular in Japan but very corny in English speaking countries.

Have some faith in this current CEO, I think he is up to something.
 
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Introduce a rear-wheel drive Prelude II (without hybrid crap) that would compete against the Toyburu twins.

But they won't.

-J
 
Introduce a rear-wheel drive Prelude II (without hybrid crap) that would compete against the Toyburu twins.

But they won't.

-J

That will make my day. Other than NSX, I preferred Prelude over all other Honda models as personal daily driver. Gosh, I miss that car.
 
Two words: Honda sucks.

If I was looking for a new DD today, Honda and Acura would be the last showrooms to visit. I'd buy a new Hyundai Genesis before an Accord or TL/RL. If I'm looking to spend $30-40k on a car it's going to be a 3-4yr old Benz or BMW which are both superior cars than all aforementioned brands.
 
If I'm looking to spend $30-40k on a car it's going to be a 3-4yr old Benz or BMW which are both superior cars than all aforementioned brands.

However also be careful this is when all the electrical gremlins coming out for these cars which can be costly to fix...
 
Too many "YES" men. My dates may be a little off but this is a true story to illustrate this point. One of my moonlighting jobs during my anesthesia residency at U of Michigan from 1989-1992, was doing mobile physical exams (EKG and blood draws too) for large life insurance policies. One such exam was on a Ford executive VP who was head of the entire paint and finish division. In his office, deep within the Dearborn complex, I completed my usual routine exam and we began chatting cars. Our conversation lasted much longer than the 45 minutes I had spent completing the exam and it was obvious to him that we both shared the same interests and taste in cars. "Doc, let me show you something you're going to like" and soon he was driving me in his golf cart to another building in the complex.

Deep within this building was a brand new Lincoln MK 8, set to be released as the next model year replacement of the outgoing MK 7 (I can't remember if this was in 1990 or 1991. I had not seen it before in magazines and after walking around the car for a few minutes, I told him how awesome everything was EXCEPT the finish on the car. I knew full well this was his division that I was criticizing but I wasn't trying to be a contrarian. The entire lower half of the car had a rough krinkley surface. He explained that there was a layer of undercoating under the paint for improved winter durability. I told him I already knew what was under the paint, and appreciated the goal of this extra step but that this was "overdoing it". It took away from the overall beauty of the car and added a feature that would not be appreciated nor required by the potential customer. He looked a bit stunned with my comments, as if nobody had ever challenged the concept so I backed off and changed the subject.

Two years would pass by before I saw the Lincoln MK 8 again. This time it was in Las Vegas where I was practicing after completing residency. I was at the Lincoln dealership with my wife admiring the "all new" MK 8. I told her that I had seen this very same car nearly two years earlier. The salesperson who was helping us (he was also the manager) said that was impossible because the car had just come out. I told him about the story in Dearborn and he looked surprised. He said that the platform was originally set to be released a year earlier but was delayed for "paint and finish" issues! I don't know for sure if these were the same paint and finish issues I had brought up, but I like to think that my honest opinion mattered in this case.

Personally, I think Acura is in the same funk it experienced in the mid-late1990s (recall CLs and RLs) when Acuras were really just fancier (and boring) Hondas. Rather, Honda needs to work more on improving Acura's premium status with more performance and excitement. Psychologically, Hondas should be cheaper Acuras with all the trickle down benefits of a premium car company. I don't know if Honda has the same "Yes Men" problem that I experienced in Dearborn, but there is something missing. There are too many talented and capable people (ie Gary Robinson, Marketing NA Honda) within Honda for this to be happening. Less focus group people and more big picture people would be a start because Honda already has "all the little things" down already.

Regards,

Danny
 
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What I find very interesting is that the 3rd gen Acura TL was Honda's best selling Acura. When the 4th gen came out, sales plummeted. The 4th gen was better than the 3rd gen in every way except 1: visual appeal.

All I have read on this site is about how bulletproof all the latest offering are from Honda. And even though car reviewers have knocked Honda for a lot of things, the cars are still considered bulletproof, so it's obvious their engineering is still there.

To me, honestly, the only things that are lacking is a good exterior design team and sporty offerings. Regardless if the car has a double wishbone suspension or a powerful V6, the general public does not want to drive around in a crappy looking car. For people who know and are looking for something sporty, I guess Honda is making up for it in the new NSX. But I sort of see that as an unfinished plan. Many people could not afford the original NSX, but Integras, Preludes and eventually S2000s were available. There is nothing like that now.

If Honda could bring back some true sport to its lineup, and have great styling, they can easily get back in the game. I really don't think they are that far off.
 
However also be careful this is when all the electrical gremlins coming out for these cars which can be costly to fix...

Whenever I buy a used car it has to have a remainder of the factory warranty or be a CPO car. My wife and I each own 5+ yr old Benz's and neither has had one problem.
 
That will make my day. Other than NSX, I preferred Prelude over all other Honda models as personal daily driver. Gosh, I miss that car.

+1. My first honda was a 5th Gen Prelude. I Actually looked into trying to make a lude rwd.. would have been fun!

On topic though, that management needs to shape up, and quick! All the cars I want/like from Honda are discontinued. It's a real shame...
 
Maybe I'm weird, but this is my take on Hondas lineup.
There's not another car maker in existence with this percentage of decent cars(outside of Ferrari/BMW/Lambo).

Accord - Nice
Civic - Nice
Crosstour - ???
CR-V - Nice
CR-Z - Nice
FCX - ???
Fit - Nice
Insight - ???
Odyssey - Nice
Pilot - Nice
Ridgeline - ???
 
If Honda is in trouble, so is Toyota, Mitsubishi, and Subaru.

I agree with this. Only I would add all car makers.
What car maker makes more than 1 cool car?
Most don't make any.

Toyota makes nothing but lame cars(the new Subaru/Scion excluded).

Subarus, how many do you see with 200,000 miles? NONE.

Mitsubishi.. Pure junk cars.

GM is fail in ever sense of the word.

Nissan makes 2 cools car. Only 1 cool one that's reliable one.

Hyundai just steals from every to make their throw away cars look somewhat cool.

VW is rated as the least reliable car made. Junk.

Mazda makes 1 cool car.
 
I agree with this. Only I would add all car makers.
What car maker makes more than 1 cool car?
Most don't make any.

Toyota makes nothing but lame cars(the new Subaru/Scion excluded).

Subarus, how many do you see with 200,000 miles? NONE.

Mitsubishi.. Pure junk cars.

GM is fail in ever sense of the word.

Nissan makes 2 cools car. Only 1 cool one that's reliable one.

Hyundai just steals from every to make their throw away cars look somewhat cool.

VW is rated as the least reliable car made. Junk.

Mazda makes 1 cool car.


MX-5/Miata?
 
Question: can someone help me understand the direct value of an F1 program? I understand other racing programs but I would like to understand more about the value of F1 to a company like Honda.
The value of F1 is somewhat overrated today. BMW is able to sell cars without F1, Ferrari will definitely sell cars if they decide to withdraw, Lamborghini never really raced in F1 other than few years during the 1990's and they accomplished nothing. Porsche was a contract engine builder under the TAG label and was able to win championship but didn't stay when that contract ran out and knowing they couldn't compete with Honda, and their production cars are more desirable than ever. Soichiro Honda entered F1 before they built cars in the 60's as a engineering exercise and they learn a lot before entering the car market. They did it even better as engine supplier during the 1980's by pouring something like $100 million a year when they literally have no more than 5 cars in their entire U.S line up. I was sad to see them leave F1 while Brawn and MB is enjoying the fruits of their labor.

As for Honda vs. Toyota. If you look at the line up:

Accord vs Camery
Civic vs Corolla
TL vs ES350/G350
TSX vs IS350

Other than IS350, I'll take TL, Civic, and Accord over their counterparts. The only problem I have now is the price point, considering the fact that the new Civic Si is now 25 grand and I can't figure out why.

Etc, they really aren't that much different. Other than IS is RWD, they have similar performance, similar power output, and built almost the same way.

As for Hyundai built in the US, I didn't know the current line up are mostly built here, instead of the previous line up. The question I have is do they also export cars back to Korea like Honda does?

Regardless, all companies rise and fall, at least Honda possess quality control few can match, that is why I think this new CEO will sizzle up the line up by offering more exciting models in the near future. As you may know, Honda often brag about their "greenness" and greenness is has yet been proven to be popular.

They refuse to have V8 in their line up was one of the biggest downfall during the 1990's when they had the opportunity but they dropped the ball, let's see if this hybrid approach will help. I personally don't think it matter much but the new RLX and NSX will show us if they can carve back the market share. I personally have faith in that company. Once the global recession is over, I think they will be fine.
 
As for Honda vs. Toyota. If you look at the line up:

Accord vs Camery
Civic vs Corolla
TL vs ES350/G350
TSX vs IS350

Other than IS350, I'll take TL, Civic, and Accord over their counterparts. The only problem I have now is the price point, considering the fact that the new Civic Si is now 25 grand and I can't figure out why.

The problem is the rest of the country buys the Toyota in each of those segments, and by a significant amount.
 
BD you are seriously biased if you think the TSX can even be mentioned in the same sentence as the IS. The IS have 3 ranges, the closest thing the TSX compares to is the lowest IS250. The IS250 can be purchased with AWD though, and its much more expensive to boot. When you start stepping up to the IS350 or the ISF, the IS platform straight curb stomps the TSX and even the TL line.
 
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