AP-X NSX turbo system (angus turbo kit)

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I have a question. Do you have a turbo timer on the kit or do you have to leave the car running for a while before you turn it off?

This is actually a good question -

I do not use turbo timers, I find that running the car normally for a few minutes before shutdown, like driving up your front st. or back alley, or around a paking lot is more than sufficient. If you find you are the type who likes to go WOT into full boost for an extended period right before parking, or maybe you live at the top of a mountain then maybe you could consider one.

 

[goa360]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I really am glad to have Wil's kit on my car. I was at nsxstock this weekend and the car drove and started like a facory car. We drove probably around 6 hours stopping and starting the cars, and my car was phenominal. No smoke when driving and a very high end kit. Definately met my standards. If I had to do it all over again I would definately buy this kit again. Wil, is a stand up guy and a very good person. Even when you are not spending money with him he will call or text you to see how you are doing even with his busy schedule.
I had my friend install this kit in my garage on jack stands. This kit went on so smooth. The only thing I am doing now and Wil said he addressed this with the new kits is to shorten the dump tube, Definately do your home work on the tuner, I had 5 guys lined up, and when it came to picking a tuner and chose non of them, they spoke a good game but they all had a problem tuning an FIC and wanted me to do a standalone. I finally find the right tuner that tuned the FIC Ralphy from DRT tuning in Yonkers NY. Give him a call he is on AEM's board. He will set you up with the right tuner. All I have to say and I have said many times Wil's kit and customer service is superior. Thanks, Wil for producing this kit. Frank

Thanks Frank for great input. I started working on tuners. I was under impression that standalone is safer/cleaner way compared to FIC. Did I get that wrong or just a matter of preference?

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Thanks Frank for great input. I started working on tuners. I was under impression that standalone is safer/cleaner way compared to FIC. Did I get that wrong or just a matter or preference?

For 99% of the people running this kit, the FIC is the way to go. The standalone will be totally overkill and requires a lot more tuning compared to the FIC, the FIC also uses the stock maps for things like cold start and slow driving / cruising so you can be sure it will drive like stock , why pay for the EMS only to not use 90% of it's features?

 

[NetViper]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Angus,

Do you have to delete the cats to run this? I removed my cats once and I didn't like the nasty smell. Is it like that on a turbo or does the turbo remove that issue? Can it run high-flow cats?

 

[chudson1549]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

For 99% of the people running this kit, the FIC is the way to go. The standalone will be totally overkill and requires a lot more tuning compared to the FIC, the FIC also uses the stock maps for things like cold start and slow driving / cruising so you can be sure it will drive like stock , why pay for the EMS only to not use 90% of it's features?

Even for OBD I cars? It was my understanding they would be harder to tune. I have a 92.

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Angus,

Do you have to delete the cats to run this? I removed my cats once and I didn't like the nasty smell. Is it like that on a turbo or does the turbo remove that issue? Can it run high-flow cats?

This will delete the cats, you can run cats downstream of the turbo , I am doing this as we speak for a customer.

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Even for OBD I cars? It was my understanding they would be harder to tune. I have a 92.

While the FIC was designed for OBDII - it has since been widely used for OBDI with great results, very easy to tune , the only real advantage to OBDII is you can view the fuel trims and timing on a scanner

- on OBDI you have to know what you are doing a little more, but still very easy.

 

[NetViper]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

This will delete the cats, you can run cats downstream of the turbo , I am doing this as we speak for a customer.

Would this result in a loss of HP and TQ?

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I don't see losing much if you were to use appropriately sized cats.

 

[Tai]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I don't see losing much if you were to use appropriately sized cats.

What kind of cats would you recommend, and where would you put them? Also, would they burn up easily and change the sound somewhat? Would they roll off the high pitch sound?

- Tai

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

What kind of cats would you recommend, and where would you put them? Also, would they burn up easily and change the sound somewhat? Would they roll off the high pitch sound?

- Tai

I will post the results when I get done, I think a pair of 2.5" cats will do the trick so we shall see.

 

[baynsac]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I asked on the forcum whats the advantages of EMS over FIC on a 1991 obd1 car and here is the answer I got.(below) What do you think about this Will?




Full EMS is intended for the OBD1 cars. FIC is intended as a piggyback for the OBD2 system, and if you put it on the OBD1, the computer can lean itself out and cause detonation. OBD2 has extra sensors or something so the FIC can monitor AFR better and avoid that problem.

I don't remember the technical aspects of why all that is, but boil it down and that's pretty much it. OBD1 (your car) needs the full AEM EMS

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I asked on the forcum whats the advantages of EMS over FIC on a 1991 obd1 car and here is the answer I got.(below) What do you think about this Will?




Full EMS is intended for the OBD1 cars. FIC is intended as a piggyback for the OBD2 system, and if you put it on the OBD1, the computer can lean itself out and cause detonation. OBD2 has extra sensors or something so the FIC can monitor AFR better and avoid that problem.

I don't remember the technical aspects of why all that is, but boil it down and that's pretty much it. OBD1 (your car) needs the full AEM EMS

I have heard much speculation on this topic and while the FIC was originally designed for OBDII, it does perform flawlessly on OBDII and the things you heard are simply not true, the programming of the FIC cannot "erase itself".

The FIC has been used successfully by many turbo and supercharger kit makers (including myself) on many, many OBDI cars.

The main reasons I do not recommend the full EMS to 95% of users is because (amongst others) they will never use most of the features, the programming is more extensive (read more$$$) and the possibility that it will need re-tuning is higher.

Also you will lose your traction control and check engine light function as well as your cold start and normal driving parameters will now need to be programmed (as opposed to the FIC where those parameters are based on the stock maps)

Don't forget the OEM ecu is programmed to run well under a wide range of tempratures, humidity, altitude, etc. and this is not the case if you choose a full EMS.

This just one more reason why I recommend the FIC since your car WILL run and drive like stock, aside from the added power under boost.

The EMS is more suited to serious racers and is recommended for those who know exactly what they are getting and are willing to forgo the features of the OEM engine management system.

In the end I think you might be wise to look at the examples set by those who are running my kit with the FIC on OBDI NSX's rather than "expert" forum advice from those who hold no reponsibility for their statements.

 

[Frank Spano]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I have the FIC with Wil's kit, I drove 3 hours yesterday, and this car drives and starts like a factory car until you step on the throttle.:biggrin: This kit is great, and I had a really good tuner as well. FI makes the car so much more fun to drive, especially when it runs like a stock car. Frank

 

[hardcore-nsx]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Really thinking hard on pulling the trigger on this kit. I have never installed a Turbo Kit in my life, Im worried I will get half way through and say wtf was I thinking! I installed a Kenne Bell on my 03 Cobra with minimal trouble. Will this be comparable? I know nothing on Turbo's. Most of the members on here who have purchased this kit, seemed to know a little about them. Are there any members who installed this kit themselves without any prior Turbo expierence?

 

[Frank Spano]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

The turbo kit was a breeze to install. My friend installed my kit on jacksatnds in my garage. I am funny like that, sending my car to a shop or dealer. My car is mint and I want to keep it that way. My friend is a mechanic, but has never installed a complete turbo kit. Wil, stated if you can install a muffler, his turbo kit would be like that. He was definately correct. If you have any questions feel free to call me, and I can put you in touch with my friend that installed my kit. Pull the trigger on the kit, you will be happy you did, Frank

 

[hardcore-nsx]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

The turbo kit was a breeze to install. My friend installed my kit on jacksatnds in my garage. I am funny like that, sending my car to a shop or dealer. My car is mint and I want to keep it that way. My friend is a mechanic, but has never installed a complete turbo kit. Wil, stated if you can install a muffler, his turbo kit would be like that. He was definately correct. If you have any questions feel free to call me, and I can put you in touch with my friend that installed my kit. Pull the trigger on the kit, you will be happy you did, Frank

Thanks for the info Frank! I also talked to Cosmo, he was very helpful. I want to make sure I can find a good tuner here in Indiana or Chicago, before I commit. If any one knows of any please message me. I want to get this going.

 

[RichM]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Really thinking hard on pulling the trigger on this kit. I have never installed a Turbo Kit in my life, Im worried I will get half way through and say wtf was I thinking! I installed a Kenne Bell on my 03 Cobra with minimal trouble. Will this be comparable? I know nothing on Turbo's. Most of the members on here who have purchased this kit, seemed to know a little about them. Are there any members who installed this kit themselves without any prior Turbo expierence?

My main projects before installing the turbo was supercharging my vette and viper-

if you can install a supercharger I think you have the level of skill for the turbocharger- which really means the nerve to get your hands a little dirty.

I made my install a little harder than necessary by swapping out my oil pan for one with welded oil outlets and internal baffles (probably overkill) and fooling with stainless hoses.

In addition, since my install the number of pictures and posts has grown exponentially- and while Angus is super great for answering questions regarding the install - most if not all questions have been asked and answered- often with pictures.

Bottom line- great system, straightforward install, great service and there is something to be said for - "I do my own work"


Rich

 

[Frank Spano]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Hardcore, call Ralphy at DRT tuning in Yonkers NY, and tell him you need atuner in your area. Tell him Frank with the white nsx told you to call. He will hook you up wih the right tuner. Frank

 

[hardcore-nsx]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Hardcore, call Ralphy at DRT tuning in Yonkers NY, and tell him you need atuner in your area. Tell him Frank with the white nsx told you to call. He will hook you up wih the right tuner. Frank

Thanks Frank, I will call them today..

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

Wow, I just spent about 1 1/2 hours reading every page. I never come to this part of the forum. So many horror stories. Great to see so much love for this kit and the fact that nearly everyone here installed the kit in a matter of weeks is just amazing.

I am going to come clean and admit I was thinking of trading in my NSX for a Porsche c4. (don't flame please) The P car is a little more refined and if it got a door ding I wouldn't cringe. I have always wanted more speed but up until now, boost always came with issues; a lot of issues. You guys are throwing HP numbers around that are insane, 350,375,400++ hp at the wheels. I am sitting here like the rest of us wanabee's with a lowly RWP in the 230hp range.

Give me 360-380hp at the crank and 330+at the wheels and I would fall in love all over again. It seems like about 5-6lb of boost would do it!

 

[doc_tai]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

5.5 psi put down 380 whp on my car on dyno jet

 

[angus]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

I think Frank Spano has almost identical #s at the same boost.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

CPTNSX put down some dyno numbers on his SOS supercharged NSX. At 7.2 pounds of boost his rear wheels produced max hp at 412 and torque of 314.

It seems like this turbo package has quite a bit higher torque numbers. All things being equal why would a turbo have more torque than a SC?

 

[Cozmo]

Re: DIY Turbo kit

CPTNSX put down some dyno numbers on his SOS supercharged NSX. At 7.2 pounds of boost his rear wheels produced max hp at 412 and torque of 314.

It seems like this turbo package has quite a bit higher torque numbers. All things being equal why would a turbo have more torque than a SC?

Well I'm no expert but I'm gonna go out on a crazy limb and say..
Because all things aren't equal. The only equal thing is the amount of boost.
There's a helluva lot more to it than just the peak HP and TQ, such as what RPM that peak torque happens. Go do a search for "area under the curve"
. Or compare the graphs of a supercharged nsx vs. turbo.

So by looking at this chart you can see that under 4500 RPM the SOS SC beats the turbo, but after that it is no contest. If all you look at is the peak HP number those 2 options would look the same.
The turbo car will drive like normal if you keep your foot out of the throttle.