Anyone see the new NA Power Paks from Science of Speed?

[j14nsx]

2. The ECU programs for the stock computer are developed with 91 octane pump gas. The Japanese (and possibly the European) ECUs are programmed from the factory for a higher octane used by these regions.

If I were to send you a UK ECU chip, do you have the ability to read it, and compare to a US one? If there are differences in maps, could you then be able to provide a Stage 1 map to suit Euro cars? I have a socketed ECU, and can therefore send the standard chip to you while running a spare chip.

Our octance numbers do look different to the US ones, we can get 98 octane rated petrol at the pumps, however the way this is measured is different here than in the US.

 

[JChoice]

Well, I am getting the Stage II - TB, Cams, polished intake, etc. and I'll be doing a before and after dyno. I'll post my results.

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

I had been following this VERY interesting thread and SOS's new line of hardcore N/A power packages....

#1) So whatever happened to the dyno charts and/or performance info which were SUPPOSE to be posted for the various stages 1, 2, and all-out 3.

#2) Has anyone on this form installed their stage 2 or 3 package yet ?? If so, details please.

#3) I HATE it when a tuner promises a new product and great things but falls short on FOLLOW-UP and EVIDENCE. No flame intended, I'm sure Science of speed is an excellent company with great tuners however they need to realize there are REAL clients on this forum reading and posting...not following up on a promise to show detailed results with dyno charts reflects very poorly on those individuals/clients. (myself being one of them )

...So, what's the deal Chris ? I'm REALLY interested in that big write up / dyno charts...this may be a great alternative to many supercharger kits for us big track guys looking for reliability.

 

[dynatac]

i'm wondering whats going on too.
from what i've seen, and based on others experiences, its not like SoS to disappoint.

 

[peiserg]

i agree SOS typically doesn't dissapoint. In fact, is there a single unresolved unsatisfied customer complain out there? I'm sure chris would be more than happy to demo his car with the stage III setup to anyone who walks into the store.. and he does have it dyno'd at 320+, which is a huge gain for the 3.0 engine...so rather than nitpick, until someone comes forth with a genuinely valid complaint, i'd rather see "thanks for putting in the effort for those of us who don't want to risk F/I" vs. "i think you are FOS"

 

[ryan1926]

I agree! I am really excited about the NA option. However, being that I am from California, is there any update on whether Stage II and III will receive some kind of CARB exemption? If so then I am all in!!!! Thanks in advance for any info!

 

[effer]

I would also be very interested to the stage III because IMO one of the very charming and attractive quality ( among many others ) about the NSX is its NA configuration.

So my question is:

What about the engine sound?

Still as musical and addictive?


Cheers all.

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

.... and he does have it dyno'd at 320+, which is a huge gain for the 3.0 engine...so rather than nitpick, until someone comes forth with a genuinely valid complaint, i'd rather see "thanks for putting in the effort for those of us who don't want to risk F/I" vs. "i think you are FOS"

Where did you hear of his car dyno'ing @ 320+ RWHP ?? He told me one of their stage 3 packages had dynoed 318 rw once but if he has a dyno sheet *showing* 320+ rwhp I would be VERY interested/excited in seeing that...please share. (I hadn't seen the 318rwhp cars dyno as of yet either)


Second, I don't "thank" someone for not producing needed charts, follow-up, evidence to support their mods/claims. There IS a lot of "shit" that fly's around the internet...


Third, before you start flaming me for "pickin on" SOS for my desire to see a follow on this package I think its helpful to relay "WHY" I have somewhat pessimistic tone. Some of you remember about 6-to-9 months ago a company by the name of "Cybernation Motorsports" in Miami, FL stated they had successfully produce and installed an intercooled turbo kit for the NSX's. roughly 380-400RWHP for $4990. One of the main reasons for the low costs was the use of an SS-box for fuel management. Well, needless to say...after many months of waiting, and them publishing on several different tuner magazines (and stating it on the internet + their website) that it IS coming as for sure as a kit...they never produced and didn't even give an excuse why. Other tuners such as hennessey motorsports have major lawsuits against them by DOZENS of individuals for not turning out what they promised their customers....and their are many many more examples of this.....furthermore, after talking to Chris, he told me they do not dyno their engines (either engine dyno OR rw before sending it out to you if you have the motor shipped back) and do not give ANY garuantees on the horsepower the package will make. Hence, we're relying a lot on faith here, LOL. For all these reasons it makes it quintessential to have verified dyno charts of real world examples with a write-up/follow-up and possibly even customer testimony before just handing a company NOT known traditionally for their "engine building" nearly $8000 *just for PARTS* Over $9400 total for your engine to be rebuilt with the package of parts by them**


...having said all that, I am very hopefull that they'll come through with all this and pump out a hell of a package...IF SO, I'll be the first in line to shell out nearly $10,000 to them to have my engine be a "320+ RWHP" naturally aspirated monster.

 

[NetViper]

I don't blame you one bit for wanting dyno charts. I meant how can one claim +XX HP if they have nothing to back that up?

I am sure SoS product will be awesome, but I would be cautious too if I was spending $10,000!

Doesn't factor X also have a 3.3L V6 NA option? Anyone know what kind of numbers it makes and what it costs?

 

[peiserg]

ok, i'll change my statement to read "dyno showing 318+" instead of 320 +... i rounded up by 1.x hp.

and yes i did wonder what happend to the cybernations turbo setup...

 

[prova4re]

Man you guy's kill me!
NSXTASY_MD.......Your comparing SOS to Cybernation Motorsports, give me a break!!!

SOS is in the Nsx market FULL time, its not a part time gig like some of the other vendors.

A GOOD vendor brings a new product to the market, and you guy's jump all over him?????
There are NOT that many GOOD vendors for Nsx parts to start with, why would you want to piss on one of the only vendors that NOBODY has problems with?

If your that interested in the product, buy a plane ticket to AZ, and go drive his car.
They are just getting settled into there new dig's give them a break.

Cybernation Motorsports turbo kit blew up, the price was to low, and they wanted to go after the RSX and S2000 market.
Insted of the small pickey Nsx market.

 

[stevenlee]

I was just up to FactorX 2 weeks ago and they had just installed their 3.3 liter NA in a customer's car. I left before they had a chance to tune it but I'm sure it would give great low end torque and have the other benefits of NA power. I believe they can go as large as 3.5 liter in NA. Their prices seem to be very competitive for their NA package and quoted me parts and labor combo that would net a savings over buying the parts and labor separately.

 

[blackcat]

But wait there is always Dali!!!!

You can buy from them with good faith and honest service. Just fedex him 10k or mail him cash...

 

[ak]

How about we have a showdown of FX 3.3L vs SOS 3.3L at NSXpo?! That ought to be good although I know that'll never happen

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

I think I'd go with Factor X personally considering they HAVE a core-exchange program for their built motors (i.e. little down time, simply ship your stock motor and about ~$8500 to recieve the race ready turn key motor to bolt in your X)

...SOS offers no such program which for 90% of the potential clients is a HUGE negative (among other things)

...even worse, AFTER you've removed and shipped your motor out to them (SOS),and paid out nearly $10,000 total (for the additional labor charges)...they stated to me they'd need 4-to-8 WEEKS before they'll get it back to you....NO THANKS.

...SOS may be a great suppier of NSX PARTS, but that doesn't make a "tuner." And IMO they need to re-evaluate the options (or lack their of) that they give customers. There wouldn't be a problem if everyone lived within a one hour radius of their shop


Lastly, if the " its not a part time gig like some of the other vendors." was aimed at MJ @ Dali racing I'll have you know that myself and everyone I know personally has had nothing but EXCELLENT service from that man...great feedback, excellent packaging, ridiculously fast turn around time...in my order I got my springs and other assessories literaly on the second day after my order (and I'm in D.C., vs. west coast). And I don't even want to mention his prices...I don't know how he does it...you'll literally buy half the things SOS offers on thier site for 30% less @ Dali. Its actually amazing to me how efficently he runs his "part-time" business....better than most "full-time" businesses.


Again, SOS is a great company in its own right as many have mentioned (and generally speaking, I agree...Chris is really cool too) But I hate it when people FLAME just becuase someone raises difficult questions and throws pessimesm into a discussion. Thats what we're here for folks! An open exchange to discuss the pro's and con's of everything as to not be in the dark about ALL our options = informed.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

We currently have much on our plates, but will be updating the natural aspiration tune online catalog over the next few weeks along with the introduction of some new long in development products.

NSXTASY_MD (sorry, I do not know your name): you seem to be confused about some of our products, feel free to call us any time if you have any specific questions.

best regards,
-- Chris

 

[JChoice]

NSXTASY_MD:

So are you actually going to make a purchase now that you've done your "research"?

I'm happy for you that you had good experiences with Mark J. I had great experiences with him too- but guess what, many others didn't.

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

Chris@SOS,

Can't wait to see your updates and a thorough list / write up of what exactly your N/A builds will be all about (with a couple of dyno sheets to back them up) Will be checking your site periodically for them now


JChoice,


About the N/A engine build, thats the plan...I've been looking into this for a while now. I'd LOVE to do a hardcore N/A stroker, built engine with 8500 rpm redline type set-up.....it would have rock solid reliability and be in character with the original design of the car IMHO

...about Mark J, that surprises me honestly. How long ago did these negative experiences happen. Maybe he's gotten his act together...enterpernuerial teething problems or something Being myself and at least two of my personal friends (plus yourself) have had great dealings with him...and others haven't ? What could account for the inconsistencies ? I can only speak from my experiences when I say I would refer him to anyone...


PS: I just finished doing some research on MJ complaints and I'm seeing that the few of them that exist were posted a whiiiile back (almost a year ago-latest, to almost two years ago!-earliest) And now with payment thru paypal (which gives you a whole MONTH to reverse your payment) I don't see where the risk would be !?(assuming he's out to rip people off ) Particularly if the parts your ordering are claimed to be in stock. If he doesn't give you a tracking # or ship the parts he promised out to you within several days after recieving his payment in full....simply reverse it. Was paypal even a payment option back when these few complaints were made ?? Again, I would whole heartedly refer him to anyone for his service and EXCELLENT prices.

 

[MvM]

I have Taitec headers still lying around to be put on my '94 NSX. A Taitex exhaust is already on it.
I am also running the Dali chip and am wondering a bit if the SOS-chip would give any different and/or better results.
The Dali-chip alone was worth around 5-6HP on my car over a wide range even though the top-end stayed pretty much the same.

 

[prova4re]

I think I'd go with Factor X personally considering they HAVE a core-exchange program for their built motors (i.e. little down time, simply ship your stock motor and about ~$8500 to recieve the race ready turn key motor to bolt in your X)

I think that is a great idea, but..... I like MOST people want the engine numbers to match my car.

...SOS offers no such program which for 90% of the potential clients is a HUGE negative (among other things) [/B]

You should ask them how many people have done the swap program.

Lastly, if the " its not a part time gig like some of the other vendors." was aimed at MJ @ Dali racing I'll have you know that myself and everyone I know personally has had nothing but EXCELLENT service from that man...great feedback, excellent packaging, ridiculously fast turn around time...in my order I got my springs and other assessories literaly on the second day after my order (and I'm in D.C., vs. west coast). And I don't even want to mention his prices...I don't know how he does it...you'll literally buy half the things SOS offers on thier site for 30% less @ Dali. Its actually amazing to me how efficently he runs his "part-time" business....better than most "full-time" businesses. [/B]

We were talking about Cybernation Motorsports...... not Dali.

Again, SOS is a great company in its own right as many have mentioned (and generally speaking, I agree...Chris is really cool too) But I hate it when people FLAME just becuase someone raises difficult questions and throws pessimesm into a discussion. [/B]

Your using CAPITAL letters in your statements, that leads us to belive that you are yelling.
Why would you be yelling at a company that has not done anything wrong?
Your getting flamed because your yelling, and taking pot shot's at a vendor who works hard to please everyone.
This is not a Dali thread, there are plenty of those you can post your thought's to.

 

[NSXTASY_MD]

Your using CAPITAL letters in your statements, that leads us to belive that you are yelling.
Why would you be yelling at a company that has not done anything wrong?
Your getting flamed because your yelling, and taking pot shot's at a vendor who works hard to please everyone.
This is not a Dali thread, there are plenty of those you can post your thought's to.

The caps are to stress my points...an exclamation mark would be me yelling....call me old fashioned and not down with "internet" protocol. (i'm learning) Btw, I wasn't being flamed by many others for you to throw around "us" ...and have had several (won't name any names) people PM me directly thanking me for asking the serious questions for which their doesn't seem to be direct answers, just fluff

 

[peiserg]

nsxtacy_md,

You know, i actually agree with most of your statements, such as not wanting to wait x weeks for a turn-a-round, high index of suspicion prior to sending anyone $10,000, need for a dyno sheet, and SOS being known more for parts vs. tuning. But, as most of us kids in the playground know, there are multiple different ways to present a message, and perhaps what is riling up some of the members is that the tone is more accusatory than curious... But i do have a couple short points... regarding down time for the car, yes, a massive negative. With my bbsc, the time to tune get me back my car was probably the thing i was dissapointed with. I couldn't stand having my car tied up. Put me in a bad mood almost every day. But, you have to expect for a fully built motor (assuming it's your motor to begin with) some down time. Not really fair to think any shop, even acura, could turn around your motor in a couple days. And for me at least, the matching VIN is important.
Regarding just sending them $10k or whatever the price is, most venders, and i haven't asked SOS so don't know how this applies, but most venders only require a deposit, and then the balance on completion...

 

[satan_srv]

I like dynos. I suggest we drop the speculation and other questions about how it might perform and how their service might be until they have established the results of the testing and someone has actually purchased the NA package post results/testing and has some feedback on it.

Cause this line of discussion isn't really going anywhere.

 

[Arata]

I like dynos. I suggest we drop the speculation and other questions about how it might perform and how their service might be until they have established the results of the testing and someone has actually purchased the NA package post results/testing and has some feedback on it.

Cause this line of discussion isn't really going anywhere.

Are you also sugesting that the end user, rather than the person selling the product, should be the one testing and possibly developing the product?

In my veiw when someone makes a claim, the person making the claim should be able to back it up with some facts, or in this case dyno charts. And the fact that they are a respected seller of parts does not give them a free pass on this, in fact it makes it even more important.
It is up to the members of the forum to ask and demand that statements be backed up, of the people posting on this thread, a very small number of people are willing to do that.

 

[satan_srv]

Are you also sugesting that the end user, rather than the person selling the product, should be the one testing and possibly developing the product?

In my veiw when someone makes a claim, the person making the claim should be able to back it up with some facts, or in this case dyno charts. And the fact that they are a respected seller of parts does not give them a free pass on this, in fact it makes it even more important.
It is up to the members of the forum to ask and demand that statements be backed up, of the people posting on this thread, a very small number of people are willing to do that.

I completely agree. There's numbers posted by manufacturers/seller/tuner and then there's the independent owner results. The 2 together give credibility.

Three points worth considering, in my opinion of course

1. Don't complain about it if you aren't SERIOUS about buying the product advertised. It's one thing to say dynos would be good to see, it's another to demand them. I'm sure there are some serious buyers here but there are also a bunch of people chiming in that really aren't that interested except giving their 2 cents worth.

2. unless you've built motors and done testing and R&D (I have) you're really don't have much insight into the amount of effort/work involved in bringing a product to market. So to criticize the time/delay in things is a little out there. Also I'd bet that SoS isn't doing much of the work themselves (I could be wrong). so in reality they are making promises based on the delivery dates of a third party, which is always problematic.

3. If you are the seller, promise nothing until you've get everything together and backed up. This is the Internet and everyone just looooves to be skeptical because everyone thinks the are just a little bit smarter than the other guy. If you let the results speak for themselves, you never have to answer for yourself.

Okay enough ranbling. It's not a perfect world, but I usually only like to comment on things I'd like to believe I have some experience with