Anyone anti-turbo nsx???
- Thread starter powerslave7
- Start date
ENSSEX
Suspended
im sorry but I had to jump in here these are moronic reasons and more of a poor excuse
- Joined
- 15 July 2007
- Messages
- 311
No, it's because I'm in boost a lot so that's why my mileage is bad. You are right if I don't stay in boost, it would stay the same.
- Joined
- 15 July 2007
- Messages
- 311
Moronic? Are you kidding? Quit smoking crack and try finishing grade school before making a comment. There's nothing moronic about what I said here.
Learn how to drive? How many accidents have you been in? I have ZERO accidents in the last FIFTEEN years. I drove my NSX through TWO winters commuting from GRANDE PRAIRIE to EDMONTON putting on 50k in two years. I did this in a NSX. I also own a BMW that I chose not to drive because I love my NSX. I wanted more power for my car but did not realize all the things that came with it.
If you really want to talk to me, please pm me instead of taking a cheap shot.
The following people can vouch for me if needed about my driving and story:
FFFFANMAN
NCC-1701D
and even maybe Angus (as I bought the turbo from him)
***I drove from Vancouver to Edmonton*** in 8 hours with ZERO tickets and accidents
How about you learn to know the full story before making comments which any intelligent person can see as being a DICK.
Also you should call WestSide Acura and ask them if their NSX mechanics are all over 95. I'm curious to know and I will tell them what you said.
You can also call them and ask them if they could work on my car if it didn't have a turbo.
I'm also confident if you ask Angus himself he would say that there are LIMITED mechanics (if any) capable of working on the car let alone understanding his set-tup. When I did have a problem with the turbo, it wasn't like a bolt was loose or something. I am a fully licensed pharmacist and mortgage broker NOT a fully licensed mechanic.
Now the last time I remember not using capitals, periods and using red font to get attention due to the lack of vocabulary was in grade two.
[definition
moron: Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years...
Please tell me when to get to age 13 and and I'll update the above definition.
Regards,
Dave
ENSSEX
Suspended
well maybe I was a little harsh... There are a ton of people with Lovefab,as well as Angus's set up with no complaints like you LISTED...
Working on a turbo is common practice nowadays.. so why your local acura dealer cannot do this work is beyond me...maybe because you should deal with people who do this all the time....
As a Pharmacist maybe prescribing narcotics is a better choice than raising a bunch of issues about something you clearly no NOTHING about is a better choice
a Better posting
" Well my luck with a turbo setup on my NSX has not been the most conducive method for gaining power and heres why:
I have had a hard time finding any experienced mechanic to tune or install this on my Honda as my local dealer doesn't do this type of work"
"Also I never realized how loud it can be "
Well as a mortgage broker and Pharmacist maybe you should have treated this as how you do your day jobs... research the info..... Im sure you consult books everyday before giving out drugs to people and make it clear HOW to use them.....
General Turbo Information
TURBO BASICS &TIPS
Turbos provide enhanced fuel economy and performance. A turbo is a basic "air pump" that pushes a volume of air into the engine, which increases the power output. This turbo "air pump" is driven by a fan located in the exhaust by a direct shaft. The more exhaust that flows, the more air is pumped into the engine. In most automotive and some other applications, a wastegate is provided which opens as pressure is increased by the "air pump". This device prevents an overboost from damaging the engine.
Click on the picture for a full-screen image. (57k)
As air is pumped and compressed into the engine by the turbo, it rises in temperature. To reduce this problem and make the turbo more efficient, vehicle manufacturers have been adding intercoolers. An intercooler is a radiator for air and is usually located in front of, or behind the main radiator itself. To add to the life of the turbo unit, some turbos are also water-cooled by coolant system connections. This feature limits the operating temperature of the turbo to the temperature of the cooling system, thus, protecting the bearing assemble from excessive exhaust temperature.
Turbo units may obtain speeds up to 100,000 RPMs, depending on the application, so it is extremely important that a sufficient supply of clean oil always be entering the turbo while the engine is running. If for any reason, whenever the oil supply is interrupted or becomes contaminated, "good-bye turbo".
Turbo failures are mostly caused by lack of lubrication or abrasive material in the oil. Other failures occur when heavy particles enter the air stream on the suction side. Therefore, a clean air filter and ducting is necessary. Another type of failure may be caused by objects from within the engine leaving via the exhaust. This could be hard carbon, broken engine parts, manifold rust, etc.
To prevent most failures, may we offer the following suggestions:
Change the oil at least every 3,000 miles, or more frequently if you wish.
Always use the oil that is recommended by the engine manufacturer.
Do not use cleaning additives for it may loosen particles in any used engine.
Always let the engine warm up when starting. 30-60 seconds in warmer weather and longer as the temperature drops.
COLD, THICK OIL DOES NOT FLOW AS FREELY AS WARM OIL!
Do not rev engine during warm up time, the turbo may not yet have received a full supply of oil.
Always let the engine idle for a period when stopping. The faster you have driven, the longer you should let it idle down.
YOUR TURBO IS FREE SPINNING AT HIGH RPMS WHEN THE ENGINE IS SHUT OFF THE OIL SUPPLY IS ALSO SHUT OFF, WHICH MAY RESULT IN BEARING DAMAGE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.
When oil is changed, always prime the filter and crank over engine without starting until oil pressure is observed.
By following these suggestion, and practicing good driving habits, your turbo should last as long as the engine.
Article from: Sport Compact Car Magazine October 1994
BY CHRIS WEISBERG
The term "turbo" or "turbocharger" is frequently heard in the world of high-performance. However, many people are unfamiliar with these devices and this is unfortunate, because turbocharging is one of the most cost-effective methods of producing maximum horsepower per dollar.
The turbo itself is a relatively simple device. Its moving parts basically consist of two wheels mounted on a common shaft; the turbine wheel and compressor wheel. The shaft is mounted in oil-fed bearings inside a compact center housing and the wheels are located at either end of the shaft, each one in its own housing. In function, exhaust gases leaving the engine are directed into the turbine housing. This housing directs. the high-velocity gases at the turbine wheel, causing the wheel to rotate. After the gases have passed through the turbine wheel, they exit the turbine housing and are discharged through the vehicle's exhaust system. The rotation of the turbine wheel drives the compressor wheel (which is at the opposite end of the shaft). As the compressor wheel spins, it inducts air into the compressor housing. There it is compressed and discharged into the intake system of the engine, providing boost pressure. A turbocharger creates horsepower by forcing more air into an engine than that engine could normally ingest during the intake portion of its cycle. It does this by compressing air then forcing it into the intake manifold and ports. This additional pressure is known as boost pressure. Boost pressure is typically expressed in pounds per square inch or millimeters of Mercury. This gives us an indication of how much additional airflow and pressure there is available to the engine when the turbo is operating. The amount of boost pressure is usually determined by a wastegate. This device is frequently an integral part of the turbine housing. It functions by passing exhaust gases around the turbine wheel so that the amount of exhaust driving the turbine is limited. In this way, by opening the wastegate at a preset boost level, we can control the speed of the turbine wheel (which is driving the compressor) to maintain that boost pressure without overboosting or providing the engine with too much airflow and pressure.
Supercharger VS.Turbocharger
Many people are confused about the differences between a super charger and turbocharger. Booth families of devices are basically air compressors, but they're operated' quite differently from each other. A supercharger is mechanically driven by the engine itself; usually off the crankshaft by a cogged belt and pulley system. This means that a supercharger uses up some of the engine's horsepower just to drive itself - often 60 horsepower or more! Fortunately, the airflow generated by the supercharger helps it produce far more horsepower than it requires to operate.
A turbocharger, however, is driven by the thermal energy of the exhaust gases of the engine. With non-turbocharged vehicles, these gases are simply discharged out of the engine as quickly and efficiently as possible, wasting a surprising amount of energy in the form of noise and heat. A turbocharger uses some of that energy (which would otherwise be wasted) to drive its compressor, without the attendant horsepower loss of a crankdriven system.
The result? The turbocharged engine stands to produce more peak horsepower than a comparable supercharged engine, mostly because the turbo does not require any power from the crankshaft. Also, the turbocharged engine will typically run much quieter than a supercharged engine since the turbo has no gears, belts or pulleys and because the turbo itself muffles the exhaust. And while many superchargers are large, heavy devices (we've all seen Roots-type blowers sticking up through the hoods of muscle cars), the turbocharger is a relatively small package - a turbo capable of producing 600 horsepower can weigh only 15 pounds and be easily held in one hand. It is for these reasons that turbocharging has become increasingly popular with both OE and aftermarket manufacturers. Automakers can produce lightweight vehicles with good fuel economy yet excellent power thanks to the turbo. The aftermarket manufacturers have jumped into the game, offering larger turbocharger "upgrades" in place of factory turbos, or even complete turbo "kits" to convert a naturally-aspirated vehicle to turbocharged configuration. One question we hear quite often at SCC is whether a normally-aspirated engine can be turbocharged. Any engine can be turbocharged, and there are a number of turbo kits available to allow you to do this to a variety of vehicles. However, if you cannot locate a kit for your vehicle (or you choose not to purchase an existing kit), you can build a custom installation yourself.
The fundamentals are basically these:
* Exhaust must be routed to the turbine inlet of the turbocharger. This is typically done with a turbo exhaust manifold, when available, or a custom adapter plate to allow you to mount the turbo to the factory exhaust manifold.
*Exhaust must be directed out of the turbine discharge of the turbocharger. This can typically
be done at a muffler shop, where a custom down-pipe will be fabricated, to connect the turbine
discharge side of the turbo to the exhaust system.
*Air must be ducted from the air filter to the compressor inlet, and from the compressor
discharge to the intake manifold. This is typically done in aluminum or steel tubing which is then coupled at all joints by silicone hose couplings or nitrile rubber connectors. Flex hose is sometimes used on the inlet side of the compressor since it is only subjected to vacuum, not pressure.
*Pressurized oil must be fed to the turbocharger's bearings. The most common place to tap into an oil galley is at the oil pressure sending unit.
*An oil drain line must be installed so that the oil used to lubricate the turbocharger can drain back to the oil pan. This is typically done by brazing a hose fitting to the pan and using a large diameter, oil-resistant hose from the bottom of the turbo to the side of the pan. The heart of the turbo system is of course, the turbocharger itself. The size and model of turbo that you require can vary radically depending on your application (i.e. street, track, drag). The larger turbochargers can produce tremendous amounts of power, but they will take longer to spool up (turbo lag). This is a function of the size of compressor and turbine wheels, as well as the turbine housing itself. A turbocharger applications specialist will be able to assist you in
choosing the proper turbocharger for your car.
Boost Control Devices
There are a variety of kinds of boost controls on the market. Some control air flow in and out of the compressor (such as pop-off valves or restrictors), but the most efficient (and for this reason the most popular) are controllers that work on the turbine side, which are known as wastegates.
As mentioned earlier in the article, the turbine wheel is driven by exhaust gases. A wastegate functions by taking a portion of the exhaust gas that would drive the turbine wheel and rerouting to bypass the turbine wheel. This way we can control the speed of the turbocharger and therefore, limit the boost the turbo produces. A boost control should be used so that you can limit the total amount of boost to the engine to prevent detonation.
There are other details to contend with, such as fuel enrichments, ignition controls, where and why to install check valves in vacuum lines, and so on. Therefore, it will be very helpful to both you and those helping you if you do your homework ahead of time. There are several useful books written specifically on the subject of turbocharging, some of which are available from bookstores.
Is turbocharging safe for my engine?
There are several factors to take into account when turbocharging a vehicle. First, if the engine has high mileage and/or a good deal of wear, your money may be better spent freshening up the rings, bearings, valve guides, etc. before you invest in a turbo system. The additional stress put on the engine's internal components by the increase in horsepower may cause a weak engine to expire!
Furthermore, you -should determine whether, the engine's compression ratio permits the addition of a turbo. Since we're already compressing the charge air with the turbo, the higher the engine's static compression ratio is, the greater the tendency toward detonation. In other words, the higher your compression, the less boost you can run.
You must also take the fuel and ignition systems into account. I your fuel injection or carburetor going to be able to compensate for the additional airflow generated I the turbocharger and add a corre sponding amount of fuel under boost? Is your ignition system cap able of retarding the spark timing under boost, if necessary? Both fuel and ignition systems must be up the engine's demands, as the incorrect fuel delivery or spark timing can cause harmful detonation( Of course, correct fuel delivery and spark timing can make a great deal of
horsepower!)
Conclusion
In our opinion, when properly installed a turbocharger system is capable of producing the best bang for the buck. When factoring in its reasonable cost, relatively compact size and adaptability to any sport compact car, turbocharging makes a whole lot of sense for the enthusiast seeking big time horsepower gains!
For those that can't get enough of turbo-related goodies, check out the Turbo Club Of America. A one-year membership entitles you to club discounts on performance equipment from participating manufacturers and six issues of Turbo Club News plus much more!
Author Chris Weisberg is a Turbocharger Specialist for Turbonetics, Inc., manufacturers of custom turbochargers and controls.
Garrett Turbos:
Garrett basically has two lines of turbos. The ancient, inefficient T series turbos and the new, ball bearing GT series turbos.
T family has T22, T25, T3, T350, To4B, To4E, TS04, To4R ...These are 50 year old, WWII generation turbos.
The newer line of GT turbos are ball bearing on journal and thrust bearing. The turbine and compressor wheels are improvely aerodynamically to flow more air. GT20, GT22, GT25, GT30, GT35, GT40, GT45, GT50... GT turbos produce slightly more hp then older T series turbos with the same number designation.
Turbonetics and many domestic makers turbos based on T series turbos. A T3/To4E 60 T .63A/R is a hybrid turbo with T3 turbine, To4E compressor, 60 Trim compressor wheel and .63 A/R turbine housing.
Wheel "trim" refers to the squared ratio of the smaller diameter divided by the larger diameter times 100. Generally, the larger the trim number the more flow the wheel has.
For compressor wheels , larger trim tends to mean slightly lower efficiency.
For "families" of turbine wheels (those with the same inducer diameter), larger trim usually means better flow with less backpressure but longer spool time.
A/R is a ratio of the exhaust discharge area vs the distance from the center of turbine wheel to the center of the cross sectional area. Smaller A/R housing has faster spool up. Bigger A/R housing has less back pressure, more flow for the top end.
The so called "T-series': T60, T61, T66, T70, T72, T76... are T4 turbos as well. The number means the compressor inducer size. ie: T76 means it has 76mm compressor inducer.
HKS uses Garrett turbos. HKS GT series turbos use Garrett GT's turbine with GT's compressor.
For example, HKS GT 2835 is GT28 turbine with GT35 52 trim compressor.
The newer line of Garrett GT-R turbos are hybrid turbos. For example, GT30R is a hybrid of GT30 turbine mated to 56 trim GT37 compressor
Working on a turbo is common practice nowadays.. so why your local acura dealer cannot do this work is beyond me...maybe because you should deal with people who do this all the time....
As a Pharmacist maybe prescribing narcotics is a better choice than raising a bunch of issues about something you clearly no NOTHING about is a better choice
a Better posting
" Well my luck with a turbo setup on my NSX has not been the most conducive method for gaining power and heres why:
I have had a hard time finding any experienced mechanic to tune or install this on my Honda as my local dealer doesn't do this type of work"
"Also I never realized how loud it can be "
Well as a mortgage broker and Pharmacist maybe you should have treated this as how you do your day jobs... research the info..... Im sure you consult books everyday before giving out drugs to people and make it clear HOW to use them.....
General Turbo Information
TURBO BASICS &TIPS
Turbos provide enhanced fuel economy and performance. A turbo is a basic "air pump" that pushes a volume of air into the engine, which increases the power output. This turbo "air pump" is driven by a fan located in the exhaust by a direct shaft. The more exhaust that flows, the more air is pumped into the engine. In most automotive and some other applications, a wastegate is provided which opens as pressure is increased by the "air pump". This device prevents an overboost from damaging the engine.
Click on the picture for a full-screen image. (57k)
As air is pumped and compressed into the engine by the turbo, it rises in temperature. To reduce this problem and make the turbo more efficient, vehicle manufacturers have been adding intercoolers. An intercooler is a radiator for air and is usually located in front of, or behind the main radiator itself. To add to the life of the turbo unit, some turbos are also water-cooled by coolant system connections. This feature limits the operating temperature of the turbo to the temperature of the cooling system, thus, protecting the bearing assemble from excessive exhaust temperature.
Turbo units may obtain speeds up to 100,000 RPMs, depending on the application, so it is extremely important that a sufficient supply of clean oil always be entering the turbo while the engine is running. If for any reason, whenever the oil supply is interrupted or becomes contaminated, "good-bye turbo".
Turbo failures are mostly caused by lack of lubrication or abrasive material in the oil. Other failures occur when heavy particles enter the air stream on the suction side. Therefore, a clean air filter and ducting is necessary. Another type of failure may be caused by objects from within the engine leaving via the exhaust. This could be hard carbon, broken engine parts, manifold rust, etc.
To prevent most failures, may we offer the following suggestions:
Change the oil at least every 3,000 miles, or more frequently if you wish.
Always use the oil that is recommended by the engine manufacturer.
Do not use cleaning additives for it may loosen particles in any used engine.
Always let the engine warm up when starting. 30-60 seconds in warmer weather and longer as the temperature drops.
COLD, THICK OIL DOES NOT FLOW AS FREELY AS WARM OIL!
Do not rev engine during warm up time, the turbo may not yet have received a full supply of oil.
Always let the engine idle for a period when stopping. The faster you have driven, the longer you should let it idle down.
YOUR TURBO IS FREE SPINNING AT HIGH RPMS WHEN THE ENGINE IS SHUT OFF THE OIL SUPPLY IS ALSO SHUT OFF, WHICH MAY RESULT IN BEARING DAMAGE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.
When oil is changed, always prime the filter and crank over engine without starting until oil pressure is observed.
By following these suggestion, and practicing good driving habits, your turbo should last as long as the engine.
Article from: Sport Compact Car Magazine October 1994
BY CHRIS WEISBERG
The term "turbo" or "turbocharger" is frequently heard in the world of high-performance. However, many people are unfamiliar with these devices and this is unfortunate, because turbocharging is one of the most cost-effective methods of producing maximum horsepower per dollar.
The turbo itself is a relatively simple device. Its moving parts basically consist of two wheels mounted on a common shaft; the turbine wheel and compressor wheel. The shaft is mounted in oil-fed bearings inside a compact center housing and the wheels are located at either end of the shaft, each one in its own housing. In function, exhaust gases leaving the engine are directed into the turbine housing. This housing directs. the high-velocity gases at the turbine wheel, causing the wheel to rotate. After the gases have passed through the turbine wheel, they exit the turbine housing and are discharged through the vehicle's exhaust system. The rotation of the turbine wheel drives the compressor wheel (which is at the opposite end of the shaft). As the compressor wheel spins, it inducts air into the compressor housing. There it is compressed and discharged into the intake system of the engine, providing boost pressure. A turbocharger creates horsepower by forcing more air into an engine than that engine could normally ingest during the intake portion of its cycle. It does this by compressing air then forcing it into the intake manifold and ports. This additional pressure is known as boost pressure. Boost pressure is typically expressed in pounds per square inch or millimeters of Mercury. This gives us an indication of how much additional airflow and pressure there is available to the engine when the turbo is operating. The amount of boost pressure is usually determined by a wastegate. This device is frequently an integral part of the turbine housing. It functions by passing exhaust gases around the turbine wheel so that the amount of exhaust driving the turbine is limited. In this way, by opening the wastegate at a preset boost level, we can control the speed of the turbine wheel (which is driving the compressor) to maintain that boost pressure without overboosting or providing the engine with too much airflow and pressure.
Supercharger VS.Turbocharger
Many people are confused about the differences between a super charger and turbocharger. Booth families of devices are basically air compressors, but they're operated' quite differently from each other. A supercharger is mechanically driven by the engine itself; usually off the crankshaft by a cogged belt and pulley system. This means that a supercharger uses up some of the engine's horsepower just to drive itself - often 60 horsepower or more! Fortunately, the airflow generated by the supercharger helps it produce far more horsepower than it requires to operate.
A turbocharger, however, is driven by the thermal energy of the exhaust gases of the engine. With non-turbocharged vehicles, these gases are simply discharged out of the engine as quickly and efficiently as possible, wasting a surprising amount of energy in the form of noise and heat. A turbocharger uses some of that energy (which would otherwise be wasted) to drive its compressor, without the attendant horsepower loss of a crankdriven system.
The result? The turbocharged engine stands to produce more peak horsepower than a comparable supercharged engine, mostly because the turbo does not require any power from the crankshaft. Also, the turbocharged engine will typically run much quieter than a supercharged engine since the turbo has no gears, belts or pulleys and because the turbo itself muffles the exhaust. And while many superchargers are large, heavy devices (we've all seen Roots-type blowers sticking up through the hoods of muscle cars), the turbocharger is a relatively small package - a turbo capable of producing 600 horsepower can weigh only 15 pounds and be easily held in one hand. It is for these reasons that turbocharging has become increasingly popular with both OE and aftermarket manufacturers. Automakers can produce lightweight vehicles with good fuel economy yet excellent power thanks to the turbo. The aftermarket manufacturers have jumped into the game, offering larger turbocharger "upgrades" in place of factory turbos, or even complete turbo "kits" to convert a naturally-aspirated vehicle to turbocharged configuration. One question we hear quite often at SCC is whether a normally-aspirated engine can be turbocharged. Any engine can be turbocharged, and there are a number of turbo kits available to allow you to do this to a variety of vehicles. However, if you cannot locate a kit for your vehicle (or you choose not to purchase an existing kit), you can build a custom installation yourself.
The fundamentals are basically these:
* Exhaust must be routed to the turbine inlet of the turbocharger. This is typically done with a turbo exhaust manifold, when available, or a custom adapter plate to allow you to mount the turbo to the factory exhaust manifold.
*Exhaust must be directed out of the turbine discharge of the turbocharger. This can typically
be done at a muffler shop, where a custom down-pipe will be fabricated, to connect the turbine
discharge side of the turbo to the exhaust system.
*Air must be ducted from the air filter to the compressor inlet, and from the compressor
discharge to the intake manifold. This is typically done in aluminum or steel tubing which is then coupled at all joints by silicone hose couplings or nitrile rubber connectors. Flex hose is sometimes used on the inlet side of the compressor since it is only subjected to vacuum, not pressure.
*Pressurized oil must be fed to the turbocharger's bearings. The most common place to tap into an oil galley is at the oil pressure sending unit.
*An oil drain line must be installed so that the oil used to lubricate the turbocharger can drain back to the oil pan. This is typically done by brazing a hose fitting to the pan and using a large diameter, oil-resistant hose from the bottom of the turbo to the side of the pan. The heart of the turbo system is of course, the turbocharger itself. The size and model of turbo that you require can vary radically depending on your application (i.e. street, track, drag). The larger turbochargers can produce tremendous amounts of power, but they will take longer to spool up (turbo lag). This is a function of the size of compressor and turbine wheels, as well as the turbine housing itself. A turbocharger applications specialist will be able to assist you in
choosing the proper turbocharger for your car.
Boost Control Devices
There are a variety of kinds of boost controls on the market. Some control air flow in and out of the compressor (such as pop-off valves or restrictors), but the most efficient (and for this reason the most popular) are controllers that work on the turbine side, which are known as wastegates.
As mentioned earlier in the article, the turbine wheel is driven by exhaust gases. A wastegate functions by taking a portion of the exhaust gas that would drive the turbine wheel and rerouting to bypass the turbine wheel. This way we can control the speed of the turbocharger and therefore, limit the boost the turbo produces. A boost control should be used so that you can limit the total amount of boost to the engine to prevent detonation.
There are other details to contend with, such as fuel enrichments, ignition controls, where and why to install check valves in vacuum lines, and so on. Therefore, it will be very helpful to both you and those helping you if you do your homework ahead of time. There are several useful books written specifically on the subject of turbocharging, some of which are available from bookstores.
Is turbocharging safe for my engine?
There are several factors to take into account when turbocharging a vehicle. First, if the engine has high mileage and/or a good deal of wear, your money may be better spent freshening up the rings, bearings, valve guides, etc. before you invest in a turbo system. The additional stress put on the engine's internal components by the increase in horsepower may cause a weak engine to expire!
Furthermore, you -should determine whether, the engine's compression ratio permits the addition of a turbo. Since we're already compressing the charge air with the turbo, the higher the engine's static compression ratio is, the greater the tendency toward detonation. In other words, the higher your compression, the less boost you can run.
You must also take the fuel and ignition systems into account. I your fuel injection or carburetor going to be able to compensate for the additional airflow generated I the turbocharger and add a corre sponding amount of fuel under boost? Is your ignition system cap able of retarding the spark timing under boost, if necessary? Both fuel and ignition systems must be up the engine's demands, as the incorrect fuel delivery or spark timing can cause harmful detonation( Of course, correct fuel delivery and spark timing can make a great deal of
horsepower!)
Conclusion
In our opinion, when properly installed a turbocharger system is capable of producing the best bang for the buck. When factoring in its reasonable cost, relatively compact size and adaptability to any sport compact car, turbocharging makes a whole lot of sense for the enthusiast seeking big time horsepower gains!
For those that can't get enough of turbo-related goodies, check out the Turbo Club Of America. A one-year membership entitles you to club discounts on performance equipment from participating manufacturers and six issues of Turbo Club News plus much more!
Author Chris Weisberg is a Turbocharger Specialist for Turbonetics, Inc., manufacturers of custom turbochargers and controls.
Garrett Turbos:
Garrett basically has two lines of turbos. The ancient, inefficient T series turbos and the new, ball bearing GT series turbos.
T family has T22, T25, T3, T350, To4B, To4E, TS04, To4R ...These are 50 year old, WWII generation turbos.
The newer line of GT turbos are ball bearing on journal and thrust bearing. The turbine and compressor wheels are improvely aerodynamically to flow more air. GT20, GT22, GT25, GT30, GT35, GT40, GT45, GT50... GT turbos produce slightly more hp then older T series turbos with the same number designation.
Turbonetics and many domestic makers turbos based on T series turbos. A T3/To4E 60 T .63A/R is a hybrid turbo with T3 turbine, To4E compressor, 60 Trim compressor wheel and .63 A/R turbine housing.
Wheel "trim" refers to the squared ratio of the smaller diameter divided by the larger diameter times 100. Generally, the larger the trim number the more flow the wheel has.
For compressor wheels , larger trim tends to mean slightly lower efficiency.
For "families" of turbine wheels (those with the same inducer diameter), larger trim usually means better flow with less backpressure but longer spool time.
A/R is a ratio of the exhaust discharge area vs the distance from the center of turbine wheel to the center of the cross sectional area. Smaller A/R housing has faster spool up. Bigger A/R housing has less back pressure, more flow for the top end.
The so called "T-series': T60, T61, T66, T70, T72, T76... are T4 turbos as well. The number means the compressor inducer size. ie: T76 means it has 76mm compressor inducer.
HKS uses Garrett turbos. HKS GT series turbos use Garrett GT's turbine with GT's compressor.
For example, HKS GT 2835 is GT28 turbine with GT35 52 trim compressor.
The newer line of Garrett GT-R turbos are hybrid turbos. For example, GT30R is a hybrid of GT30 turbine mated to 56 trim GT37 compressor
You should have just stopped there.
he also double posted ....
Leave MacReady alone.....He is the living proof that some people should not modify or touch their car.
Let a good thing be!
Don't mess with it.
Lots of people can learn from his mistake of diving into the unknown.
Trev
Let a good thing be!
Don't mess with it.
Lots of people can learn from his mistake of diving into the unknown.
Trev
To be honest i am not a big fan. From my limited knowledge TCing seems to add 120 or so horses and seems a lot of hassle for not that much ultimate gain. A good exhaust and a bit of blueprinting would be more than enough for me.
............
Last edited:
Thread seems to have taken a bad turn, but I think its an interesting discussion...
Personally, I wouldnt say I am "anti turbo", but I do recognize the value of the reliability of a stock setup. Unfortunately, the "go fast" crack pipe is strong, so injecting a lot more power is tempting for many.
Im not a big fan of NA engine builds either really b/c in a way, *to me* they make the car not an NSX. Thats psychological I know, but once you've bored out the cylinders, change the cams, etc., it just seems like a different car.
Turbos, I feel, also change the characteristic of the car but in a more real world way. Im just not sure the dynamics of a turbo is the right match for the character of the NSX.
Personally, I think an SC is perfect. The torque/hp curve stays pretty much the same. The base motor remains unchanged as do its performance characteristics, but with a reasonable injection of power. If you stick with 6lbs, I think reliability isnt really sacrificed either.
But this is highly subjective. For me, the performance of a 6lb CTSC, given how light the NSX is, puts the car in the *perfect" spot power wise (roughly 325-350Rwhp). For folks who desire much bigger gains, you clearly "out grow" the SC setup.
Personally, I wouldnt say I am "anti turbo", but I do recognize the value of the reliability of a stock setup. Unfortunately, the "go fast" crack pipe is strong, so injecting a lot more power is tempting for many.
Im not a big fan of NA engine builds either really b/c in a way, *to me* they make the car not an NSX. Thats psychological I know, but once you've bored out the cylinders, change the cams, etc., it just seems like a different car.
Turbos, I feel, also change the characteristic of the car but in a more real world way. Im just not sure the dynamics of a turbo is the right match for the character of the NSX.
Personally, I think an SC is perfect. The torque/hp curve stays pretty much the same. The base motor remains unchanged as do its performance characteristics, but with a reasonable injection of power. If you stick with 6lbs, I think reliability isnt really sacrificed either.
But this is highly subjective. For me, the performance of a 6lb CTSC, given how light the NSX is, puts the car in the *perfect" spot power wise (roughly 325-350Rwhp). For folks who desire much bigger gains, you clearly "out grow" the SC setup.
Spooky
I see what you mean- there is a little nsx prime death match going on :tongue:
Thank you for your input. Can you describe how the turbo would be in deference to the character of the nsx?
I see the sos set up with aftercooler and its looks fine, though there seems to be 50 more rwt and rwhp to be had my buying the same 'level' of turbo kit. (going by the dyno posts i've seen posted on prime) I always said if i wanted a turbo car i'd buy a twin turbo supra, but it seems that a turbo nsx is a different animal to that altogether......
Also owners have stated that it just feels like vtec....but more, with the turbo boost.
I really like the idea of a larger engine, but for me in Ireland, I would have to purchase a seperate engine and ship it (or source locally) to john martin or SOS, to have it build and mapped and sent back. I don't imagine that would be cheap.....
also....i DID mean to post the title of this thread as 'anyone anti FI nsx?' I was thinking turbo at the time and my fingers took over....
Thanks
Jamie
I see what you mean- there is a little nsx prime death match going on :tongue:
Thank you for your input. Can you describe how the turbo would be in deference to the character of the nsx?
I see the sos set up with aftercooler and its looks fine, though there seems to be 50 more rwt and rwhp to be had my buying the same 'level' of turbo kit. (going by the dyno posts i've seen posted on prime) I always said if i wanted a turbo car i'd buy a twin turbo supra, but it seems that a turbo nsx is a different animal to that altogether......
Also owners have stated that it just feels like vtec....but more, with the turbo boost.
I really like the idea of a larger engine, but for me in Ireland, I would have to purchase a seperate engine and ship it (or source locally) to john martin or SOS, to have it build and mapped and sent back. I don't imagine that would be cheap.....
also....i DID mean to post the title of this thread as 'anyone anti FI nsx?' I was thinking turbo at the time and my fingers took over....
Thanks
Jamie
CAVEAT here is that I have NOT experienced a turbo NSX so take that for what it is.
So Ill just describe what I think the NSX needs to have... Simply linear power delivery.
To me, the design concept of the NSX was NA very specifically because a linear power curve was desired (actually, Im pretty sure that is a stated fact)
Similar to the V8 Ferraris, the NSX was really designed to be a smooth delivering, high reving, NA platform.
So of course the built NA is the most logical way to add power and stick with the original design principal. It's just that TO ME, the NSX came with a 3.0 and then with a 3.2 so a 3.8 just isnt an NSX. That will seem silly to some (many?). Its just "one of those things" I guess Ive always drawn the line at "bolt ons" and I consider a supercharger a "bolt on"
Now my perception of turbo systems is that you always have some kind of turbo lag where there is no real gain up to a certain RPM level and them BAM, a big rush of power.
Twin screw superchargers (like the CTSC) deliver power pretty much across the entire band and produce a pretty close to NA experience.
Of course it is possible that there are turbo systems out there for the NSX that are genuinely lag free and behave exactly the same as a SC but just produce more HP.
Ive spent some time in 996 TTs and that is the best turbo I personally have ever experienced. There was DAMN close to no real lag in that thing by my perception. So a system that matched or exceeded the 911TT would be something I'd look at. Anything that has more noticeable turbo lag would be what I mean by "not fitting the character" of the NSX.
So Ill just describe what I think the NSX needs to have... Simply linear power delivery.
To me, the design concept of the NSX was NA very specifically because a linear power curve was desired (actually, Im pretty sure that is a stated fact)
Similar to the V8 Ferraris, the NSX was really designed to be a smooth delivering, high reving, NA platform.
So of course the built NA is the most logical way to add power and stick with the original design principal. It's just that TO ME, the NSX came with a 3.0 and then with a 3.2 so a 3.8 just isnt an NSX. That will seem silly to some (many?). Its just "one of those things" I guess Ive always drawn the line at "bolt ons" and I consider a supercharger a "bolt on"
Now my perception of turbo systems is that you always have some kind of turbo lag where there is no real gain up to a certain RPM level and them BAM, a big rush of power.
Twin screw superchargers (like the CTSC) deliver power pretty much across the entire band and produce a pretty close to NA experience.
Of course it is possible that there are turbo systems out there for the NSX that are genuinely lag free and behave exactly the same as a SC but just produce more HP.
Ive spent some time in 996 TTs and that is the best turbo I personally have ever experienced. There was DAMN close to no real lag in that thing by my perception. So a system that matched or exceeded the 911TT would be something I'd look at. Anything that has more noticeable turbo lag would be what I mean by "not fitting the character" of the NSX.
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