I agree. Knowing what I know now.. I should have capitalized on the fear and bought a CTSC'ed NSX from the get go. I think the progression from NA to FI is a fun journey but the $$ saved would have been nice.
Any downsides to Comptech Supercharger......
- Thread starter HockeyGoalie
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When buying a used car, just take it to a shop to conduct a compression/leak down test. That will tell a lot.
At the end of the day it's all about doing proper mods and in the proper sequence.
Not enough $$$$? consider a new career and/or saving it up.
At the end of the day it's all about doing proper mods and in the proper sequence.
Not enough $$$$? consider a new career and/or saving it up.
I find it funny how so many people post in the "nsx wanted" section and 99% want a stock car. To me the biggest bargains are in cars that are modified well. You can save a TON of money over doing it yourself anyway. Not every mod is bad, installed wrong, or cheap and crappy.
To get a car that has downforce FIA carbon NSX-R seats, a CTSC, a KW V3 or similar, some nice headers and a nice exhaust, something like a VRH kit, type R shifter, etc... why would you NOT want these mods at a fraction of the cost?
I can see some things not being as appealing... wheels for example are personal taste... a cheap coilover that rides bad.. some home made exhaust, or some super fancy stereo cut into the car and dash. Blingy lights and cheap LED strips glued on some place. But the good mods that clearly improve the car? I'll take that any day. And if I was posting an ad for an NSX to buy, I would never say "must be stock". I would say "send me the specs of what you have" and I would decide on my own if the owner is a mature person that took care of the car and did the right mods or some high school kid strapped for cash making aero parts from home depot parts.
I almost bought RyanITV's car for those that remember, a HEAVILY modified white NSX-R clone with supercharger, seats, and a ton of other goodies. It went for 80K or so, barely more than a stock one would and it was clearly a well taken care of car. I would also MUCH rather buy a car from a long time prime member than someone I don't know at all. If someone bought my car, my entire history of mods, driving habits, maintenance, even my personality is fully documented here on prime from day 1. Everyone here knows I am not some clown asking how to do better donuts in a parking lot.
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I agree 500%.. I tell my wife I would love to get one that someone else has already invested in coil overs, nice wheels, and at least exhaust on so that I don't have to. I really want a '02+ because I like the OEM HID system and slight visual upgrades... but a pre-'02 with the face lift is always nice too. And thats just to name a very few things.
so if you have a na2 you dont need headers? or its best with a ct headers also
also if you run the low boost do you need gauges and stuff like that
also if you run the low boost do you need gauges and stuff like that
Gains with headers on na2 cars are so small. It's probably not worth the money.
Gauges are always good to keep an eye on the motor with but the basic CTSC is very simple and doesn't require any tuning at all, it runs slightly on the rich safe side. After an install and a basic dyno and AFR check you really don't NEED any gauges, although it doesn't hurt to have them for extra safety. Systems like the SOS supercharger or turbos that use aftermarket engine management and tuning... You really should have gauges. I would.
And yeah the gain on an NA2 with headers is marginal. It's still 5-10 HP with the right header possibly, especially with a really free flowing exhaust, but the NA2 header is pretty good.
And yeah the gain on an NA2 with headers is marginal. It's still 5-10 HP with the right header possibly, especially with a really free flowing exhaust, but the NA2 header is pretty good.
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I'll share my experiences with the CTSC, with the caveat that obviously these will not apply universally...
My car has 80k on it now and the SC was removed around 75k. As far as I can tell the car was supercharged for most of its life before it got to me, probably by the original or 2nd owner (I am the 5th).
Three drawbacks that I experienced:
1) A shoddy install job (again YMMV). In this case the electrical work was not up to par: the CTSC booster circuit was connected by cutting and splicing the ECU wire harness instead of being connected with a piggyback harness as recommended by CT - so even post-removal now there is unnecessary cold joints covered in electrical tape on my ECU wire harness. Unfortunately to replace the harness, the part alone is over $2k new and it's apparently major surgery to run all the connections from the ECU to the right places in the engine bay... so I'm stuck with a mangled wire harness it seems.
2) Incomplete removal. When the CTSC was removed, the extended alternator output wire was not removed, and upon re-installation of the stock intake manifold was pinched under the manifold. Frayed and started shorting out the car under heavy vibration (i.e. during WOT acceleration)... 10+ hours of labor (at $125/hr) to track that one down.
3) Weakened head gasket. I'm told the OEM NA1 head gasket is not really up to the task of being supercharged, and my experience certainly reflects that. When I had an unrelated problem with my cooling system (hose clamp out of place), the head gasket blew *immediately* upon overheat - I'm told it usually takes a bit more than this to blow them but because mine had been weakened by the supercharger the new overheat just "finished it off." I'm not sure if the previous owners were running standard or high boost, so this may only be true if you change out the pulley...
Are any of these reasons not to get a CTSC if you want reliable, CARB-legal power added to your car? No, of course not. Just be aware that you are complexifying the car beyond its original design and accept the risks inherent in that.
I'm honestly drawn to some of the turbo systems because they seem to require less rearranging/slicing/dicing of the engine bay. I've seen turbo'd NSXs whose engine bay looks totally stock... love the stealth system.
My car has 80k on it now and the SC was removed around 75k. As far as I can tell the car was supercharged for most of its life before it got to me, probably by the original or 2nd owner (I am the 5th).
Three drawbacks that I experienced:
1) A shoddy install job (again YMMV). In this case the electrical work was not up to par: the CTSC booster circuit was connected by cutting and splicing the ECU wire harness instead of being connected with a piggyback harness as recommended by CT - so even post-removal now there is unnecessary cold joints covered in electrical tape on my ECU wire harness. Unfortunately to replace the harness, the part alone is over $2k new and it's apparently major surgery to run all the connections from the ECU to the right places in the engine bay... so I'm stuck with a mangled wire harness it seems.
2) Incomplete removal. When the CTSC was removed, the extended alternator output wire was not removed, and upon re-installation of the stock intake manifold was pinched under the manifold. Frayed and started shorting out the car under heavy vibration (i.e. during WOT acceleration)... 10+ hours of labor (at $125/hr) to track that one down.
3) Weakened head gasket. I'm told the OEM NA1 head gasket is not really up to the task of being supercharged, and my experience certainly reflects that. When I had an unrelated problem with my cooling system (hose clamp out of place), the head gasket blew *immediately* upon overheat - I'm told it usually takes a bit more than this to blow them but because mine had been weakened by the supercharger the new overheat just "finished it off." I'm not sure if the previous owners were running standard or high boost, so this may only be true if you change out the pulley...
Are any of these reasons not to get a CTSC if you want reliable, CARB-legal power added to your car? No, of course not. Just be aware that you are complexifying the car beyond its original design and accept the risks inherent in that.
I'm honestly drawn to some of the turbo systems because they seem to require less rearranging/slicing/dicing of the engine bay. I've seen turbo'd NSXs whose engine bay looks totally stock... love the stealth system.
You bought a car with a shoddy install job and a shoddy removal job on the CTSC, clearly.... It's sad and I am sorry you had to go through that but I am not sure the CTSC is in any way at fault for your issues. Obviously, installation matters.
As fas as a turbo requiring less "rearranging/slicing/dicing", that is just not an accurate statement. The CTSC is practically a bolt-on/bolt-off system. It doesn't require fabrication of anything or cutting of of anything. A turbo is Far far more complex as at minimum it requires the extras of engine management, fuel injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, heat exchanger, pumps and plumbing and tuning. The entire exhaust system must be rebuilt, wastegates, blowoff valves, etc.
The system you refer to as "stealth" was probably david Dozier's brilliant system but that is definitely not less complex than a CTSC.
As fas as a turbo requiring less "rearranging/slicing/dicing", that is just not an accurate statement. The CTSC is practically a bolt-on/bolt-off system. It doesn't require fabrication of anything or cutting of of anything. A turbo is Far far more complex as at minimum it requires the extras of engine management, fuel injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, heat exchanger, pumps and plumbing and tuning. The entire exhaust system must be rebuilt, wastegates, blowoff valves, etc.
The system you refer to as "stealth" was probably david Dozier's brilliant system but that is definitely not less complex than a CTSC.
The thread is any downsides to a Ctsc, not any downsides to removing one. :biggrin:
As for turbo, I would say there are many more turbo horror stories than comptech ones on the forum.
My opinion, if you get either done right they are excellent choices.
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I was thinking of DDozier's and some other systems I have seen, particularly AP-X ones, that look stock. As opposed to the CTSC which is very visible as soon as you pop the hatch.
My point was that despite the "bolt-on" nature of the CTSC, it's still one of the more complex mods you can do (compared to, say, an exhaust) so, yes - installation matters. Do it yourself if you feel comfortable, but otherwise get it done by someone who has done many before. Ditto on removal and maintenance of the system.
The only one where I can conclusively point to the CTSC as the issue is the head gasket, but I'm not sure whether that's only an issue in high-boost vs. standard pulley CTSC setups.
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Well, if it had never been removed, I never would have found the hack job on the ECU wire harness... and lived on in blissful ignorance.
Head gasket would still have popped from a shoddy hose job though.
1. I have seen some pretty crappy looking apx installs and more than a few engine failures.
2. The head gasket is 91-96 cars is a weak point regardless of which way you go.
CTSC is complex compared to changing an exhaust, yes. But not compared to a turbo or other SC systems. It is in fact, the SIMPLEST forced induction system for the NSX.
On the head gasket... Yeah it probably was going to go and the extra boost accelerated the process. These are things that can be avoided with a good install. FI is not for most DIY'ers who are trying to save a buck for sure.
How do you avoid head gasket failures with a good install? Pushed hard, they will fail on na1 cars. Maybe not overnight, but much sooner than na2 ones.
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You do it by inspecting the gasket and re-torquing on all of the Head bolts. A good installer should know that this may be a weak area. On an older car perhaps he should recommend a headgasket change. Head bolts contract and expand and loosen over time. Proper torque is critical. This is all up to the installer.
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I'm sure you have. Here in CA there is extra incentive to keep it looking as stock/stealth as possible in order to pass the visual inspection for smog, so people put in the effort. Hollowed out stock airbox etc...
If you're going to open the engine up anyway, install stronger head gasket and studs. The labor is free and the parts are pretty cheap for the peace of mind... heck, mine has beefed up HG and studs now even though I never plan to go FI.
Are you running any headers turbo ?
The CTSC is completely legal in CA and CARB certified, the only FI system for the NSX that is 50 state legal. So no need to hide anything and you can let the blower show as much as you want.
Also I am not sure what you mean by "open the engine anyway", that's not a normal part of any CTSC installation but I would always make sure a head gasket is in good shape with any sort of FI. It's good that you did the upgrade anyway.
Yes, it's in my signature. :wink:
I have the GT-One F1 header. I did want to change it though. It is the best header for NA and sound. I just haven't found a good high quality titanium one with larger diameter piping yet. Cody was going to build me one but never got around to it. Now I don't care as much it's a lot of work to go through for a very small (if any) gain in HP.
You dyno your car yet , if so how much power you making?
Let's not hijack the thread too much but 5 different dynos showed 5 different numbers. I had 318, 347, 350 something, 375 and 389 if I remember right. The dyno at the shop I had my CTSC installed read 250 stock and 361 after CTSC, DF intake tube and uni filter, GT1 headers, and GT1 exhaust. Realistically I'm probably around 350-360.
Just go turbo. The downsides are possibly blowing motor, over boosting, retune based on weather lol..... But I still love the turbo. The ctsc is basically bullet proof. Just don't over fill it. I was running 349 whp on a whipple
Haven't you had a lot if issues getting your apx kit to work right? I think I recall many threads on it.
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I too wouldn't have it any other way.I bought my car because of all the Comptech Goodies that were installed on the car, when it was brand new.The extra HP and Mild Whining of the Super Charger is just what I was looking for.Car is as Fast or Faster than a 97 Porsche 993 Twin Turbo I recently sold.Twin Turbo was 408 HP
Here is the Dyno Sheet From Shad at Driving Ambition that was done when the car was new and Parts were installed in 2006. 373.7 HP. Not sure if that is Rear Wheel or Fly Wheel HP. CT Chart shows it as Rear Wheel HP and says add 10-13% for Fly Wheel HP
Here is a Dyno Chart from CT Engineering
http://www.ct-engineering.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=iFtcEf-5TD4=&tabid=861
Here is the Dyno Sheet From Shad at Driving Ambition that was done when the car was new and Parts were installed in 2006. 373.7 HP. Not sure if that is Rear Wheel or Fly Wheel HP. CT Chart shows it as Rear Wheel HP and says add 10-13% for Fly Wheel HP
Here is a Dyno Chart from CT Engineering
http://www.ct-engineering.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=iFtcEf-5TD4=&tabid=861
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