Am I crazy or... JH4NA2160WT000166

enkrypt3d

enkrypt3d

Legendary Member
Joined
27 June 2003
Messages
4,618
Just too picky? OK I went to look at this car:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=74

Here is what I found out about this car...

The whole front bumper has been replaced due to the previous owner hitting a deer. Every body panel has some sort of paint blemish. But I'm guessing this is normal for a car thats almost 9 years old.

It has 82K miles on it.

Upon starting the car, it wouldn't start. So the dealer had to jump the car to get it to start. (first strange event) bad battery I hope?

Then the engine was giving some strange vibrations that u could feel in the drivers seat which concerned me.

The carpet in the trunk smelled of mold which needs to be replaced and the molding around the trunk needs to be replaced. Looks like it had leaked in the past.

Theres no jack or air compressor. Only a Tire Iron and a screw driver.

The drivers side speaker didn't work. They claimed it was because they took the drivers side door panel off and probably didn't reconnect it... weird. They didn't really specify why they took it off to begin with.

They said the latch that is on the drivers side door was loose so maybe thats why it was opened up?

The frame around AC vents at the top of the center console was busted and the vents on the passenger side on the side of the dash (where the door meets the vents) was loose...

The tires were miss-matched and needed an alignment pretty severely.

The glass over the engine wouldn't close without having to really close it hard. Same thing for the trunk lid.

The drivers side door didn't properly line up with the rear drivers side fender....

Also, the timing belt service has not been performed. I called the local Acura dealer and they said the clutch has been replaced at 30K miles?? wtf

Thats all I can remember. The original price is $36.9K. I talked them down to $35.8K. Is this a good deal considering the amount of work that needs to be done to get this car right?

Or am I being paranoid and too picky? I figure now is the time to be picky if any... PLEASE help I'm not in town for much longer and need to make a decision.

THANKS!
 
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Re: Am I crazy or...

If the car was daily driven than door dings are going to be tough to get around.

the engine cover and trunk lid should be set down then pushed by hand till they latch..sounds like the closure is normal.

The door speaker?..who knows..but I do know that the speaker does not come out when removing the panel..so that sounds like a load of salesman crap to me.

tires and alignment are not uncommon the be an issue when buying an 80k mile used car.

I am not sure how many NSXs you have sat in while running, but some vibration in the seat is normal, you will need someone that is very familiar with these cars to tell you if this car has excess vibration.

tail lamps are very common leakers on Honda products.

the price sounds reasonable to me, but I haven't seen the car in person.

You need to get it inspected by a shop that knows these cars.
 
move'on...

The 'deer' incident might've been more serious than initially indicated. I'd get an Acura body shop to inspect it. What's the CarFax say? Also, what's the status of the title (salvage? wreck? accidents?)... :confused:

The asking price is quite attractive for a NA2 NSX, but w/ all the minor issues- you might be better off spending a bit more for a sans' "accident", problem-free, well-maintained NSX.

I'd pass on this NSX unless I knew the full extent of the 'deer' incident damage(s) and/or the price was $27.5k-$29k. Relatively high-miles, accident history, improper repair(s), and subtle problems arising diminish the value, IMHO.

Good luck in your ongoing search. :cool:
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

I am a car dealer in the Fort Laid area, and here is my scope. When a dealer is selling a car for way to cheap there is a reason, ALL dealers know what the cars they buy are worth, there is NEVER such a thing as we buy cheap and sell cheap, if they buy cheap they bought the wrong car PERIOD.

At auction the sellers know what the car is worth and if it gets bid to low the seller does not sell, just waits for another week.

BTW here is a copy of ALL the auction sales for 1998 NSX at Manheim Auto Auctions, the BIGGEST auction house in the country..

05/09/06 BALTWASH Lease $28,200 56,272 Above SILVER 6G 6 No
05/12/05 BAY CITI Regular $36,000 72,560 Above WHITE 6G M Yes
03/10/05 MANHEIM Regular $37,300 65,299 Above YELLOW 6G Yes
12/09/04 RIVRSIDE Regular $38,250 74,014 Above RED 6G M Yes
11/18/04 MANHEIM Regular $42,200 20,177 Above RED 6G 6 Yes
10/21/04 MANHEIM Regular $38,000 43,275 Above RED 6G 6 Yes

Keep in mind that some sales were in 2004, however these are ALL the sales on ALL the 98 NSX that went through the auction...

My .02 cents worth...

NSamX
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

Is it my imagination or does the rear of the car seem like it's too high? It doesn't look right to me, especially when viewing the pictures of the side profile of the car. . . .
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

The Azz end does look odd? I see daylight?
Could it be the angle?
Rule of thumb, if the price seems fair on a used car at a dealership
there is something wrong with the car. LOL LOL
The best cars are sold private party IMO.
The very best cars trade without advertising, or one phone call
and its gone......:biggrin:
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

zahntech said:
If the car was daily driven than door dings are going to be tough to get around.

the engine cover and trunk lid should be set down then pushed by hand till they latch..sounds like the closure is normal.

The door speaker?..who knows..but I do know that the speaker does not come out when removing the panel..so that sounds like a load of salesman crap to me.

tires and alignment are not uncommon the be an issue when buying an 80k mile used car.

I am not sure how many NSXs you have sat in while running, but some vibration in the seat is normal, you will need someone that is very familiar with these cars to tell you if this car has excess vibration.

tail lamps are very common leakers on Honda products.

the price sounds reasonable to me, but I haven't seen the car in person.

You need to get it inspected by a shop that knows these cars.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply... Yea I used to own a 1991 NSX a few years ago. And when I was looking to buy that one, i sat in several that had the same problem... as soon as you start the engine, you could feel low frequency vibrations in your butt / back... and its not the regular 'good' engine vibes... talking about it feels like the engine is "loabing"..... as if the crankshaft has a few extra pounds in the wrong places... maybe it just needs a timing belt and a tune up?
 
Re: move'on...

Osiris_x11 said:
The 'deer' incident might've been more serious than initially indicated. I'd get an Acura body shop to inspect it. What's the CarFax say? Also, what's the status of the title (salvage? wreck? accidents?)... :confused:

The asking price is quite attractive for a NA2 NSX, but w/ all the minor issues- you might be better off spending a bit more for a sans' "accident", problem-free, well-maintained NSX.

I'd pass on this NSX unless I knew the full extent of the 'deer' incident damage(s) and/or the price was $27.5k-$29k. Relatively high-miles, accident history, improper repair(s), and subtle problems arising diminish the value, IMHO.

Good luck in your ongoing search. :cool:
Click to expand...

Hey man thanks for the insight... yes I called the local acura dealer and wanted to see about getting an inspection done.... they said they couldn't do it today and I fly back to LA monday morning. I spoke to the guy in the service dept and he said the latest service was a replaced O2 sensor. He also said the clutch had been replaced at 30K miles... I find that to be a little too early to replace a clutch....

The guy at the dealership was very helpful in telling me everything he knew about the car.... he told me the entire front bumper (bumper / the part under the bumper and the chin spoiler) has been replaced. Also the skirts on the driver side have been replaced. The side skirts on the other side have been curbed which isnt noticeable until you get on the ground and look at it from below.

Also the carfax is clean.. only 2 records reported from 1998 that says the car was purchased with 1 owner... some baseball player... the title is clean too from what the sales guy says. I haven't personally seen it.

I'm just being as discriptive as possible... but it might sound like its worse than it really is... Of course it sounds like a nightmare but the car does look good when you walk up to it and get in it and drive it... of course im being as picky as possible, but if someone were to fix the issues with it, i think it could sell for $42k or more... which tells me this is a good deal just a fixer uper type thing no?
 
Last edited:
Re: Am I crazy or...

MCM said:
The Azz end does look odd? I see daylight?
Could it be the angle?
Rule of thumb, if the price seems fair on a used car at a dealership
there is something wrong with the car. LOL LOL
The best cars are sold private party IMO.
The very best cars trade without advertising, or one phone call
and its gone......:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Its sitting on a hill.. The rear left wheel on the car is sitting on a steep slope... that would explain the rear end looking weird... I didnt notice anything odd about this car when I looked at it... I was looking at this thing top to bottom.. :)
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

NSamX said:
I am a car dealer in the Fort Laid area, and here is my scope. When a dealer is selling a car for way to cheap there is a reason, ALL dealers know what the cars they buy are worth, there is NEVER such a thing as we buy cheap and sell cheap, if they buy cheap they bought the wrong car PERIOD.

At auction the sellers know what the car is worth and if it gets bid to low the seller does not sell, just waits for another week.

BTW here is a copy of ALL the auction sales for 1998 NSX at Manheim Auto Auctions, the BIGGEST auction house in the country..

05/09/06 BALTWASH Lease $28,200 56,272 Above SILVER 6G 6 No
05/12/05 BAY CITI Regular $36,000 72,560 Above WHITE 6G M Yes
03/10/05 MANHEIM Regular $37,300 65,299 Above YELLOW 6G Yes
12/09/04 RIVRSIDE Regular $38,250 74,014 Above RED 6G M Yes
11/18/04 MANHEIM Regular $42,200 20,177 Above RED 6G 6 Yes
10/21/04 MANHEIM Regular $38,000 43,275 Above RED 6G 6 Yes

Keep in mind that some sales were in 2004, however these are ALL the sales on ALL the 98 NSX that went through the auction...

My .02 cents worth...

NSamX
Click to expand...

Yes I was talking to the guy and he said they spent $35 on it... Thats what I was willing to pay so thats why they wouldn't come down to what I was asking for. Of course I know he could be feeding me a line of BS...

Told him that I was also looking at a 98 for $33K (which was sold but I didn't tell him that) and he said "then you should buy that one" im like uh dude? do u not want to sell this car? He said that they're going to try and sell it at auction *again*..... which means its already been thru the whole auction process at least once.
 
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Re: Am I crazy or...

CL65 Captain said:
Too high a mileage for $42k, even with everything fixed up.
Click to expand...

Not that I would try to sell it.... the point of me buying one in the first place is to keep it!

The point is, the car would be worth more than $35.8K after all the issues were taken care of..
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

enkrypt3d said:
Thanks for the reply... Yea I used to own a 1991 NSX a few years ago. And when I was looking to buy that one, i sat in several that had the same problem... as soon as you start the engine, you could feel low frequency vibrations in your butt / back... and its not the regular 'good' engine vibes... talking about it feels like the engine is "loabing"..... as if the crankshaft has a few extra pounds in the wrong places... maybe it just needs a timing belt and a tune up?
Click to expand...

In 9 years time I would bet that the rear beam has been out of the car at some point (headers, engine-out service, etc). I'm no expert but it's possible that the bolt connecting the rear beam to the engine mount was not installed perfectly. That could be a cause for irregular vibrations. I just had headers put in my '95 and when I picked the car up it had developed a nasty little vibration between 1000-2500rpm. I've been told by an "expert" who shall remain nameless :wink: that this is most likely the culprit. He advised me to remove the bolt, rev the engine a little, then reinsert.




Good luck with the decision. It sounds like a bit of work ahead of you if you decide to buy but I find diy'ing jobs on the NSX is a very satisfying passtime.
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

enkrypt3d said:
Told him that I was also looking at a 98 for $33K (which was sold but I didn't tell him that) and he said "then you should buy that one" im like uh dude? do u not want to sell this car?
Click to expand...

Sure, he wants to sell it...just not at 33k.

I'd stay away from the "too good to be true" NSX deals - there are way too many people getting burned this way and then demonizing the car afterwards from buyer remorse. Wait to buy the car that won't cost you a fortune afterwards. It's worth it.

To add to what Michael stated, that vibration may be a busted engine mount...
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

MLmotorsport said:
In 9 years time I would bet that the rear beam has been out of the car at some point (headers, engine-out service, etc). I'm no expert but it's possible that the bolt connecting the rear beam to the engine mount was not installed perfectly. That could be a cause for irregular vibrations. I just had headers put in my '95 and when I picked the car up it had developed a nasty little vibration between 1000-2500rpm. I've been told by an "expert" who shall remain nameless :wink: that this is most likely the culprit. He advised me to remove the bolt, rev the engine a little, then reinsert.




Good luck with the decision. It sounds like a bit of work ahead of you if you decide to buy but I find diy'ing jobs on the NSX is a very satisfying passtime.
Click to expand...

Hmmm thats interesting... he didn't say anything about anything about the engine... would this ever become loose for any reason? Unless they're not telling me something....

Remember this is a small dealership ... so i can understand why they won't come off the price any more....
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

NSamX said:
05/09/06 BALTWASH Lease $28,200 56,272 Above SILVER 6G 6 No
05/12/05 BAY CITI Regular $36,000 72,560 Above WHITE 6G M Yes
03/10/05 MANHEIM Regular $37,300 65,299 Above YELLOW 6G Yes
12/09/04 RIVRSIDE Regular $38,250 74,014 Above RED 6G M Yes
11/18/04 MANHEIM Regular $42,200 20,177 Above RED 6G 6 Yes
10/21/04 MANHEIM Regular $38,000 43,275 Above RED 6G 6 Yes
NSamX
Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this a bit? what years were these cars? and whats the "6G M Yes" stuff mean? thx
 
enkrypt3d said:
The carpet in the trunk smelled of mold which needs to be replaced and the molding around the trunk needs to be replaced. Looks like it had leaked in the past.
Click to expand...
The trunk on the NSX is typically very air-tight. Funny how I've dealt with many of these issues on my cars. :frown:
Any water that gets in (via tail lamps, shampoo/cleaning etc) won't get out unless it's left open and completely dried out before closing. You might be able to save the carpet if you remove everything, shampoo/extract the carpet and possibly wipe the tub w/ a light bleach mixture.

Theres no jack or air compressor. Only a Tire Iron and a screw driver.
Click to expand...
Tool sets w/ compressors periodically come up on the for sale froums here. $200 should get you everything you need if it's important to you.

The drivers side speaker didn't work. They claimed it was because they took the drivers side door panel off and probably didn't reconnect it... weird. They didn't really specify why they took it off to begin with.
Click to expand...
could be the typical blown amp but worst case you'll need a "new" unit.

They said the latch that is on the drivers side door was loose so maybe thats why it was opened up?
Click to expand...
Possibly why it's not lining up correctly?

The frame around AC vents at the top of the center console was busted and the vents on the passenger side on the side of the dash (where the door meets the vents) was loose...
Click to expand...
Center console dmg likely from someone not knowing how to correctly remove the thing. Again - these come up for sale at times in the for sale forum.
If the door vent you are talking about is the "finned" one that directs air from the dash through to the door vents - The philips screws (top and bottom) can easily be overtightened cracking aged plastic. Pita - I suppose these may be available through parts but I've never seen these for sale.

The tires were miss-matched and needed an alignment pretty severely.
Click to expand...
Clueless former owner and a dealership not willing to invest in making it right.

The drivers side door didn't properly line up with the rear drivers side fender....
Click to expand...
Possibly from that loose latch?

Also, the timing belt service has not been performed. I called the local Acura dealer and they said the clutch has been replaced at 30K miles?? wtf
Click to expand...
Some forum members have smoked the clutch much quicker than that. :wink: The earliest I've heard of is 5k miles. (But no, you should expect much more than 30k miles out of a clutch if used properly)

Sorry if I've repeated any answers but I find myself rubbing my hands together just thinking about jumping into these fixes and DIY's taking something not-so-perfect and reviving it. Fun stuff! :biggrin:

Regarding the vibration and the dealership not knowing about the engine - I've been here for years and only recently heard about the vibration thing. I guess I had heard of loosening the mounts, revving, then retightening, but it didn't even cross my mind that a mount could be the cause until a very experienced tech told me what it likely was. I'm certainly not writing the vibration off as a mount problem - but giving you some options - and a best-case fix. I would recommend having someone with serious experience look at some of these issues before buying.
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

enkrypt3d said:
Can you elaborate on this a bit? what years were these cars? and whats the "6G M Yes" stuff mean? thx
Click to expand...

6 = Cylendars
G = Gas engine
M = Manual trans
 
Re: Am I crazy or...

MLmotorsport said:
6 = Cylendars
G = Gas engine
M = Manual trans
Click to expand...

Ah got it.. nvm thx!
 
Last edited:
MLmotorsport said:
The trunk on the NSX is typically very air-tight. Funny how I've dealt with many of these issues on my cars. :frown:
Any water that gets in (via tail lamps, shampoo/cleaning etc) won't get out unless it's left open and completely dried out before closing. You might be able to save the carpet if you remove everything, shampoo/extract the carpet and possibly wipe the tub w/ a light bleach mixture.


Tool sets w/ compressors periodically come up on the for sale froums here. $200 should get you everything you need if it's important to you.


could be the typical blown amp but worst case you'll need a "new" unit.


Possibly why it's not lining up correctly?


Center console dmg likely from someone not knowing how to correctly remove the thing. Again - these come up for sale at times in the for sale forum.
If the door vent you are talking about is the "finned" one that directs air from the dash through to the door vents - The philips screws (top and bottom) can easily be overtightened cracking aged plastic. Pita - I suppose these may be available through parts but I've never seen these for sale.


Clueless former owner and a dealership not willing to invest in making it right.


Possibly from that loose latch?


Some forum members have smoked the clutch much quicker than that. :wink: The earliest I've heard of is 5k miles. (But no, you should expect much more than 30k miles out of a clutch if used properly)

Sorry if I've repeated any answers but I find myself rubbing my hands together just thinking about jumping into these fixes and DIY's taking something not-so-perfect and reviving it. Fun stuff! :biggrin:

Regarding the vibration and the dealership not knowing about the engine - I've been here for years and only recently heard about the vibration thing. I guess I had heard of loosening the mounts, revving, then retightening, but it didn't even cross my mind that a mount could be the cause until a very experienced tech told me what it likely was. I'm certainly not writing the vibration off as a mount problem - but giving you some options - and a best-case fix. I would recommend having someone with serious experience look at some of these issues before buying.
Click to expand...

heh thanks for the serious evaluation... yea what I meant by the drivers side latch is the inside latch that meets with the inner door jam... there was a gash just below the small 2.5" bolt type thing that the door latch attaches to. Someone had shut the door and one of the 3 hex screws on the inside of the door that holds the latch in place made the gash i think...

the door closes completely but maybe it just needs to be adjusted?

Also about the trunk, the rubber molding around the inside of the trunk was ripped and had holes all in it near the trunk latch... plenty of space for water to get thru... he said someone had tried to get into the trunk by prying something underneath the trunk lid... but they have since fixed any of the damage (not including the molding)

Yea the vent isnt broken it just needs to be glued I suppose... I didnt see any cracks in the vents on the side of the passenger side dash....
 

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