All Wheel Steering 96' NSX Build
- Thread starter dozerdawg
- Start date
Well here is something new 
I remember this in my friends mid-90s Honda Prelude. It used to be called 4WS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering#Active_four-wheel_steering
Very ambitious en devour but I don't think it'll work as well in a MR car as it does in a FF car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steering#Active_four-wheel_steering
Very ambitious en devour but I don't think it'll work as well in a MR car as it does in a FF car.
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Very interesting. I'm curious now and want to see more. :biggrin:
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Shouldn't the rears be turning in the opposite direction to the fronts at low/no speed??
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Sounds like a lot of money on something that turns quite well already.
Interesting project, I give an A for effort. I remember the 3000GT/Stealth featuring an AWS option on some models, but I believe the degree of steering varied according to vehicle speed. I always wondered how well it worked as I never got to try one myself.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9c9dxEnYh3Y?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9c9dxEnYh3Y?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I see huge handling issues as the rear wheel geometry appears to be reversed. Refer to the AWS diagram above and note that, in fact, the wheels are angled in reverse.
shawn110975
Suspended
at speeds under 25mph the wheels turn the opposite way from the front
at speeds above that they turn the same as the front.
so this guy is gonna go test his NON ridgid 96 targa
and is gonna twist his frame LOL bye bye NSX
or if it doesnt twist the frame if he gets up to a certain speed his car is gonna spin out of control. since he has the 4WS rack setup backwards
A+ for effort show me a video of it driving.
on a straight line it would work but as soon as he turned that wheel a little bit it gonna sling the rear end out from him and then the cool spin out will occur
at speeds above that they turn the same as the front.
so this guy is gonna go test his NON ridgid 96 targa
and is gonna twist his frame LOL bye bye NSX
or if it doesnt twist the frame if he gets up to a certain speed his car is gonna spin out of control. since he has the 4WS rack setup backwards
A+ for effort show me a video of it driving.
on a straight line it would work but as soon as he turned that wheel a little bit it gonna sling the rear end out from him and then the cool spin out will occur
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I just don't like posts like this. If you are trying to do something different, then explain what you are doing, why, and how. Putting a video up like this with not a word will just get a few replies that are guesses before it fades out and is gone. If that's all you're looking for, then I guess you'll get it.
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I absolutely love 4-wheel steering. I had an 88? prelude with it and it was the coolest. I always told people (that would listen) that it is simply "technology out of control" One reason I love HONDA. I mean it didnt really seem to be necessary, but I think it really helps with parking. So, the coolest thing is when you first turn the wheel from dead straight, front and rear tires angle the same direction, but, at a certain point they go opposite of each other. So if you are at a stop and you want to show off your "technology out of control" you tun the wheel lock to lock and the rear wheels first turn same direction, then they go back straight, then opposite direction of front. That was just awesome! Sure I would love it on an NSX, but, only if it was factory. If somebody can get it set up really well on an NSX, I say COOL!
Yes, you're correct!
But again, I don't think it'll work well with the Midengine rear wheel drive layout. If not carefully thought out, the balance be off and could possibly increase oversteer tendencies.. Not to mention how will the alignment be affected (especially rear toe)?
Based on the Wikipedia article, it looks like 4WS has only been installed on Front Engine -rear wheel drive cars...
Honda's 4ws systems are much better than mazda or nissan, they were on early Prelude,from 88-91 the system is fully mechanical and maintenance free, here are the articles about it:
http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/3GPrelude/3gprelude.html
http://www.carlustblog.com/2008/08/car-lust--1988.html
92- Prelude has electrical 4ws system, good thing is it doesn't have a center shaft.
Now on RLX concept with AWD n AWS:
http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/3GPrelude/3gprelude.html
http://www.carlustblog.com/2008/08/car-lust--1988.html
92- Prelude has electrical 4ws system, good thing is it doesn't have a center shaft.
Now on RLX concept with AWD n AWS:
Attachments
I have had some experience with the AWS on my 300ZX.
Its pretty non intrusive, so its hard to notice unless you compare it to a 2WS car of similar nature. It makes quick lane changes and swerving a breeze. It will also make novice or beginner drivers quicker.
However, for experienced drivers it makes the back end feel like its going to come around on you on the track. Almost unnerving if you aren't used to it. It almost feels as if your tires are sliding, when they really aren't. Its interesting and a lot of people end up deleting if.
I don't think its a huge benefit, but its certainly a convo peice of the car.
Its pretty non intrusive, so its hard to notice unless you compare it to a 2WS car of similar nature. It makes quick lane changes and swerving a breeze. It will also make novice or beginner drivers quicker.
However, for experienced drivers it makes the back end feel like its going to come around on you on the track. Almost unnerving if you aren't used to it. It almost feels as if your tires are sliding, when they really aren't. Its interesting and a lot of people end up deleting if.
I don't think its a huge benefit, but its certainly a convo peice of the car.
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Can't imagine that is worth the effort. I know most recently Chevy and GMC offered it on their full size truck as a way to make the turning radius smaller and backing to a trailer easier but i'm pretty sure it locks at higher speeds. I really can't imagine that is going to make the car handle any better. Imagine if it was an early NA1 with no power steering!!! Wouldn't need a gym member ship any more. Any how i hope it works for them and they get what they are looking for and its safely done.
4WS is whatever. Now lets see someone make an NSX AWD. Now that would impress me.
I have oftern said that 4WS on the NSX would not be that difficult as the rear suspension is 1/2-way set up for it already.
If it were strictly for parking I maybe could see the advantage - other than that, forget it.
I figure the weight penalty is probably not worth it, nevermind the handling debate.
If it were strictly for parking I maybe could see the advantage - other than that, forget it.
I figure the weight penalty is probably not worth it, nevermind the handling debate.
Back from the dead -- I have all the parts to make this happen and need more details.
Specifically, the front sub steering angle sensor. -- this is the one thing I can see preventing a bolt-on nature with the addition of a rear crossmember mount for the 4WS unit. Ive held the unit where it should mount, and it clears! All other wiring adapts to the NSX as its the same gen as the Prelude, even the primary steering angle sensor being reused from the TCS. -- I am curious how you are fooling the 4WS ECU's requirement of the front sub-steering angle sensor. Are you simply splitting the signal for the upper SAS into the 4WS units input for the lower sub-SAS?
And before the haters hop in here and start saying this shouldn't be done, leave it alone, etc etc -- this thread is for adaptation and development of this system on our cars. If you don't like it or want it, keep your opinions to yourself. Those that have owned or driven a 4WS Prelude know the benefits. Its a personal preference for handling, just like sc vs turbo etc etc.
Rather than creating a new thread, ill likely piggyback on this one -- Time to bring this project back from the dead!
Specifically, the front sub steering angle sensor. -- this is the one thing I can see preventing a bolt-on nature with the addition of a rear crossmember mount for the 4WS unit. Ive held the unit where it should mount, and it clears! All other wiring adapts to the NSX as its the same gen as the Prelude, even the primary steering angle sensor being reused from the TCS. -- I am curious how you are fooling the 4WS ECU's requirement of the front sub-steering angle sensor. Are you simply splitting the signal for the upper SAS into the 4WS units input for the lower sub-SAS?
And before the haters hop in here and start saying this shouldn't be done, leave it alone, etc etc -- this thread is for adaptation and development of this system on our cars. If you don't like it or want it, keep your opinions to yourself. Those that have owned or driven a 4WS Prelude know the benefits. Its a personal preference for handling, just like sc vs turbo etc etc.
Rather than creating a new thread, ill likely piggyback on this one -- Time to bring this project back from the dead!
I'm surprised I missed this thread back in 2012.
Like Angus, I've also noted how the rear suspension is ideal for this setup and have toyed with the idea in the past.
The above posters with concerns on mid-engine RWS should look at how Porsche adapts it on their 911 and 918 (obviously for similar weight distributions). If it's limited to small angles (1.9 degrees each direction), then any potential system failures shouldn't be catastrophic.
Cool!
Like Angus, I've also noted how the rear suspension is ideal for this setup and have toyed with the idea in the past.
The above posters with concerns on mid-engine RWS should look at how Porsche adapts it on their 911 and 918 (obviously for similar weight distributions). If it's limited to small angles (1.9 degrees each direction), then any potential system failures shouldn't be catastrophic.
Cool!
I have a '91 Prelude 4WS.
It feels kinda weird when you first drive it but to me if feels like my NSX as far as handling. Quicker, tighter handling.
The Prelude 4WS has something like 5 deg. rear wheel deflection or something like that. Can't remember the exact number of degrees.
Cheers
nigel
It feels kinda weird when you first drive it but to me if feels like my NSX as far as handling. Quicker, tighter handling.
The Prelude 4WS has something like 5 deg. rear wheel deflection or something like that. Can't remember the exact number of degrees.
Cheers
nigel
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